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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 69792 times)

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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #1000 on: November 12, 2017, 04:39:22 pm »
+2

Another option would be to make it a Duration card, and gain cards as the next player does. Something like
Code: [Select]
At the beginning of next turn: bonus.
[hr]
While this card is in play, when the player to your left gains a card, you might gain {a copy of that card/a cheaper card that shares a type with it/etc}

This version has no tracking issues, no "compounding gain" problem, but having more than one in play means that the other player will likely just forgo their turn, since it's simply benefiting you more than them.

I thought about a Duration variant like this. I discarded the idea because of the issue you mentioned: In a game with more than 2 players, you make a political, asymmetrical decision to forego your turn.

"At the start of Clean-Up of the player to your right, you may call this, to gain a copy of every card they gained during their {turn/buy phase}, then trash this"

If you go for "buy phase", then it's quite a bit weaker, but has limited tracking issues. If you go for turn, it's stronger but has worse tracking issues. Regardless, the fact that you have to trash it means that, even though the other player knows that you can call it, you only get to do so once, so just like with Torturer, you have to take the Curse eventually.
Freeloader - Reaction
When the player to your right has most recently gained a card, you may reveal this to gain a copy of that card.

I considered a Reaction version that you use at the end of the left player's buy phase, too. It needs to track less long, but on the other hand, it's nonterminal in a way. That's what I didn't like about it. I guess a Reserve would work, but if it's supposed to be a "Possession replacement", making it a Reserve isn't really an option. The idea was to do something players who hate Possession could put inside their Alchemy set to replace it.

About the card being a one-shot, this would mean you have to cost it much lower, which means it becomes more like Smuggler and less like Possession. Admittedly, I kind of tried to keep with the "insanely expensive" aspect of the original card.

I tend to believe that you can do a card that takes something another player gained before, but it'd have to look more like a Smuggler variant than like a Possession variant to really work out. And we already have Outpost to cover the other aspect of Possession, the extra turn thing. Maybe accepting that Smugglers works and Outpost kinda works is enough.

Toll - Reaction
When another player gains a non-Victory card, you may discard this to gain a copy of that card to your hand.

That works. It's actually a card Co0kieL0rd already did, though. His had added VP value, but apart from that, it was the same. I tend to believe you are right in your assessment on the possibility of a good Possession replacement that still keeps the spirit of Possession. It's probably impossible because the spirit of Possession is just not that great.

pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #1001 on: November 12, 2017, 05:44:26 pm »
+2

How about something completely different:

Code: [Select]
Possession
Event: 6P
Place one of your Possession tokens on each of three different supply piles.
[hr]
When another player gains a card from a supply pile during their turn, you may remove one of your Possession tokens from that pile to gain a copy of it.

Obviously no idea whether it's balanced or not, mostly giving different directions in which the idea of a super smuggler could go. The idea is that you can only spend one Possession token per gain, but I am not sure I phrased that correctly to convey that. Making it an event makes it harder to spam, though it does mean it comes online faster. Main balance problem I could see is that, as an event, it's almost strictly better than buying a Province, so tweaking is probably necessary.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #1002 on: November 12, 2017, 06:00:38 pm »
+2

How about something completely different:

Code: [Select]
Possession
Event: 6P
Place one of your Possession tokens on each of three different supply piles.
[hr]
When another player gains a card from a supply pile during their turn, you may remove one of your Possession tokens from that pile to gain a copy of it.

Obviously no idea whether it's balanced or not, mostly giving different directions in which the idea of a super smuggler could go. The idea is that you can only spend one Possession token per gain, but I am not sure I phrased that correctly to convey that. Making it an event makes it harder to spam, though it does mean it comes online faster. Main balance problem I could see is that, as an event, it's almost strictly better than buying a Province, so tweaking is probably necessary.

It's a fresh idea and could bring us somewhere, but as it is I'm afraid that it will make people shy away from the piles they'd like to buy and buying ePossession instead, leading to the usual Possession bore. It also has a small potential of being political, since it links supply piles to specific players.
If you limited Possession tokens to three per player, you'd avoid the better-than-Province issue, the accumulation of tokens, and the wording issue.

It's the Possession replacement that I'd be most interested in trying.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #1003 on: November 13, 2017, 03:15:17 am »
+1

Another option would be to make it a Duration card, and gain cards as the next player does. Something like
Code: [Select]
At the beginning of next turn: bonus.
[hr]
While this card is in play, when the player to your left gains a card, you might gain {a copy of that card/a cheaper card that shares a type with it/etc}
This version has no tracking issues, no "compounding gain" problem, but having more than one in play means that the other player will likely just forgo their turn, since it's simply benefiting you more than them.

Something similar occurred to me, but I had it as:

Code: [Select]
+1 Buy
Move your possession token to the player to your left.

(Whenever a player buys a card, if they have your possession token, you may take back your token to gain a copy of that card.  If they buy a victory card, you must do so.)

By making it a token that you move and move back, you avoid having to think about multiples.  By making it mandatory for victory cards, the possessed player has some agency; if they hit $10, they could give you both an Estate before buying their Province.  For that to be possible, they need +Buy, so the card gives you +Buy.  I also toyed with having the card move all the possession tokens in front of you, which feels like it would be interesting in multi-player.

I don't think this version is worth 6P, but I don't mind that.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #1004 on: November 14, 2017, 08:09:09 am »
+2

Played two games with Navical today. One had Sorcerer and Stone Circle as well as the Glory spell, while the other had Lady in Waiting. Both times I tried going for the "let VP cards not swamp my deck" strategy, and both times I lost to Navical pulling a megaturn. Highway and Sorcerer in the first game, Horn of Plenty in the second. It was nice to see a clear type of deck where Glory and the Lady are basically useless, because I was worried they (especially Glory) were too strong.

Also, thanks for the game  :)
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