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Author Topic: Rules of Mafia  (Read 22127 times)

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ashersky

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2014, 06:54:46 am »

The prodding rule says that prods will be issued on request after 48 hours, or on request after 24.  Which should it be?

Depends on the kingdom mod.
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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2014, 02:23:14 pm »

I just changed it to 24 hours, because that's when you could do it on request originally.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

faust

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #102 on: October 04, 2014, 07:38:26 am »

I have a change request (or, more accurately, I am announcing that there is a rule I will change in every of my modded games, and would like to see it changed here as well):

Change 1.1 to

"You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting."
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Teproc

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #103 on: January 27, 2015, 03:34:29 pm »

I'm trying to come up with a wording to give a clean resolution to end-game stalemates. I'm not suggesting it to necessarily be included in the rules themselves, but this seems like the right place. Here's what I have :

"If a no lynch occurs as the third consecutive game phase with no death, mafia wins. If a voluntary no kill occurs as the third consecutive game phase with no death, town wins."

Basically it forces whichever faction started the stalemate to end it. I'm not suggesting this should be the solution for every game, but I'm wondering if this wording works. It means that if mafia's kill doesn't get through and then town no lynches, scum has to try to kill someone (but this should cover the case where their kill failg again so that they don't just lose). That's a little weird maybe but I'm fine with it. Any other problems ?
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ashersky

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2015, 03:41:14 pm »

I'm trying to come up with a wording to give a clean resolution to end-game stalemates. I'm not suggesting it to necessarily be included in the rules themselves, but this seems like the right place. Here's what I have :

"If a no lynch occurs as the third consecutive game phase with no death, mafia wins. If a voluntary no kill occurs as the third consecutive game phase with no death, town wins."

Basically it forces whichever faction started the stalemate to end it. I'm not suggesting this should be the solution for every game, but I'm wondering if this wording works. It means that if mafia's kill doesn't get through and then town no lynches, scum has to try to kill someone (but this should cover the case where their kill failg again so that they don't just lose). That's a little weird maybe but I'm fine with it. Any other problems ?

It gives town information they normally wouldn't have in closed games.  That I'd, scum can't use the roleblocker/doctor stopped the kill excuse/fake claim.
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ashersky

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #105 on: January 27, 2015, 03:41:43 pm »

Take out voluntary and it works better.
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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2015, 03:44:15 pm »

Take out voluntary and it works better.

I didn't have it initially, but what if a doctor blocks the kill two nights in a row ? If town no lynched in the meantime, scum just loses without the "voluntary". Not elegant though.
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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #107 on: January 27, 2015, 03:45:30 pm »

Didn't read the initial part, you're right. Yeah, that doesn't work, even in semi-open setups.
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ashersky

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #108 on: January 27, 2015, 03:50:24 pm »

I mean,I get your point.  You want to end stalemates when one faction forces it.  Except, well, both sides are forcing it (no kill, no lynch), and sometimes there's a strategic advantage that's more than "avoid POE".

I think a hidden rule (that is, warning scum in QT) for no kills is better.
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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #109 on: January 27, 2015, 03:52:40 pm »

But then scum has info ahead of time that town doesn't have about how a stalemate situation is resolved.

I guess it doesn't care that much, I was looking at the Legend of Zelda mafia postgame and S_P seemed annoyed that the end-game stalemate was resolved on the fly, so I thought I'd try to make up a rule. Doesn't seem easy to do, probably fine.
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Teproc

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2015, 03:53:24 pm »

"it doesn't" is supposed to say "I do". I'm neither a robot nor Alain Delon (or whoever your American celebrity who talks about himself in the third person of choice is).
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EgorK

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2015, 04:20:14 pm »

But why not making it tied game?
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Teproc

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #112 on: January 27, 2015, 04:24:23 pm »

But why not making it tied game?

Because I'd never actually want that to happen, ties suck. And there will be situations where scum or town (but mostly scum I think) is pessimistic enough about their chances that they might be tempted to go for a tie.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #113 on: January 27, 2015, 04:39:16 pm »

But then scum has info ahead of time that town doesn't have about how a stalemate situation is resolved.

I guess it doesn't care that much, I was looking at the Legend of Zelda mafia postgame and S_P seemed annoyed that the end-game stalemate was resolved on the fly, so I thought I'd try to make up a rule. Doesn't seem easy to do, probably fine.

I don't think I was frustrated that it was resolved on the fly, just that the resolution would have led to prolonging the game indefinitely with optimal play by both sides (IIRC the mod just said, the game keeps going until a lynch or kill happens).  At some point we just had to go for a lynch because we didn't want to wait forever, but it doesn't feel right to break a stalemate situation with suboptimal play when you're not forced to.
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ashersky

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #114 on: January 27, 2015, 04:39:28 pm »

I think if you want a hard and fast rule, it's more like:

"In the case of a forced stalemate, the faction that causes the stalemate more than twice consecutively will forfeit."

Again, you are removing possible strategy choices from scum, but then again, most stalemates start with a No Lynch.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #115 on: January 27, 2015, 04:39:52 pm »

But I agree it's probably good to at least set a default ruling on it.
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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #116 on: January 27, 2015, 04:57:00 pm »

I think if you want a hard and fast rule, it's more like:

"In the case of a forced stalemate, the faction that causes the stalemate more than twice consecutively will forfeit."

Again, you are removing possible strategy choices from scum, but then again, most stalemates start with a No Lynch.

I'll go with that.
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yuma

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2015, 05:57:24 pm »

Cool... "Ignore lists" work in mafia games. I just tested it!

So now the question becomes... should this be legal? And if it is illegal is there a way to enforce it? Obviously mods should take care to make sure they aren't ignoring players in their games, but should it be legal for players to ignore other players?

For those of you wondering you can still see that said player posted something, but you can't see it unless you specifically click on a button that will allow you to see what they posted.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2015, 06:00:25 pm »

Cool... "Ignore lists" work in mafia games. I just tested it!

So now the question becomes... should this be legal? And if it is illegal is there a way to enforce it? Obviously mods should take care to make sure they aren't ignoring players in their games, but should it be legal for players to ignore other players?

For those of you wondering you can still see that said player posted something, but you can't see it unless you specifically click on a button that will allow you to see what they posted.

I would respond, but I've already ignored you!
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yuma

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #119 on: November 10, 2015, 06:01:35 pm »

Cool... "Ignore lists" work in mafia games. I just tested it!

So now the question becomes... should this be legal? And if it is illegal is there a way to enforce it? Obviously mods should take care to make sure they aren't ignoring players in their games, but should it be legal for players to ignore other players?

For those of you wondering you can still see that said player posted something, but you can't see it unless you specifically click on a button that will allow you to see what they posted.

I would respond, but I've already ignored you!

what did you say? You are you calling me names?

I know you are but what am I?
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yuma

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2015, 06:02:18 pm »

completely ignored bastard mafia should probably become a thing...
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Awaclus

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2015, 06:02:37 pm »

Cool... "Ignore lists" work in mafia games. I just tested it!

So now the question becomes... should this be legal? And if it is illegal is there a way to enforce it? Obviously mods should take care to make sure they aren't ignoring players in their games, but should it be legal for players to ignore other players?

For those of you wondering you can still see that said player posted something, but you can't see it unless you specifically click on a button that will allow you to see what they posted.

I don't think there's a problem. You can still choose to read the post, so it's not any different from the current situation where you can choose to scroll through posts you don't want to read. Although, it will probably be inconvenient enough that it's better to un-ignore the person for the duration of the game in practice.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #122 on: November 10, 2015, 06:05:06 pm »

Really though, I don't think it needs a special rule.  It should be up to each player.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #123 on: November 10, 2015, 06:07:45 pm »

I don't think it should be illegal, for two main reasons:

1. It's not enforceable.  Maybe it is actually, I don't know how exactly the ignore list works.  But it seems at least like it would be hard to enforce.  Even if ignore lists are illegal, it's impossible to enforce manually ignoring players by just not looking at their posts; ignore lists are just an automated way of doing that.

2. I don't think it provides anyone with an advantage to ignore other players, at least not an advantage that can't already be gotten by other means.  You can already search for posts by a player, in some sense ignoring some set of players is the same as searching for posts by the complement of that set.  In theory the only advantage you get from ignoring players is that you have less to read, but you can already do that by just skipping over those players' posts.  Giving yourself less information is strictly bad for your alignment.
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yuma

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Re: Rules of Mafia
« Reply #124 on: November 10, 2015, 06:08:26 pm »

Maybe a rule suggestion or reminder then more for convenience. However, I do think it should be mandatory that mods remove all players from the ignored list that are in their games... Too easy to miss votes and mess up vote counts/or miss mod questions. Plus if you don't want to read the posts of your players what are you modding for?
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