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Author Topic: 18AL interest check/signups  (Read 1204 times)

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theorel

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18AL interest check/signups
« on: August 21, 2013, 02:47:43 pm »

18AL

Well, we haven't had enough good meaty games around here lately...so I'm going to propose one.

Quote from: BGG
18AL is a shorter 18xx game set in Alabama and designed by Mark Derrick. It is currently available as a free print-and-play game from John David Galt.

I've been really interested in trying out an 18xx game for a good while now.  I've seen 18AL suggested as a good intro to the series.  For those unfamiliar:
Quote from: BGG
18xx is the collective term used to describe a set of railroad-themed stock market and tile laying games. The 18xx set has two main branches: the 1829 branch (1829, 1825, 1853, and 1829 Mainline) and the 1830 branch (1830, 1856, 1870, etc). There are also a number of crossover games which sit somewhere between the two branches (e.g. 1860). While general railroad operations such as track laying are critical to both branches, the two branches are fundamentally quite different in character and player focus. The 1829 branch games emphasize stock-picking and portfolio management while the 1830 branch concentrates more on financial prediction and stock market manipulation. So in 1829 et al. players are rewarded for holding the right stocks at the right time and for running their companies well, while in 1830 et al. they are rewarded more for manipulating the stock market to their advantage and investing in the companies that thereby profit.

Here's a geeklist with some more information: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/50903/so-youre-thinking-about-giving-18xx-a-try

This is a game that I cannot feasibly play face-to-face due to time constraints...but as a PbF game it should work reasonably well, I think (or at least hope :)).

Rules are here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/80315/18al-rules-v1-7

I've made a google-doc for the board, company boards, bank, etc here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQW2_nUk_nKdHlHVGJJR0ppZUNRVzg1emhpRnBWRUE&usp=sharing
I'll keep track of player-data in thread.

There's no hidden information in this game, no randomness (outside initial ordering).  I'd like to play as well as mod it.  So....
any interest?
1. Theorel
2. Voltaire
3. (Kuildeous?)
4.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:21:32 am by theorel »
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nkirbit

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 03:36:30 pm »

Is this closer to a 1829 or 1830?  Just from the descriptions, 1829 seems like something I'd be interested in, and 1830 doesn't as much.

The only train game I've ever played is Baltimore and Ohio, which I enjoyed quite a bit, although I didn't enjoy all the counting it required every single turn.  Maybe that would be better in an online setting.
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theorel

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 03:44:26 pm »

I can't say with certainty (having never played)...but I think it's closer to the 1829-one.  At least it sounds that way on the surface.
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nkirbit

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 03:49:38 pm »

I may be interested at some point.. it's something I would like to do.  But I start graduate school next week, so will at the very least wait to see what my schedule is like before committing to this.
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Ratsia

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 02:08:19 am »

Well, we haven't had enough good meaty games around here lately...so I'm going to propose one.
I don't have the time to sign up for this, but as a fairly frequent 18xx player (mostly face-to-face, but some online as well) I cannot resist commenting the idea.

Quote
I've been really interested in trying out an 18xx game for a good while now.  I've seen 18AL suggested as a good intro to the series.
There are two alternative theories on which variants are good for the first game. 18AL is indeed amongst the top suggestions for the theory "it is a good idea to start with a simpler, more forgiving, variant".

I'm personally in favor of the other theory, which suggest directly jumping to the deep end of the pool. One naturally should not start with the most complex alternatives (say, 18C2C that last roughly 15 hours in face-to-face game), but the basic idea is to start with a less forgiving variant with more companies. A good example would be 1856, but also the classic 1830 is okay. The reason for such suggestion is that a game of 18AL might easily progress from start to finish without any of the events people generally consider the most interesting ones in 18xx games. If nobody dumps companies, the train rush is too slow, nobody ends up needing to buy a diesel with their own money, and nobody goes even near bankruptcy, then there is a high risk that the game will simply feel boring. 18AL has only 6 companies, which means that (at least) two of the players in a four-player game will not have more than one company and will hence have no chance to appreciate many of the basic maneuvers of 18xx; no shuffling of trains between the companies, no agony of trying to figure out when and where to put up the 2nd company, no concept of using one company to primarily help the other etc.

In the end a game with a harsher variant where 1-2 of the players mess up severely while someone pulls up a nice stunt that seals the game already midway is usually more interesting than a game of 18AL where everyone has the same primary company throughout the game and the game reduces to mostly a track-laying puzzle. My personal belief is that this holds already from the very first game -- I know quite a few of 18xx fans that have been utterly trashed in their first games. I personally started with 1856.

That said, I do understand also the value of starting with a straightforward variant, especially if playing online, so the above rant should maybe be considered as a general advice, not really a suggestion to not play 18AL. :)

Quote
I've made a google-doc for the board, company boards, bank, etc here:
You did this by yourself? Very impressive. However, I still have a feeling that playing the game via that google-doc is going to be very difficult for someone who has not played the game before.

The free software rails works very well and especially combined with Dropbox for storing the save-game files it is quick and easy to play. The software forces most rules (it is not strict enough with track-building so some care has to be taken), which should help especially when playing for the first time. I get the idea of playing via the forum, but perhaps you could combine Rails with some forum-activity? For example, you could still use the forum to announce the actions but keep track of the data in Rails with a link to the latest game-state in the thread? Then everyone could download the file, try out different options for laying down the track etc. Rails also calculates the optimal income, which might be a bit tricky to do near the end of the game.
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Ratsia

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 08:55:29 am »

Is this closer to a 1829 or 1830?  Just from the descriptions, 1829 seems like something I'd be interested in, and 1830 doesn't as much.
18AL is closer to 1830, as are most other 18xx games as well; the surveying part in track-laying apparently just does not work that well (though I must admit I haven't tried 1829) and has not been replicated in that many games.

1830 is more about stock management, which I personally prefer. If you are more interested in track laying then perhaps some of the modern variants with more complex terrain (say, 1844 in Switzerland, or 1849 in Sicily) would be good for you after trying out a simpler variant. 1853 in India is almost completely about track building (having multiple track gauges etc), and IMO nicely illustrates how that is not really the strong point of 18xx games in general; I've yet to see anyone who likes it.

Quote
The only train game I've ever played is Baltimore and Ohio, which I enjoyed quite a bit, although I didn't enjoy all the counting it required every single turn.  Maybe that would be better in an online setting.
Playing online indeed helps. Also, I'd say that you need to count a lot less in 18xx games than you do in B&O. B&O is notorious for requiring a lot of mental arithmetic, and that is requires too much mental effort compared to the actual depth of the game. After all, it is otherwise a bit lighter than the average-scale 18xx games.
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Voltaire

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 01:28:21 pm »

I would play this purely for the theme, but I'm unsure about the pace/time commitment. I'm reading more about the game now.
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Voltaire

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2013, 10:34:38 am »

/in, but I've got V/LA from 8/28-9/2 so only if it starts after that
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theorel

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Re: 18AL interest check/signups
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 08:26:57 am »

@Ratsia: I really appreciate your comments.  I think I would still prefer to go ahead with this as-is, but it's good to get more information.

I think personally, that I'm in favor of starting out with a simpler more forgiving variant.  It's valuable to recognize that several of the things which are considered interesting may not happen here.  In particular, if it feels too slow or like the risks aren't real risks that those might be aspects of the variant rather than the game itself.  For me, a big part of gaming is the "feel" of the gameplay rather than the weight/interest of the decisions.  I've seldom played a game I didn't like, so I'm not too worried about if I don't like this.

As for using the third-party program...my preference is not to use it.  If everyone else wants to, I'm willing...I'm sufficiently interested in playing the game as to make it worthwhile in my estimation even with a third-party program.

@Voltaire: assuming we don't get a sudden influx of players, it seems likely to start after 9/2.
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