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[Watno]

That does indeed sound ridiculously harsh.

[KingZog3]

Yeah. I can see it at 3 mana maybe, but 5 mana is just terrible for Buzzard.

[pingpongsam]

I agree with this, and it fits flavor far better to boot:

I do think that the main problem with both Hunters and miracle are the card draw. But in Miracle is different since they're basicy recycling cards. Hunters are punishing you for being ahead in the game.

BUT 5 mana 3/2 is WAAAAY overkill. I think that the best way to nerf it would be make it draw when a beast dies. This way hunters would need to sacrifice the hounds before drawing into Hunters Mark and wouldn't get the double card draw when Highmane dies. Also, would reduce a lot the chances of comeback when hunters are topdecking.

[Grujah]

And Miracle isn't even a problem anymore, it's weaker since Nax.
Nor is Hunter, even though it is one of more solid decks ATM.

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, I've never felt abused by a Rogue. Hunter is just damned boring today. A majority is playing Hunter and everyone is playing it exactly the same. Yeah, I can beat it because I just play against the meta. Winning isn't fun, though, playing interesting strategies is fun. The Hunter meta has completely devolved into something non-interesting.

[Grujah]

Yeah, I've never felt abused by a Rogue. Hunter is just damned boring today. A majority is playing Hunter and everyone is playing it exactly the same. Yeah, I can beat it because I just play against the meta. Winning isn't fun, though, playing interesting strategies is fun. The Hunter meta has completely devolved into something non-interesting.

Might be, this season I play in lower rankings though (~11-13), so I might not see the best representation of meta.

[Kirian]

I can see it.  Buzzard/Hounds is ridiculous in the early game.  Most of the hunters I see won't play minions T1-T4... because it allows you to trade away your stuff before they can get Coin/Buzzard/UTH on T4 and draw 2-3 cards while still clearing your board.

T4 Buzzard/Snake Trap is also a bit ridiculous.  In both cases, the opponent is being punished for playing the game.

[Grujah]

Buzzard / Hounds needs to be played around. Some decks do it harder, but still..

Buzzard/Snake is often so transparent.. Only in rare occasions you cannot get out of it.

[pingpongsam]

Buzzard / Hounds needs to be played around. So decks to it harder, but still..

Buzzard/Snake is often so transparent.. In rare occasions you cannot get out of it.

That's the thing, though, it's not that it is unbeatable it is that no one bothers to do anything but the same thing and thus the overall quality of the game degrades.

[Kirian]

Buzzard / Hounds needs to be played around. So decks to it harder, but still..

The only way to play around it, though, is to not play more than one minion.  In which case you might as well not be playing the game.

Buzzard/Snake is often so transparent.. In rare occasions you cannot get out of it.

Rare occasions like not having removal in hand?  Obviously with the exception of mages, who always have removal available.  (Druid and Rogue powers set off the snakes before hitting the Buzzard.)

[markusin]

5 mana 3/2 for buzzard sounds...unplayable. Like really, you need to be at turn 6 to play it with a Timber wolf or something. Maybe the final version, if tweaked at all, will end up a bit different than what is currently being speculated.

[pingpongsam]

4 mana seems more appropriate. Whatever the case, I do agree a nerf is in order.

[theory]

I can see it.  Buzzard/Hounds is ridiculous in the early game.  Most of the hunters I see won't play minions T1-T4... because it allows you to trade away your stuff before they can get Coin/Buzzard/UTH on T4 and draw 2-3 cards while still clearing your board.

Unless you've been playing nothing but 1-health minions or he has an illegal number of Hunter's Marks, I don't see how he can clear your board with UTH on turn 4, given that you have a 2-drop, 3-drop, and 4-drop out.

[Watno]

Nerfs to Leeroy and Buzzard officially confirmed for September 22nd: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/14279128810#1

[Titandrake]

Leeroy nerf seems fair. It's quite a bit worse, but it was seeing play in a lot of places. I'd rather they wouldn't, but it'll probably still see play if Hunter decks can adapt to no Buzzard. I'm assuming Hunters are going to drop Buzzard entirely, but the deck is probably still going to be okay.

Miracle may keep Leeroy, but with Leeroy-Shadowstep being so expensive they'll probably treat is as a burn spell/Cold Blood target. I don't think it kills Miracle, it'll still be around in some form because the cycling in the Rogue class is just so solid.

[blueblimp]

The Leeroy nerf may improve the game. Most people dislike massive burst, and Leeroy is a staple of such combos. I'm confused by the timing, since a more natural time to make a nerf would have been during the reign of Miracle Rogue or even earlier, but maybe they wanted to see whether Naxx would be enough.

The Buzzard nerf was perhaps inevitable after the introduction of Webspinner, since an additional 1 mana beast ubiquitous in Hunter decks is a boost to Buzzard. I assume their statistics showed that "drawing Buzzard" made an excessively large difference in Hunter win-rate.

[ycz6]

I know the Millhouse Manastorm discussion took place a page ago, but I'd like to point out that if a Handlock is forced to 1-for-1 your Millhouse on turn 2 then his Twilight Drakes will be weaker and his Mountain Giants more expensive for the rest of the game.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I haven't been playing much recently, but I do have opinions on the card changes.

Leeroy nerf really hurts the Shadowstep combo because it's not just +1 mana, it's +1 mana every time you play Leeroy. So you can't double Shadowstep until turn 10. However, 12 damage for 2 cards and 8 mana isn't terrible (like 2x fireball) and there's also the Malygos Miracle Rogue that was around for a while. It's not like Miracle is all about Leeroy.

This kills the Leeroy+PO+Faceless combo, which means Leeroy probably comes out of Handlock decks. Arcane Golem + PO + Faceless is 16 damage for 8 mana, so maybe that's a thing...

The other uses of Leeroy weren't really pressing the mana boundaries and they probably are still fine. Overall, probably a good change.

The Buzzard one, wow. Remember when it was a 2/2 for 2, lol? 3/2 for 5 seems extreme. At 5 you can't play that many beasts to get draw out of it. I guess if you draw 2 off it, you can compare it to Ancient of Lore, but for 2 less mana with 2/3 less stats. But it's a lot more situational too... I guess comparing it to one of the best cards in the game isn't really fair. Still, it seems like if it's going to cost 5 mana, it should have a little more health, so removing it isn't so trivial -- like 2/3 instead of 3/2, or just 2/2 for 4 mana. Probably it's not actually that bad though.

[blueblimp]

Without seeing the new Buzzard in action, the nerf sounds devastating. Hunter doesn't have Conceal to protect Buzzard like Rogue does with Auctioneer. So that means you really shouldn't count on it surviving to the next turn, which means feeding it cheap beasts. But by the time you reach turn 7-ish, your cheap beasts will mostly have been played already.

[Obi Wan Bonogi]

Devastating nerf to buzzard, hunter is in shambles, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and think these nerfs are also taking into account the future sets and unseen hunter cards on the horizon(buzzard's old form would always be insanely good as long as they keep making beasts).

[HiveMindEmulator]

Without seeing the new Buzzard in action, the nerf sounds devastating. Hunter doesn't have Conceal to protect Buzzard like Rogue does with Auctioneer. So that means you really shouldn't count on it surviving to the next turn, which means feeding it cheap beasts. But by the time you reach turn 7-ish, your cheap beasts will mostly have been played already.

It almost certainly won't work in the decks that are being played now. But control Hunter...

[Titandrake]

Without seeing the new Buzzard in action, the nerf sounds devastating. Hunter doesn't have Conceal to protect Buzzard like Rogue does with Auctioneer. So that means you really shouldn't count on it surviving to the next turn, which means feeding it cheap beasts. But by the time you reach turn 7-ish, your cheap beasts will mostly have been played already.

It almost certainly won't work in the decks that are being played now. But control Hunter...

People have tried Control hunter in the past, IIRC it's okay enough to play, but not good enough to actually play seriously.

[HiveMindEmulator]

The problem with Control Hunter is it's not as good as more aggressive Hunters due to the hero power. But if enough cards keep changing into value cards, it will become a thing. I don't think new Buzzard in a vacuum is a terrible card. Similarly, Longbow is not bad. They just are too slow for current popular Hunter decks. When there are enough cards like this, control Hunter might become a thing, despite the fact that the hero power can never be used for value. It's not like all possible good decks are already popular.

[EgorK]

I am currently play face Hunter sans buzzard/uth combo and it is pretty decent

[KingZog3]

I opened The Beast. Looking forward to seeing in my collection pages as I browse by it.