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Author Topic: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?  (Read 613667 times)

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theory

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #875 on: May 19, 2014, 08:10:27 am »
0

Ranked is funny for me right now.  I'm at rank 17 (maybe up to 15 or 16 now?  I forget) but it is hard for me to improve my deck because I feel like I can play anything and win.

To test this hypothesis I literally chose cards at random for a Warlock deck.  This is the result:


(Cards not visible: Stranglethorn Tiger, Boulderfist Ogre, Stormwind Champion, War Golem)

I won, of course.  Best part was having no idea what to mulligan, because I didn't even look at what was in my deck until after the game.
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #876 on: May 19, 2014, 12:05:50 pm »
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http://arenamastery.com/Co2k

1-3 Druid.  Saw exactly one of my 3 Wraths in four games, and neither Druid of the Claw at any time.  Worst moment:  Ironbark Protector hit by Freezing Trap. :(  The game was otherwise won, but instead I lost.
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theory

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #877 on: May 19, 2014, 12:19:42 pm »
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You gotta be careful with secrets, man!  I always just have a list of secrets open and always assume that it is the worst possible secret. 
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #878 on: May 19, 2014, 12:43:00 pm »
+1

http://arenamastery.com/Co2k

1-3 Druid.  Saw exactly one of my 3 Wraths in four games, and neither Druid of the Claw at any time.  Worst moment:  Ironbark Protector hit by Freezing Trap. :(  The game was otherwise won, but instead I lost.

Draft comments:
2. Soul of the Forest over Frostwolf Warlord is insane to me. For SotF to have any value, you need to have at least 2-3 minions on board, in which case Warlord is a 7/7 or 8/8 for 5, which is much better than 2-3 2/2s showing up later.
4. Molten Giant is really good in constructed, but really bad in arena. The big difference is that you're unlikely to have a way to make him taunt in arena. I take the pirate captain (aka vanilla 3/3) here.
16. I think Crusader > Ironbark, especially since you have 2 giants and 2 big taunts already. Remember, all games have a turn 3, but not all games have a turn 8.
20. Kodo > Twilight Drake in general, I think. It's just so good at dealing with aggro.
24. Dragonhawk is kind of unpickable. Is this about your lack of 2-drop minions? Dragonhawk doesn't really rectify that. Is the plan to use it to allow you to cantrip your wraths to kill 3/2s? Maybe that's a possibility, but it seems like wishful thinking for not that much improvement. I'd just take Ogre Magi here.
26. Owl is easily the worst card here. Starfire and Crusader are easy 2-for-1s. Owl is not even going to be worth a card a lot of the time.
29. Like Dragonahwk, Boar is nearly unpickable. Your curve can still afford to take Lord of the Arena.
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #879 on: May 19, 2014, 03:19:49 pm »
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Yes, those last three picks you mention were because of the really high curve I had, and in particular theOwl was for the silence.

Otherwise I'm going mostly by suggestions in various places.  Almost all the epic rankings put the Captain far down unless it's a constructed pirate deck.
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theory

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #880 on: May 19, 2014, 04:33:32 pm »
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It's hard to justify Owl over Scarlet Crusader in general.  Owl has great utility, but it's very situational and sometimes it just never gets used effectively.  I often try to pick one up if it's not a huge value drop, but SC -> Owl is a massive drop in strength.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #881 on: May 19, 2014, 05:17:28 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/Co2k

1-3 Druid.  Saw exactly one of my 3 Wraths in four games, and neither Druid of the Claw at any time.  Worst moment:  Ironbark Protector hit by Freezing Trap. :(  The game was otherwise won, but instead I lost.

Draft comments:
2. Soul of the Forest over Frostwolf Warlord is insane to me. For SotF to have any value, you need to have at least 2-3 minions on board, in which case Warlord is a 7/7 or 8/8 for 5, which is much better than 2-3 2/2s showing up later.
4. Molten Giant is really good in constructed, but really bad in arena. The big difference is that you're unlikely to have a way to make him taunt in arena. I take the pirate captain (aka vanilla 3/3) here.
16. I think Crusader > Ironbark, especially since you have 2 giants and 2 big taunts already. Remember, all games have a turn 3, but not all games have a turn 8.
20. Kodo > Twilight Drake in general, I think. It's just so good at dealing with aggro.
24. Dragonhawk is kind of unpickable. Is this about your lack of 2-drop minions? Dragonhawk doesn't really rectify that. Is the plan to use it to allow you to cantrip your wraths to kill 3/2s? Maybe that's a possibility, but it seems like wishful thinking for not that much improvement. I'd just take Ogre Magi here.
26. Owl is easily the worst card here. Starfire and Crusader are easy 2-for-1s. Owl is not even going to be worth a card a lot of the time.
29. Like Dragonahwk, Boar is nearly unpickable. Your curve can still afford to take Lord of the Arena.

I agree with all of these, although I'm very close on #20.  The other thing that I would suggest is Amani Berseker over Scarlet Crusader at #19, given that you take a crusader in 16.  You really needed 2 drops.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #882 on: May 19, 2014, 05:19:45 pm »
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It's hard to justify Owl over Scarlet Crusader in general.  Owl has great utility, but it's very situational and sometimes it just never gets used effectively.  I often try to pick one up if it's not a huge value drop, but SC -> Owl is a massive drop in strength.

I really, really dislike owl.  It's situational, and even when it's good, it's not that big of a swing to justify playing a 2/1 for 2 that dies easily.  It's great when you silence Tirion, but how often does that really come up?

I would probably rather have the murloc that makes a 2/1 and a 1/1.  I don't want either, though.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #883 on: May 19, 2014, 05:23:16 pm »
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Actually, I almost certainly would take Twilight Drake over Kodo at that point.  Yeah Kodo's great, but at that point in the draft the deck already has:  (Frostwolf Warlord), Druid of the Claw, Fen Creeper, Stranglethorn Tiger at 5, and only Ogre Magi and Stormwind Knight at 4.  Kodo is better than all of those 5s, but I think diversifying is more important, and I think that having a quality 4 drop is more important than having a quality 5 drop.  The power level at 5 previous to the pick is also way higher than the power level at 4.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #884 on: May 19, 2014, 05:46:22 pm »
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Yes, those last three picks you mention were because of the really high curve I had, and in particular theOwl was for the silence.

You shouldn't overreact to your curve. It's okay to take an average card over a great one, or a below-average card over a slightly-less-below-average card, but there are some cards you just don't pick regardless of curve. For me, the "never pick" neutral commons are: Thrallmar, Dalaran Mage, Shieldbearer, Boar, Footman, Silverback, Magma Rager, Dragonhawk, Wisp, and Grimscale.

The point of having a "good" curve is that you want stuff to play so that you don't waste your mana. The problem with things like Dragonhawk or Boar is that even if you do spend your mana on it, it has no impact, so you might as well have just not spent the mana. It really doesn't buy you anything most of the time.

Quote
Otherwise I'm going mostly by suggestions in various places.  Almost all the epic rankings put the Captain far down unless it's a constructed pirate deck.

Then whatever rankings you're looking at are kind of questionable. A vanilla 3/3 is an acceptable 3-drop. It trades with all 3-drops other than Scarlet Crusader. I think the Captain is unquestionably ranked 5 out of 10 neutral epics.
Good-Great: Sea Giant, BGH, Faceless, Blood Knight
Average: Captain, Murloc Warleader
Bad: Molten Giant, Doomsayer
Unpickable: Mountain Giant, Crab

It's hard to justify Owl over Scarlet Crusader in general.  Owl has great utility, but it's very situational and sometimes it just never gets used effectively.  I often try to pick one up if it's not a huge value drop, but SC -> Owl is a massive drop in strength.

I never take any neutral above Scarlet Crusader other than Sen'jin or Yeti. Like ever. Scarlet Crusader is the business in area. Pyromancer and Knife Juggler are rare, so the only good common answers to Crusader are Earthshock, Arcane Missiles, and lucky Mad Bomber. It's really hard to not gain an advantage with Crusader.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #885 on: May 19, 2014, 05:50:35 pm »
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Actually, I almost certainly would take Twilight Drake over Kodo at that point.  Yeah Kodo's great, but at that point in the draft the deck already has:  (Frostwolf Warlord), Druid of the Claw, Fen Creeper, Stranglethorn Tiger at 5, and only Ogre Magi and Stormwind Knight at 4.  Kodo is better than all of those 5s, but I think diversifying is more important, and I think that having a quality 4 drop is more important than having a quality 5 drop.  The power level at 5 previous to the pick is also way higher than the power level at 4.

Yeah, I think you're right on this one. Kodo isn't *that* much better than Twilight Drake, so this is a reasonable mana curve consideration.
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #886 on: May 19, 2014, 08:23:35 pm »
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Then whatever rankings you're looking at are kind of questionable. A vanilla 3/3 is an acceptable 3-drop. It trades with all 3-drops other than Scarlet Crusader. I think the Captain is unquestionably ranked 5 out of 10 neutral epics.

Well, I sometimes use Arena Mastery's ranking, and sometimes Icy Veins:  http://hearthstone.icy-veins.com/arena-druid-card-rankings-spreadsheet

A vanilla 3/3, though, is worse than several mediocre commons--Earthen Ring Farseer and Ironfur Grizzly, for instance.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #887 on: May 19, 2014, 09:19:51 pm »
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^I think the most reasonable rankings are here. But that doesn't have class-specific stuff.

Yes Southsea Captain is worse than Grizzly, but that doesn't affect how it compares to other epics. Epics are not necessarily better than commons, they're just more rare. The meaningful comparison is between a vanilla 3/3 and Molten Giant. Molten Giant is bad. Sometimes it's great, but it's just too narrow. It's going to sit in your hand for a while, hoping for a chance to be played, but often won't find a spot until your near death, at which point it won't save you. I'd rather have a mediocre minion I can be sure to play without losing any tempo.
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theory

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #888 on: May 19, 2014, 09:33:56 pm »
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That's frankly bizarre.  Try the Trump Arena rankings: http://www.liquidhearth.com/guides/arena-tier-list

In general I prioritize $2-$4 vanilla+ minions over all else.  Chillwind Yeti, Dark Iron Dwarf, and Harvest Golem are the best examples.  They are almost always 2-for-1.  Ironbeak Owl is a luxury when you have a ton of strong vanilla+ minions and need some utility.  The only utility minion I will always take over the vanilla+ dudes is Water Elemental.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #889 on: May 19, 2014, 10:39:10 pm »
+2

Silver testtttt
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #890 on: May 20, 2014, 10:48:49 am »
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Decided yesterday that I'll focus on constructed and open boosters instead of playing Arena. Second or third booster in - YSERA!

Yay. I also got 1375 dust, was planning on getting Leeroy but might get a more control-y Legend instead to go with my Ysera.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #891 on: May 20, 2014, 11:30:10 pm »
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Backtracking a bit to the Deathwing in arena discussion, I think he's even worse than I gave him credit for. I just drafted Deathwing in an arena the other day, and in 10 games I managed to play it exactly ZERO times. Granted I didn't have the right curve for it (you want to have a very low curve so your hand is nearly empty when you play it), but man, it's hard to get into a situation where you want to use it. While it can be a blowout when you play it, it's just soo hard to actually get into that situation. I think I'd rather have even something like Harrison Jones most of the time...
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #892 on: May 20, 2014, 11:39:24 pm »
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The problem is that you underrate Harrison Jones.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #893 on: May 21, 2014, 09:12:33 am »
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So two arena runs in a row with zero Epics available to me...lame.

I did just get my first Legendary from a pack!!!!

...but it's a King Krush...which is underwhelming to me.  Am I wrong?
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #894 on: May 21, 2014, 01:13:52 pm »
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...but it's a King Krush...which is underwhelming to me.  Am I wrong?

Sorry :(. Yeah I'm pretty sure King Krush is the least used class-specific legendary. The issue is that due to the Hunter hero power, Hunter tends to play more aggressive, and 9 mana is just way past the curve.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #895 on: May 21, 2014, 02:21:54 pm »
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King Krush is the hunter pyroblast. The challenge is building a hunter deck that wants pyroblast.
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #896 on: May 21, 2014, 02:42:34 pm »
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Yeah, I don't really want anything bigger than a 6 (Highmane or something similar) in my Hunter deck.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #897 on: May 21, 2014, 04:26:54 pm »
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King Krush is the hunter pyroblast. The challenge is building a hunter deck that wants pyroblast.

No, I'm pretty sure it is not that hard at all to build a hunter deck that wants Pyroblast.  Pyroblast has 25% more card-efficiency, and ignores taunt, which is critical at the higher amounts of mana.

King Krush is actually worse than Ragnaros even in hunter, during the midrange hunter era I ran Ragnaros occasionally but not KK.
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #898 on: May 21, 2014, 04:29:30 pm »
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This was just posted in the hearthstone subreddit, but worth mentioning. Tomorrow is your last day to turn your UtHs into bonus dust.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #899 on: May 21, 2014, 05:19:29 pm »
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Decided yesterday that I'll focus on constructed and open boosters instead of playing Arena. Second or third booster in - YSERA!

Yay. I also got 1375 dust, was planning on getting Leeroy but might get a more control-y Legend instead to go with my Ysera.

Leeroy is one of the top crafting priorities if you don't have a specific deck in mind. It opens up so many deck possibilities compared to the other legendaries. It's even used in control decks as a burst finish. I has essentially replaced Jaraxxus in handlock.
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