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Author Topic: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?  (Read 613762 times)

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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #775 on: May 12, 2014, 06:25:24 pm »
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I think I just drafted to most ridiculous arena deck ever. Could use a couple better minions, but 2 legendaries and a bunch of epics makes up for that.

Rogue:

-Backstab
-Deadly Poison x2
-Shiv
-Bloodsail Raider
-Bluegill Warrior
-Defias Ringleader
-Knife Juggler x2
-Mana addict
-Sunfury Protector
-Blood Knight
-Ironfur grizzly
-Raging Worgen
-Shattered Sun Cleric x2
-Wolfrider
-Chillwind Yeti
-Cult Master
-Oasis Snapjaw
-Assassinate
-Darkscale healer
-faceless Maniputalor
-Nightblade
-Spiteful Smith
-Hogger!
-Kidnapper
-Sprint
-Ragnaors the Firelord!!
-Sea Giant
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #776 on: May 12, 2014, 06:50:09 pm »
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The only time I ever drafted Hogger I never got to play him. He was always in the bottom of the deck. :(
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ycz6

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #777 on: May 12, 2014, 06:54:32 pm »
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After regularly getting 5-8 arena wins a month ago, I'm 1-3 on my last 3 arenas.

Guess I'm one of those awful arena players pops loves to talk about.

Nah.  I think it's a log of rng with drafts.

I'm finally having my first good arena run, for example.  Just got win 8 in four turns:

1 - opponent passes
1 - coin out the 2/1 murloc and Leper Gnome
2 - 0/2 totem
2 - knife juggler, kill totem
3 - 1/1 totem
3 - Orc chick with boar, juggler kills totem
4 - demolisher
4 - Swipe demo, all attacks
5 - resign

That isn't the shaman's fault as a player -- clearly dome bad rng draws.

Turn 4 arena wins are the best. I once had the following miracle game:

HimMe
Turn 1 | Coin, Knife Juggler
Turn 2 | Novice EngineerKnife Juggler (Juggler hits Novice Engineer)
Turn 3 | SomethingMurloc Tidehunter (Jugglers kill Something), Repentance
Turn 4 | Mogu'shan Warden 0-1
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 06:58:21 pm by ycz6 »
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #778 on: May 12, 2014, 07:32:15 pm »
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That's true in constructed, but I always find myself disappointed by Innervate in arena. It might be a playstyle thing, but I prefer having lots of 2 and 3 drops, while Innervate wants you to have enough high value expensive cards. You can build around this in constructed, but in arena it feels much harder to get a deck where Innervate gets good value without making your early game difficult when you don't draw it.

I don't think Innervate really needs expensive cards. It's just 2 free mana of tempo you can spend on whatever. And there's plenty of good common things to use it for. It's not just Yeti or Venture Co or DotC or Ogre. Sen'jin, Scarlett, Harvest Golem, or even double 2-drop work well. If you put 2 Raptors on an empty board turn 1-2, that's a hell of a lot scarier than the Defias gang.
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Titandrake

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #779 on: May 12, 2014, 07:51:34 pm »
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That's true in constructed, but I always find myself disappointed by Innervate in arena. It might be a playstyle thing, but I prefer having lots of 2 and 3 drops, while Innervate wants you to have enough high value expensive cards. You can build around this in constructed, but in arena it feels much harder to get a deck where Innervate gets good value without making your early game difficult when you don't draw it.

I don't think Innervate really needs expensive cards. It's just 2 free mana of tempo you can spend on whatever. And there's plenty of good common things to use it for. It's not just Yeti or Venture Co or DotC or Ogre. Sen'jin, Scarlett, Harvest Golem, or even double 2-drop work well. If you put 2 Raptors on an empty board turn 1-2, that's a hell of a lot scarier than the Defias gang.

Yeah, I'll freely admit I don't have much experience with Innervate, it's been a while since I played one in a constructed or arena deck, and I might have just been a worse player.

In other news, I got my Frothing Berzerker up to 14/4 by turn 5 my last game. Pretty silly.
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #780 on: May 12, 2014, 08:06:02 pm »
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I love Frothing Berserker. He's a vastly improved Flesheating Ghoul.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #781 on: May 13, 2014, 01:37:09 am »
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My attitude towards innervate is similar to my attitude towards novice engineer in arena, it's largely like not picking a card at all.  If you draw innervate with a gnomish inventor, that's a fancy crocolisk.  If you draw innervate with a starfire, it's a fancy Fireball.  Fancy but not actually that much better than whatever you had originally.  Constructed decks are well oiled machines that are willing to spin their wheels to get just a little more oomph out of everything, like hey i want innervate to upgrade my cantrip ogre magis for cantrip yetis because that's ever so slightly better (innervated Ancient Lore is a bit better than Azure Drake, but they are cardcount equivalent).  But in arena mode you tend to want to be spending your picks to actually get good cards into your deck.  So like Novice Engineer, I'll pick innervate to avoid taking something disappointing like Tauren Warrior, but I won't take Innervate over a card that would improve my deck, like SilverHand Knight.


All of that is assuming that when you take Innervate, you properly shift your curve upwards or add draw to try to absorb the extra mana without getting empty hand syndrome.  That has some consistency problems if you only drafted one Innervate, but if you somehow get a quadruple Innervate it's probably much easier and theoretically even more solid than in play mode (though in practice nobody will know wtf they are doing and probably overshoot or undershoot the curve because that doesn't happen often).  With double innervate things generally turn out fine.

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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #782 on: May 13, 2014, 12:02:30 pm »
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My attitude towards innervate is similar to my attitude towards novice engineer in arena, it's largely like not picking a card at all.  If you draw innervate with a gnomish inventor, that's a fancy crocolisk.  If you draw innervate with a starfire, it's a fancy Fireball.  Fancy but not actually that much better than whatever you had originally.  Constructed decks are well oiled machines that are willing to spin their wheels to get just a little more oomph out of everything, like hey i want innervate to upgrade my cantrip ogre magis for cantrip yetis because that's ever so slightly better (innervated Ancient Lore is a bit better than Azure Drake, but they are cardcount equivalent). 
I'm confused by what you're saying here. If you're playing cantrips with Innervate, you're nearly canceling out the tempo-boosting effect because Innervate costs a card for 2 mana and cantrips are overcosted for their effect by ~2 mana to make up the card draw. In the words of cupcake boy, "OK, so what?". Is the problem that you feel compelled to draft more cantrips to offset the card loss of playing Innervate? There are other ways to deal with the card loss. If you Innervate out strong cards like Yetis, they're going 2-for-1 anyway, but in a more tempo-proactive way than cantrips.

There are two ways to get card advantage: drawing more cards, and killing more cards off the board. The latter is the more tempo-proactive way to play. If you want to take greater advantage of a tempo card like Innervate, you prefer to do the latter. Of course, if you must do the former, that's okay too. There's no loss compared to just playing without the Innervate. And better yet: you don't have to do it on the same turn! You can push out the big stuff early and then get the card advantage back by playing drawing cards later. In a sense, this is like getting an improved version of Shaman overload on whatever minions you want.
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #783 on: May 13, 2014, 02:23:28 pm »
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Some good arguments for innervate, thanks. I may have underrated its strength in ideal arena situations. I still can't get over how disastrously bad it is as a late-game topdeck, or how uninspiring it is to draw early if you don't have enough mana worth of cards to spend innervate on.
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #784 on: May 13, 2014, 02:43:18 pm »
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Innervate is a terrible top deck, but I don't think there's any situations where it's bad early. Even if you don't have a 4-5 drop in hand, dropping two 2s is a good use of it, and can usually let you take tempo.
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #785 on: May 13, 2014, 03:20:43 pm »
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I finally finished my task of playing all classes to level 10, and beating Expert AI.  So far, I've constructed a shitty Rogue deck, two questionable Mage decks, and the decent Priest deck (this is the one that I beat the AI on).

Current goal is to play ranked games and see how high my Priest deck takes me!
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #786 on: May 13, 2014, 04:03:28 pm »
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If you get to 20 or better (and thats quite easy), you get a special back at the end of the month!
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #787 on: May 13, 2014, 04:45:46 pm »
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I'm at 20 already, it was pretty easy.
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #788 on: May 13, 2014, 04:51:31 pm »
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If you get to 20 or better (and thats quite easy), you get a special back at the end of the month!

So... how do I use the special back?  I think I got it for last month, but I've no idea how to change it.
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #789 on: May 13, 2014, 05:06:21 pm »
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in options, i think.  I ran into it accidentally while trying to mute things.  Didn't like the red backs.
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Lekkit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #790 on: May 13, 2014, 05:21:15 pm »
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What really annoys me with the card backs is that they affect your cards. The cards your opponent will be looking at. Not the card backs you'll be looking at the whole game.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #791 on: May 13, 2014, 05:41:33 pm »
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Yetis are better than Gnomishes but it's harder to make parallel comparisons with him to illustrate my point.  4/5's and 3/5's are a special case because of the way they outclass early stuff, but I don't think that happens consistently enough.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #792 on: May 13, 2014, 08:56:00 pm »
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I too just drafted my best arena deck ever...3-0 so far:

1x Blessing of Might
1x Hand of Protection
1x Noble Sacrifice
1x Argent Protector
1x Knife Juggler
1x Loot Hoarder
1x Novice Engineer
1x River Crocolisk
1x Youthful Brewmaster
2x Aldor Peacekeeper
1x Big Game Hunter
1x Blood Knight
1x Scarlet Crusader
1x Truesilver Champion
1x Blessing of Kings
2x Consecration
1x Hammer of Wrath
2x Ancient Brewmaster
1x Dark Iron Dwarf
1x Booty Bay Bodyguard
1x Fen Creeper
1x Nightblade
1x Stormpike Commander
1x Guardian of Kings
1x Gruul
1x Tirion Fordring
1x Sea Giant

A lot of good 4s and Tirion + Gruul + Peacekeepers will hopefully win me almost every game.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #793 on: May 14, 2014, 12:13:41 am »
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Yetis are better than Gnomishes but it's harder to make parallel comparisons with him to illustrate my point.  4/5's and 3/5's are a special case because of the way they outclass early stuff, but I don't think that happens consistently enough.

I guess I'm not sure what your point is then... I thought it related directly to cantrips and trying to get back the card advantage.
Instead of giving an example, can you explain your point?

Innervate trades cards for tempo. It's like Soulfire. Soulfire is a little better because Warlock has a built-in way to get the card advantage back via the hero power. With Druid, you actually have to draft a way of getting the card advantage. Fortunately, that's not very hard.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #794 on: May 14, 2014, 12:17:11 am »
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While we're on this tempo vs card advantage thread, what do you guys think of dancing swords?

3 mana 4/4.  Deathrattle: Your opponent draws a card.
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ashersky

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #795 on: May 14, 2014, 12:21:53 am »
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While we're on this tempo vs card advantage thread, what do you guys think of dancing swords?

3 mana 4/4.  Deathrattle: Your opponent draws a card.

I fear the cards that help my opponent much more in Hearthstone than, say in Dominion.  Like, that sounds worse to me than Council Room.

I can't tell if Naturalize is a good card or not.  It's single minion removal for 1 mana, which is great, but your opponent draws TWO cards.  Two is a lot.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #796 on: May 14, 2014, 12:53:42 am »
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While we're on this tempo vs card advantage thread, what do you guys think of dancing swords?

3 mana 4/4.  Deathrattle: Your opponent draws a card.

Looks bad to me. 4/4 seems kind of weak for that effect. In most other examples, a card trades for around 2 mana of tempo, here it's less than 1. This card is similar to Mukla except it gives a card from their deck (with a delay) rather than 2 Bananas. A card is probably better than 2 Bananas, yet this card has 1/1 stats *less* than Mukla. It also looks a bit like Succubus, which no one plays, with +1 health, but a worse penalty (giving them a card is better than discarding one for Warlock) and 1 more mana cost.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #797 on: May 14, 2014, 01:00:45 am »
+1

I can't tell if Naturalize is a good card or not.  It's single minion removal for 1 mana, which is great, but your opponent draws TWO cards.  Two is a lot.

The problem with Naturalize is that there's usually not a good target for it at the point in time where that tempo matters a lot. If you're naturalizing a 4-drop, you're giving up a lot of cards for not a big enough effect. If you naturalize some huge late game minion, the mana savings aren't that important anymore a lot of the time.
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #798 on: May 14, 2014, 07:29:48 am »
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Why is this in boardgames?  :o

Anyhow, got my first 11-X today (got a booster and 440g).

Here is the deck:
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2955yep.jpg
Edit: Note that curve isn't really that good and the huge lack of 6 drops. Other than Onyxia, I had big lategame threats.


Notable cards:

I won ~4 games on the back of Questing Adventurer alone.

I had to pick Blade Furry quite early, with no Poisons or Weapons. Made me value already awesome Poison even more (It's basically a Fiery War Axe). Furry did good job maybe twice alltogether, Poison won games easily.

Wild Pyro was horrible. Onyxia is my fav legendary :)

Notable games:

11-2, I played horribly and deserved to lose.

10-2 was a very close game, a true test of skill. Until I got as lucky as one gets. I got a 3/3 Vanilla and a Mogushan Warden and am at about ~7. He gets 4/5 Drake and 4/6 Druid in play. I Assassinate the Taunter and play Cold Blood on Mogushan (7/3 can be killed with 3 damage spell, Mogushan cant) and get him to 8. He doesn't attack with Drake but puts an Ironbark Protector and a 2 drop, I think. I don't have anything in hand, and what looked like a new turn win turn into a next turn lose. I recon that only card that actually saves me is Black Knight. And oh, of course I topdeck it :)
(or something like that, but you get the jest of it)

4-1, I got first. Rexxar does some really strange moves:
T1 he puts 2/1 guy that gives +2/+0 when he enters. A horrible play, esp against a Rogue. I kill it.
T2 he plays Tracking and Arcane shot.. at me.
T3 a 2 drop and coin for hero power.
Needless to say, few turns later I am beating him up with a 7/1 Divine Shielder, 3/3 bear and poison daggers. Sigh. How do these people get to 4 wins?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 07:59:45 am by Grujah »
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #799 on: May 14, 2014, 11:28:23 am »
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What really annoys me with the card backs is that they affect your cards. The cards your opponent will be looking at. Not the card backs you'll be looking at the whole game.

Well, the idea is that they are a bragging, prestige thing.
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