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Author Topic: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?  (Read 613692 times)

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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #600 on: May 01, 2014, 07:29:23 pm »
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SO with the ladder having reset for May, I think it makes sense to take a break from ranked play.  I'm getting slammed by real decks.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #601 on: May 01, 2014, 07:36:41 pm »
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I'm in the camp of almost always coining out a 2 drop turn 1 on the draw, assuming I have a second 2 drop to follow it up.  (With certain exceptions.. I won't coin out a loot horder against a mage if I have 2 of them, for example).  Yeah, if I miss a turn later it sucks, but that's really not that likely.. I'll probably have something to play turn 3 and 4 regardless of whether I have the coin or not.

Now, here's a question:  How do you use innervate?  Say my opener is Innervate, Yeti, Harvest Golem.. I'll 100% pass turn 1, yeti turn 2, and golem turn 3.  But there are much harder decisions I routinely have to make with my druid deck, and I'm pretty sure I get a lot of them wrong.

Let's start with this one:  Turn1, on the draw, your hand is Innervate x2, Yeti, Cairne, Ysera, Coin.  What's the play?  My pick would be to coin out Yeti.. but maybe coining out Cairne is better?  I'm not sure.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #602 on: May 01, 2014, 07:37:29 pm »
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My name is Nick #11795, btw.
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ashersky

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #603 on: May 01, 2014, 08:27:48 pm »
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Ah.  I play without sound, so that explains things a bit.

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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #604 on: May 01, 2014, 08:38:10 pm »
+1

Ah.  I play without sound, so that explains things a bit.

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #605 on: May 01, 2014, 08:42:17 pm »
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Can folks define some terms for me?  I see "aggro" and "ramp up" used to describe decks, but no good definitions.  To me, aggro is what the tank wants, which doesn't make much sense in Hearthstone terms to me.
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #606 on: May 01, 2014, 08:43:38 pm »
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Ah.  I play without sound, so that explains things a bit.

Whaaaaaa?! You miss all the catch phrases! Tazdingo! Mmmyyyeeeeessss!

Mmmmmmmmrmgglgrlglglrlglgll.

I played WOW for 8+ years; I've had plenty of Murloc charging noises, thanks.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #607 on: May 01, 2014, 09:03:33 pm »
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Can folks define some terms for me?  I see "aggro" and "ramp up" used to describe decks, but no good definitions.  To me, aggro is what the tank wants, which doesn't make much sense in Hearthstone terms to me.

I don't know what "ramp up" is, but aggro I think means decks that aim to end as fast as possible. Warlock decks that put out tons of minions and try to end quickly are aggro decks.
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Titandrake

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #608 on: May 01, 2014, 10:39:36 pm »
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In MtG, ramp decks are decks designed to quickly get lots of mana, then play high cost cards several turns earlier than they should, so I'm assuming it means the same thing in Hearthstone. As far as I know, only Druid can build a ramp deck in Hearthstone, because they're the class that has all the mana manipulation. I haven't seen a Druid deck that runs Wild Growth, or Nourish for the mana instead of the cards, they usually use Innervate to get a short boost instead.
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ashersky

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #609 on: May 01, 2014, 10:44:00 pm »
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In MtG, ramp decks are decks designed to quickly get lots of mana, then play high cost cards several turns earlier than they should, so I'm assuming it means the same thing in Hearthstone. As far as I know, only Druid can build a ramp deck in Hearthstone, because they're the class that has all the mana manipulation. I haven't seen a Druid deck that runs Wild Growth, or Nourish for the mana instead of the cards, they usually use Innervate to get a short boost instead.

Are Druids running Healing Touch?  I mean, 8 HP for 3 is nice, but I feel like every time I draw it, I don't need it or it's too late and I'd rather it was a minion.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #610 on: May 01, 2014, 11:32:21 pm »
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In MtG, ramp decks are decks designed to quickly get lots of mana, then play high cost cards several turns earlier than they should, so I'm assuming it means the same thing in Hearthstone. As far as I know, only Druid can build a ramp deck in Hearthstone, because they're the class that has all the mana manipulation. I haven't seen a Druid deck that runs Wild Growth, or Nourish for the mana instead of the cards, they usually use Innervate to get a short boost instead.

Are Druids running Healing Touch?  I mean, 8 HP for 3 is nice, but I feel like every time I draw it, I don't need it or it's too late and I'd rather it was a minion.

I never found pure healing cards to be that useful to be honest. Most other cards could save you and are useful in more situations.

Also Druids rarely run Wild Growth because it's a dead card unles you draw it early, and even then it has no board presence that it leaves you with a huge tempo loss. Innervate is good because it's useful at many more stages of the game.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #611 on: May 01, 2014, 11:47:10 pm »
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I played Wild Growth with 10 mana crystal already and it gave me a card of mana, like the Coin.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #612 on: May 01, 2014, 11:54:49 pm »
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I've seen a decent amount of druids running wild growth.. probably 50/50 between growth and no growth this past week.  I don't run it myself, but I'm considering trying it out.  My deck often suffers from poor turn 2s if I don't draw innervate, and growths help that problem.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #613 on: May 02, 2014, 12:02:47 am »
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I've seen a decent amount of druids running wild growth.. probably 50/50 between growth and no growth this past week.  I don't run it myself, but I'm considering trying it out.  My deck often suffers from poor turn 2s if I don't draw innervate, and growths help that problem.

The problem with Growth on T2 is you've basically done nothing that turn, and depending on who you are against, it could just smoke you.

Sometimes it's nice to have on T5 if you are dropping a 3 or something.

I'm thinking of dropping Growth and Touch both in lieu of more attack.


Separately, is Shieldbearer awesome or terrible?
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #614 on: May 02, 2014, 12:18:02 am »
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I've seen a decent amount of druids running wild growth.. probably 50/50 between growth and no growth this past week.  I don't run it myself, but I'm considering trying it out.  My deck often suffers from poor turn 2s if I don't draw innervate, and growths help that problem.

The problem with Growth on T2 is you've basically done nothing that turn, and depending on who you are against, it could just smoke you.

Sometimes it's nice to have on T5 if you are dropping a 3 or something.

I'm thinking of dropping Growth and Touch both in lieu of more attack.


Separately, is Shieldbearer awesome or terrible?

I agree that it makes for a bad turn 2.  But on turn 3, you're casting a yeti instead of a harvest golem.  On turn 4, you're casting a druid of the claw.  Maybe turn 5 you innervate out rag.

It's a slow play, but druid doesn't have many two drops, especially if you're not running ancient watcher.  I don't know how much I like it, since I've never played with it, but there are a lot of very successful decks out there running it, so I doubt it's awful.



Shieldbearer is good if you're in position to take advantage of the board state it gives you.  Your cheaper minions can hind behind it and hopefully kill them before they know what happened..  That's why it's one of the best cards in Zoo.  You play it and a flame imp, and they can't really kill your flame imp!  Yeah, you kill it eventually, and maybe it got no value, but you took 15 damage before you could, and warlock's just going to tap for more cards eventually anyway.

In an arena deck though, it's awful.  Most decks aren't focused enough to really take advantage of the 2 or so turns it buys you, so you're just going to be down a card.  There are situations where it's okay, but it's just not worth a card.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #615 on: May 02, 2014, 07:39:13 am »
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Can folks define some terms for me?  I see "aggro" and "ramp up" used to describe decks, but no good definitions.  To me, aggro is what the tank wants, which doesn't make much sense in Hearthstone terms to me.

An aggro deck is an aggressive deck that wants to play cheaper cards with a high damage per mana ratio. An aggro deck will usually run out of cards in hand before their opponent, because their average card is cheaper and weaker, but the goal is to use the short term advantage of cheaper cards to win before the opponent can effectively use all their more expensive cards.

A ramp deck is not as well of a defined term. Generally "to ramp" means to spend early resources to generate more resources per turn later in the game, to deploy more expensive threats earlier than normal. Wild Growth and Pint Sized Summoner both let you use your turn 2 mana for a weaker result, but then let you cast a 4 mana minion a turn early, on turn 3. There isn't a lot of true "ramp" in Hearthstone like there is in MtG, though.
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #616 on: May 02, 2014, 09:59:13 am »
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SO with the ladder having reset for May, I think it makes sense to take a break from ranked play.  I'm getting slammed by real decks.

OK, no, seriously, why are people with multiple legendaries and golden rares hanging out at level 20?  No way to earn gold with quests, so no way to do arena, so... Ah!  Blizzard is trying to get my money.

That... really makes me want to stop playing.
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #617 on: May 02, 2014, 10:13:21 am »
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SO with the ladder having reset for May, I think it makes sense to take a break from ranked play.  I'm getting slammed by real decks.

OK, no, seriously, why are people with multiple legendaries and golden rares hanging out at level 20?  No way to earn gold with quests, so no way to do arena, so... Ah!  Blizzard is trying to get my money.

That... really makes me want to stop playing.
Can you do the quests using unranked?
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #618 on: May 02, 2014, 10:16:54 am »
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SO with the ladder having reset for May, I think it makes sense to take a break from ranked play.  I'm getting slammed by real decks.

OK, no, seriously, why are people with multiple legendaries and golden rares hanging out at level 20?  No way to earn gold with quests, so no way to do arena, so... Ah!  Blizzard is trying to get my money.

That... really makes me want to stop playing.

Its a new season, so everyone will be low on the ladder. They are all playing each other, so it'll take some time until they reach a high rank and things start balancing out.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #619 on: May 02, 2014, 10:17:22 am »
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SO with the ladder having reset for May, I think it makes sense to take a break from ranked play.  I'm getting slammed by real decks.

OK, no, seriously, why are people with multiple legendaries and golden rares hanging out at level 20?  No way to earn gold with quests, so no way to do arena, so... Ah!  Blizzard is trying to get my money.

That... really makes me want to stop playing.
Can you do the quests using unranked?

Yes you can. Unranked works for quests.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #620 on: May 02, 2014, 10:28:22 am »
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Now, here's a question:  How do you use innervate?  Say my opener is Innervate, Yeti, Harvest Golem.. I'll 100% pass turn 1, yeti turn 2, and golem turn 3.  But there are much harder decisions I routinely have to make with my druid deck, and I'm pretty sure I get a lot of them wrong.

Let's start with this one:  Turn1, on the draw, your hand is Innervate x2, Yeti, Cairne, Ysera, Coin.  What's the play?  My pick would be to coin out Yeti.. but maybe coining out Cairne is better?  I'm not sure.

Innervate is a tempo card and as such you generally want to play it as soon as possible in a tempo deck. There is very little reason to not get a Yeti out on turn 1-2 if possible.

The thing to watch out for, as has been mentioned with the coin, is big gaps in your mana curve. Typically Ramp Druids have mana curves concentrated around 5+. So if you innervate out Caire on turn 1 but have nothing to follow up with for the next 4 turns, it might not be worth it.

I've seen a decent amount of druids running wild growth.. probably 50/50 between growth and no growth this past week.  I don't run it myself, but I'm considering trying it out.  My deck often suffers from poor turn 2s if I don't draw innervate, and growths help that problem.

The problem with Growth on T2 is you've basically done nothing that turn, and depending on who you are against, it could just smoke you.

Sometimes it's nice to have on T5 if you are dropping a 3 or something.

I'm thinking of dropping Growth and Touch both in lieu of more attack.


Separately, is Shieldbearer awesome or terrible?

Like Ice Block, Wild Growth and Shieldbearer are terrible in arena, but very good in the right constructed deck. Ramp Druids are very popular now using Wild Growth along with and endless stream of high-cost taunts (DotC, Sunwalker, AoW). Shieldbearer is big in Zoo Warlock where (1) you have lots of ways to buff it (Dire Wolf, Cleric, Argus, Abusive/Dwarf) and (2) you don't care much about card advantage. 0/4 generally won't trade for anything, but it does buy time for your other minions, which is what's important in this kind of aggressive board control deck.
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Kirian

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #621 on: May 02, 2014, 10:36:26 am »
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SO with the ladder having reset for May, I think it makes sense to take a break from ranked play.  I'm getting slammed by real decks.

OK, no, seriously, why are people with multiple legendaries and golden rares hanging out at level 20?  No way to earn gold with quests, so no way to do arena, so... Ah!  Blizzard is trying to get my money.

That... really makes me want to stop playing.

Its a new season, so everyone will be low on the ladder. They are all playing each other, so it'll take some time until they reach a high rank and things start balancing out.

Ah, right... and unlike mid- and late- season, where unranked will be full of people testing out weird decks, they're all in ranked.

(Gabe from PA suggested playing ranked due to people testing powerful decks before using them in ranked, to preserve high ratings.)
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #622 on: May 02, 2014, 11:23:06 am »
+1

The idea of monthly ladder resets is so stupid. It appears to me the only thing it does is cause lots of frustration.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #623 on: May 02, 2014, 11:46:45 am »
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Now, here's a question:  How do you use innervate?  Say my opener is Innervate, Yeti, Harvest Golem.. I'll 100% pass turn 1, yeti turn 2, and golem turn 3.  But there are much harder decisions I routinely have to make with my druid deck, and I'm pretty sure I get a lot of them wrong.

Let's start with this one:  Turn1, on the draw, your hand is Innervate x2, Yeti, Cairne, Ysera, Coin.  What's the play?  My pick would be to coin out Yeti.. but maybe coining out Cairne is better?  I'm not sure.

Innervate is a tempo card and as such you generally want to play it as soon as possible in a tempo deck. There is very little reason to not get a Yeti out on turn 1-2 if possible.

Oh, I agree.  I try to use it early if possible.  The one thing I find myself hardly ever doing, though, is innervating out a harvest golem on turn1.  It's just underwhelming.  I'm not even convinced Harvest Golem is worth playing, although I see it in almost every list.  There are matchups where it's good, such as Warrior or something, but everytime I draw it against zoo I just feel horrible.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #624 on: May 02, 2014, 12:01:44 pm »
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SO with the ladder having reset for May, I think it makes sense to take a break from ranked play.  I'm getting slammed by real decks.

OK, no, seriously, why are people with multiple legendaries and golden rares hanging out at level 20?  No way to earn gold with quests, so no way to do arena, so... Ah!  Blizzard is trying to get my money.

That... really makes me want to stop playing.
Can you do the quests using unranked?

The idea of monthly ladder resets is so stupid. It appears to me the only thing it does is cause lots of frustration.

I actually kinda like it, but I tend to keep myself artificially low in ranked play so I can use it for quests. Now is the time of the season where I just avoid ranked play, and try to just play arena. If I need gold I either take a break from Hearthstone or grind it out in unranked. Once the players who care about ranked play have sorted themselves out, I can run in with a deck that's way better than the average rank 21 deck stomp my way through a quest quickly when I want the gold and then get back to the Arena.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 12:02:46 pm by Jorbles »
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