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Author Topic: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?  (Read 613659 times)

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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #400 on: April 11, 2014, 04:24:23 pm »
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Looks sweet!  I guess it's time to start saving gold for it.
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Jdaki

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #401 on: April 11, 2014, 05:25:56 pm »
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That does look fun! Be a nice mix up at a good time hopefully.

Just had my first Tirion in my current arena run- he is AMAZING! (apart from when silenced :( sad times)
Big part of my current success, though I do seem to be better with the paladin in arena- the power of some of the cards is great- Equality/ Consecration also first time with them both and it wins games better than flame strike perhaps. Anyhow hope I haven't jinxed myself and the run goes a couple more wins.
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #402 on: April 15, 2014, 08:41:30 am »
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Just started playing, unlocked the different classes by playing basic mage (now level 11).  I kinda want to practice with each of the classes (basic decks) as I level them to 10 against the AI (probably playing just expert now that it's unlocked), to get a feel for each class.  Once I know a bit about them, I think I'll build a crappy deck full of basic cards for each and explore matches with real people.  Then try arena once I've got some gold from those wins and stuff.

what's the state of things?  which classes are the most fun to play?  Which classes will the win-centric players be playing?

Who here plays still, and how can I add y'all as friends?

Is there anyway to chat in-game?
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #403 on: April 15, 2014, 08:41:48 am »
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Six mana has literally only one good neutral basic, Ogre.  The others range from really bad to painful.  If you pass up a chance to take an Ogre, you're going to be stuck with Windfury Harpy instead and that's a huge quality drop. (Actually it's such a quality drop that you should probably skip the Harpy). 
Can you explain why?  I look at the harpy and think, "oh, 8 damage", and look at the ogre and say "only 6 damage".  I guess there's more toughness on the Ogre, and other stuff I guess?
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #404 on: April 15, 2014, 08:50:12 am »
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shraeye#1428
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #405 on: April 15, 2014, 09:02:23 am »
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shraeye#1428

Ill add you tonight.

Six mana has literally only one good neutral basic, Ogre.  The others range from really bad to painful.  If you pass up a chance to take an Ogre, you're going to be stuck with Windfury Harpy instead and that's a huge quality drop. (Actually it's such a quality drop that you should probably skip the Harpy). 
Can you explain why?  I look at the harpy and think, "oh, 8 damage", and look at the ogre and say "only 6 damage".  I guess there's more toughness on the Ogre, and other stuff I guess?

The reason there is a drop is because Harpy has low health, and has a hard time killing high health minions. Ogre can survive a hit, even possibly be healed, and deal much more damage. Windfury can be really good, but I think the Shaman cards that let you boost a minion with it are best for Windfury.

As for each class, it depends what you like. Personally I find Priest to be a lot of fun. It has lots of shut down cards that make the game last a long time, and then drop powerful minions and steal his. I also like Warrior, because his cards are interesting and theres a nice balance between dealing damage and taking damage.

I hate Mages. They can die with their Flamestrikes and Pyroblasts. I also find Druid to be boring. Also a bit weak, as they can have a hard time dealing with high health minions. Druid has no easy shutdown spells like Polymorph, Hex or Assassinate.

I general though each class as their schtick, and which class you start with will most likely be determined a bit by the cards you get in your first packs.
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #406 on: April 15, 2014, 09:03:25 am »
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Just started playing, unlocked the different classes by playing basic mage (now level 11).  I kinda want to practice with each of the classes (basic decks) as I level them to 10 against the AI (probably playing just expert now that it's unlocked), to get a feel for each class.  Once I know a bit about them, I think I'll build a crappy deck full of basic cards for each and explore matches with real people.  Then try arena once I've got some gold from those wins and stuff.

what's the state of things?  which classes are the most fun to play?  Which classes will the win-centric players be playing?

Who here plays still, and how can I add y'all as friends?

Is there anyway to chat in-game?

If you win against all expert AI at least once, you get 300 gold. Do it.

Only the basic chat emotes are available, right click on hero.
I am #Grujah2516, but rarely play.

Because Harpy rarely gets to make those 8 damage. She dies to a 5/5, and 5/5 lives. Ogre survives that killing the 5/5. She really needs a clear or weak board to be effective, or lots of taunts on yours side, otherwise is much easier than ogre to deal with.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 09:04:29 am by Grujah »
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Lekkit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #407 on: April 15, 2014, 09:07:20 am »
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If you attack something with Ogre that dies from it, you take their strength in damage. If you attack something and need to hit it twice with a Harpy, you take two times their strength in damage. Add that to the more important fact that while Harpy dies to 5-6 strength guys Ogre doesn't.
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Jdaki

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #408 on: April 15, 2014, 10:11:56 am »
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Basically, the most basic mistake is don't use your minions to hit the other guy in the face, unless they have no minions (that you can trade with favourably) That is why the Harpy doesn't, shouldn't read 8 damage because that would only be if you have it out on an empty board.
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #409 on: April 15, 2014, 10:38:41 am »
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ok, i'm still in the stage where I'm valuing face-damage highly.  I recognize the importance of trades, but I seem to only be mentally willing to trade up.  I'm virtually never trading even, and just getting in maximum face-damage when the other option is to trade down.

I went through the mage and loved it.  Tough, because I don't play enough minions.  However, I love the blue/red (a la Magic) feel to this with tempo + burn.  So I got love for that.  Playing the AI, I lost to the hunter (he got outta my control-range with his Battlecry-summon minions) and I think some other class but I can't remember.  Almost every game ended in a fireball, or double-fireball.  Favorite card: Polymorph.  Fun level: 8/10

Just played through with Warrior vs the normal AI of each class...lost the first match vs Mage when I was figuring out how things worked.  Then won the rest handily.  Played against a person; won handily (granted, they were doing dumb stuff like refusing to trade at all, and trying to out-race me with face damage..."ok, you can hit me for 3 a turn, congrats.  Here's 9 damage").  He has a sort of aggro feel, and I quickly realized that I needed to hold just enough in my hand so that occasional board wipes didn't scare me (a.k.a. roughly starting handsize).  Probably that needs more balancing against clever-humans.  Favorite card: Warsong Commander.  Fun level: 6/10

More research incoming...
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #410 on: April 15, 2014, 10:43:11 am »
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Six mana has literally only one good neutral basic, Ogre.  The others range from really bad to painful.  If you pass up a chance to take an Ogre, you're going to be stuck with Windfury Harpy instead and that's a huge quality drop. (Actually it's such a quality drop that you should probably skip the Harpy). 
Can you explain why?  I look at the harpy and think, "oh, 8 damage", and look at the ogre and say "only 6 damage".  I guess there's more toughness on the Ogre, and other stuff I guess?

Everyone has given good specific answers, but I just wanted to add something about more generally evaluating minions. As Jdaki said, don't think about how much face damage they can do if ignored. If the minion doesn't have charge, there's very good chance that you will never get to attack with it (particularly later in the game -- in this case turn 6 or later), so you have to look at what your opponent will lose before he removes it. This is why generally you like stuff with battlecries and don't like stuff with windfury. Windfury never comes into play unless you actually get to attack.
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Grujah

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #411 on: April 15, 2014, 10:44:17 am »
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I'm virtually never trading even, and just getting in maximum face-damage when the other option is to trade down.

Thing is, if you don't trade even now, your opponent is likely to have a buff or a damage spell which will allow him trade up on his turn and take over the tempo. Ok, this is not always the case, but quite often it is, esp in Arena, I think.
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #412 on: April 15, 2014, 10:58:42 am »
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I'm virtually never trading even, and just getting in maximum face-damage when the other option is to trade down.

Thing is, if you don't trade even now, your opponent is likely to have a buff or a damage spell which will allow him trade up on his turn and take over the tempo. Ok, this is not always the case, but quite often it is, esp in Arena, I think.
That's a good point.  I'm sure that Arena play will differ significantly from silly AI-play, and it's good to know what to be expecting when I transition.
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #413 on: April 15, 2014, 03:52:15 pm »
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The way I value attack vs health in arena depends on minion cost. With a low-cost minion, you're trying to trade it favourably with higher-cost minions--getting a 1-for-1 will often be satisfactory. With a high-cost minion, you're trying to trade it favourably with lower-cost minions--you want a 2-for-1. High attack is better for trading with higher-cost minions (e.g. 3/2 kills a 4/3), and high health is better for trading with lower-cost minions (e.g. 4/5 kills two 3/2's). So on low-cost minions (anything 3 mana or less), prefer higher attack, and on high-cost minions (anything 4 mana or more), prefer higher health. Obviously there are some sanity bounds on this (e.g. yeti is better than turtle).

(The reason 1-mana minions tend to be bad in arena is that you really want 2/1 for the reasons above, but they can be killed for free by ping.)

High health also tends to help against removal spells, which are a major concern for expensive minions. For example, it's a big deal that Flamestrike+ping does not kill an ogre, unlike a Lord of the Arena.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 03:53:51 pm by blueblimp »
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #414 on: April 15, 2014, 03:54:16 pm »
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So what does everyone think the new Naxx legendary?



It's worth noting that with the exception of Soul of the Forest, every single death rattle card is very good (Abomination probably being the second worst, but that card's still awesome).  So playing it doesn't weaken your deck significantly as you were playing a lot of those cards anyway.  I don't think it's insane, but I think it's fine.  It probably wouldn't get played now, but I think it will with the new Naxx cards that will surely have death rattle.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #415 on: April 15, 2014, 04:35:54 pm »
+1

^The main issue with it is that the 1/7 body is pretty worthless and won't kill anything. So to get value out of it, you have to stick a good deathrattle or 2, the play this and trade. Loot Hoarder and Sylvannas rarely stick, but things like Harvest Golem and Cairne would sometimes stick because your opponent doesn't want to bother killing the main body if he can't kill the token as well. The existence of this card may affect that, since you fear leaving Cairne out there to summon 2 Baines. It will also be good with the new Nerubian Egg. It will probably be possible to come up with a deck in which this card is useful especially with all the new deathrattle cards, but you definitely need a lot from the ability to make up for the really weak body.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #416 on: April 15, 2014, 04:41:26 pm »
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Yeah, it is weak.  Like, imagine having Loot Horder and Cairne on the board, and slamming Baron, and trading off both.  You draw two and get two 4/5s, which is awesome.. but how much better than yeti is it?  You get one more card and have a Baron on board.. and that's practically the best case.  There is no card with stats as weak as a 1/7 for 4 mana that gets played now.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #417 on: April 15, 2014, 04:43:30 pm »
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Speaking of Yeti, I recently started running him in my druid deck, and I can't believe how good he is.  After Innervate and Cairne he's probably the best card in the deck.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #418 on: April 15, 2014, 05:11:23 pm »
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I'm not as optimistic, I think Barren is a more-win card that's not going to see play.  He's going to be either a 1/7 Dragonling Mechanic or 1/7 Gnomish Inventor.  You can silence all the Deathrattles and leave him alive.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #419 on: April 15, 2014, 05:16:18 pm »
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Speaking of Yeti, I recently started running him in my druid deck, and I can't believe how good he is.  After Innervate and Cairne he's probably the best card in the deck.

Yeti is a pretty good base card. So is senjin shieldmasta. Senjin holds up even with more expert cards, while Yeti can be out classed although it holds decently well too.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #420 on: April 15, 2014, 05:18:02 pm »
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I'm not as optimistic, I think Barren is a more-win card that's not going to see play.  He's going to be either a 1/7 Dragonling Mechanic or 1/7 Gnomish Inventor.  You can silence all the Deathrattles and leave him alive.

I agree. It's  too difficult to get Deathrattes in play with him around. Then again he only cots 4 mana to play, so it's not impossible. It probably even pays off with just 1 Deathrattle doubled.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #421 on: April 15, 2014, 05:29:36 pm »
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Speaking of Yeti, I recently started running him in my druid deck, and I can't believe how good he is.  After Innervate and Cairne he's probably the best card in the deck.

Yeti is a pretty good base card. So is senjin shieldmasta. Senjin holds up even with more expert cards, while Yeti can be out classed although it holds decently well too.

I've not tried out Senjin in my deck.  I'm already running defender and sunfury protector, so Yeti ends up with taunt a decent amount of the time against aggro decks anyway, and between Yeti/Ancient Watcher/Defender/Sunfury/Keeper I haven't have much of an issue against hunter at all.  Warlock is a little tougher, and probably the reason to play Shieldmasta instead, but I would be much unhappier with Senjin against decks like druid.  Being able to use a Yeti+Hero power to kill a yeti or half of a cairne is huge, being able to straight up kill azure drake is huge, being able to kill 4/5s or 5/5s with a defender buff is huge.  Plus I'm not really playing many Zoo locks recently, it all seems to be hunter, druid, or warrior where I am on the ladder.

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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #422 on: April 15, 2014, 05:47:49 pm »
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I'm not as optimistic, I think Barren is a more-win card that's not going to see play.  He's going to be either a 1/7 Dragonling Mechanic or 1/7 Gnomish Inventor.  You can silence all the Deathrattles and leave him alive.

I agree. It's  too difficult to get Deathrattes in play with him around. Then again he only cots 4 mana to play, so it's not impossible. It probably even pays off with just 1 Deathrattle doubled.

If that 1 Deathrattle is Loot Hoarder or Harvest Golem, no, as I explained, that's not a pay off.  1/7 is usually worse than 2/4 and Mechanic and Inventor aren't good enough to see play as it is. 
Even if you stick an unsilenced Cairne and have something to run it into, which is quite a feat, you just get a Yeti + a 1/7.  Which is not that much better than a Yeti even after you jumped through all those hoops.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #423 on: April 15, 2014, 05:59:22 pm »
+1

Speaking of Yeti, I recently started running him in my druid deck, and I can't believe how good he is.  After Innervate and Cairne he's probably the best card in the deck.

Yeti is a pretty good base card. So is senjin shieldmasta. Senjin holds up even with more expert cards, while Yeti can be out classed although it holds decently well too.

I've not tried out Senjin in my deck.  I'm already running defender and sunfury protector, so Yeti ends up with taunt a decent amount of the time against aggro decks anyway, and between Yeti/Ancient Watcher/Defender/Sunfury/Keeper I haven't have much of an issue against hunter at all.  Warlock is a little tougher, and probably the reason to play Shieldmasta instead, but I would be much unhappier with Senjin against decks like druid.  Being able to use a Yeti+Hero power to kill a yeti or half of a cairne is huge, being able to straight up kill azure drake is huge, being able to kill 4/5s or 5/5s with a defender buff is huge.  Plus I'm not really playing many Zoo locks recently, it all seems to be hunter, druid, or warrior where I am on the ladder.


If you're running a tempo deck like these Druid decks, Yeti is better because it puts more pressure on and the taunt doesn't matter so much; but if you're playing a more defensive deck like a Priest, Sen'jin is better for the taunt to get into late game, especially since you don't really want to run Defenders in those decks that are less likely to have board presence.
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shraeye

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #424 on: April 17, 2014, 09:32:25 am »
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Played through Shaman, including 2 matches in the Ranked arena with the basic deck (competition isn't fierce, since I'm at rank 24 now...if they have any fancy cards, they beat me...if they don't I seem to win).  Really boring.  It was sorta cute, because most of my wins felt combo-ish.  But the overall strategy seems to be to flood the board with underwhelming things like my totems, and 2/2 taunts and whatnot.  Then cast something like Frostwolf Warlord, or 2x Raid Leader.  Yell "surprise!" and then double the surprise with stuff like Rockbiter Weapon and Windfury on the following turn.  I guess there are some ok cards to sustain me to the point where I yell surprise...but I just don't have fun playing "just barely tread water until I lash out for victory".  Favorite card: Frostwolf Warlord (probably telling that my favorite card isn't even a class-card; i guess Ancestral Healing helped sustain me, but it wasn't fun) Fun level: 3/10

Now onto Paladin...
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