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Author Topic: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?  (Read 613368 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #250 on: February 22, 2014, 02:35:34 am »
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Yeah, I very much dislike hunter in arena.  The ability is just so bad, easily the worst one.  There are a few noteworthy cards (Unleash, the removal's fine to good) but nothing enough to make up for the fact that you have an ability that doesn't actually do anything.

It's probably the second worst one.  If enough MTG principles carry over well enough, and I feel that they do, hero targetted damage and hero targetted healing are both bad, but hero targetted healing is worse.  The reason for that is while both of them ignore board position, one of them moves the game towards its ending, giving board position fewer swings to have a negative impact.  The other goes the other direction.  This gets kind of obfuscated by Warrior having these really strong weapons that make him take damage.

Warrior and Hunter are like this huge gap behind everything else, because everything else can have board impact (warlock power pretty easily converts to board impact since two activations=4 damage)
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #251 on: February 25, 2014, 05:00:04 pm »
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I haven't posted here in a while, so I thought I'd comment on the last page of stuff.

Re: vanilla cards in constructed

Yeti in constucted is a thing. Ogre is not, because it has to compete with rare-legendary 6 drops like Cairne, Sylvanas, The Black Knight, Argent Commander, and Sunwalker. But there's no 4's with such big blowout abilities. A lot of decks don't run Yeti because they're too aggro for it, but if you're going to run 4 drop minions, they're going to be Twilight Drake, Violet Teacher, Sen'jin, Yeti, or something class-specific (Water Elemental, Arathi, Kor'kron, Keeper). Yeti can easily make the cut in midrange decks running 3+ 4 drop minions. For a while they were super-popular for Druid, since Innervate+Yeti on turn 1 is sick, but now it seems like more people are either going for Violet Teacher or Ancient Watcher (Yeti in disguise).

Re: warrior aggro in arena

I think not everyone agrees on what the term "aggro" means. Basically all decks vie for board control for a while and then at some point switch to going for the face. Some decks like the all-out aggro Hunter in constructed, the turning point is the coin toss, and for other decks it's after you run out of cards, but usually it's somewhere in-between. Warrior can have it be kind of early because (1) Fiery War Axe and Arathi Weaponsmith can get you a really strong board position early, and (2) Korkron Elite, Reaper, and Heroic are good at going for the face. Mostly I'd say you start picking a little more aggro-minded if you get multiple Reapers and Kor'kron early, since Fiery War Axe and Arathi are good for a more mid-range or control style as well.

Rogue you can start draft aggro from the jump, and is probably the best aggro class. But Warrior, Druid, Mage, and Paladin can also turn into pretty good aggro decks if your draft goes that way. (Hunter you always draft aggro too, but preferably, you just don't pick Hunter.)

Re: Mage being the best class

Mage is probably the best class in arena (Paladin is close). Mage is probably the worst class in constructed (Priest is close). How does this happen? Two reasons:
(1) Weak higher rarity cards. Seriously, there really aren't any good higher rarity Mage cards since Blizzard and Pyroblast got nerfed.
(2) Poor anti-aggro. Aggro is much faster in constructed than in arena because you can really finely tune your aggro deck. Mage doesn't have any useable AoE until turn 6. And mage doesn't have any source of heal besides Ice Barrier, which is not particularly inspiring, since it lacks the versatility to do anything other than heal your hero.

Re: Hunter hero power

It's the worst one, imo. Warrior is similar, but offers a little more versatility. It's usfeul in 2 situations: (1) when you're racing life, and (2) when you're trying to prolong the game. Hunter can only do (1). It's close though, because Hunter can use the hero power to force the game into (1).
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 05:01:14 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #252 on: February 27, 2014, 03:00:35 am »
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Was it this forum's Titandrake I just played Druid vs Druid in arena? (I don't usually look at names in arena, so I'm surprised I even noticed.)
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #253 on: February 27, 2014, 03:03:30 am »
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HME says that too, but I'm not sure it's true.  I think you at least glance at it unconsciously at some point, your subconscious handling it and deciding to throw it away.

I feel like if my full english name was up there for twenty minutes, I would notice.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #254 on: February 27, 2014, 03:04:15 am »
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don't play another game if you haven't yet
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #255 on: February 27, 2014, 03:04:39 am »
+2

There's an 'add last opponent" as friend button that you could use to verify the mystery Titandrake's identity.
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Watno

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #256 on: February 27, 2014, 01:15:18 pm »
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I just started playing this, and it's quite fun.

But does it seriously have no reconnect function? That's even worse than what Goko does when you lose connection for a moment...
Also, is there a way to play untargeted cards by just clicking them instead of dragging them to the play area?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 01:16:36 pm by Watno »
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #257 on: February 27, 2014, 01:22:22 pm »
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I just started playing this, and it's quite fun.

But does it seriously have no reconnect function? That's even worse than what Goko does when you lose connection for a moment...
Also, is there a way to play untargeted cards by just clicking them instead of dragging them to the play area?

Yeah the connection thing is really bad. It even closes the entire game. And I think everything is drag. Maybe there's an option to change that?
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Watno

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #258 on: February 27, 2014, 01:34:59 pm »
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Also, showing the opponent where you're thinking about targeting something seems really stupid.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #259 on: February 27, 2014, 01:37:59 pm »
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Also, showing the opponent where you're thinking about targeting something seems really stupid.

You can also see what cards he's looking at. It highlights anything they are scrolling over.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #260 on: February 27, 2014, 02:32:24 pm »
+1

Also, showing the opponent where you're thinking about targeting something seems really stupid.

It doesn't show what you're thinking about, only where you're actually pointing with your mouse cursor. This makes it a little more like a real life card game. You have to think without actually pointing at stuff in order to not give away information.
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #261 on: February 27, 2014, 02:33:34 pm »
+1

Also, showing the opponent where you're thinking about targeting something seems really stupid.

You can also see what cards he's looking at. It highlights anything they are scrolling over.

I like that feature. It makes it a bit more like playing IRL where you can see when people have a card they are thinking about a lot.
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nkirbit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #262 on: February 27, 2014, 02:39:10 pm »
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Also, showing the opponent where you're thinking about targeting something seems really stupid.

You can also see what cards he's looking at. It highlights anything they are scrolling over.

I like that feature. It makes it a bit more like playing IRL where you can see when people have a card they are thinking about a lot.

I dislike it because it's an asynchronous game.  To me, I should be able to play an asynchronous game exclusively during my turn without losing information... having to pay attention when it's not my turn in an asynchronous game isn't appealing to me, but I do it because it's better than losing some potentially useful information.
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Titandrake

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #263 on: February 27, 2014, 02:41:56 pm »
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Was it this forum's Titandrake I just played Druid vs Druid in arena? (I don't usually look at names in arena, so I'm surprised I even noticed.)

Yeah, that was me. Hopefully my deck does well, it has ridiculous amounts of removal. The problem is that I'm lacking in the creature department, I feel like I have too much utility and not enough beats.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #264 on: February 27, 2014, 02:46:54 pm »
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Also, showing the opponent where you're thinking about targeting something seems really stupid.

You can also see what cards he's looking at. It highlights anything they are scrolling over.

I like that feature. It makes it a bit more like playing IRL where you can see when people have a card they are thinking about a lot.

I dislike it because it's an asynchronous game.  To me, I should be able to play an asynchronous game exclusively during my turn without losing information... having to pay attention when it's not my turn in an asynchronous game isn't appealing to me, but I do it because it's better than losing some potentially useful information.

It's true that you can do better by watching your opponent's turn. You can also do better by opening a notepad file or spreadsheet to count the status of your and your opponents deck and discard pile when playing Dominion online, but you don't usually do it, because it's not worth the effort most of the time.

Your opponent can also mislead you by pretending to have some card that he doesn't. Sometimes while I'm thinking, I leave a damage spell targeted at one of my own minions (not when I'm on a laptop with a touchpad because I might accidentally click).
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #265 on: February 27, 2014, 04:35:47 pm »
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I like the pointing stuff because it makes games go faster.  When a druid points at your 4/4 and ponders for several seconds, you can go ahead and start planning out how that will impact your next turn, like after someone stares at a piece in chess.

It would be really nice if you could see your next draw for turn, too, that would be even better.  By the time you're allowed to make decisions you will have seen that card already so there's little reason not to show it.


If time controls that vary to match the number of available decisions gets implemented (which I hope is something that happens), then Hearthstone can start going a whole lot faster and there will be less desire to play it in an asynchronous manner.  Ideally the time controls should be tweaked such that you want to use all the time in your opponent's turn for thinking, like in chess or blitz chess.  Right now the time control is the same whether you have two auctioneers out, three other minions, and 14 cards to work with, or whether you have 1 mana and a fistful of three drops.  It's a tad silly.
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Watno

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #266 on: February 28, 2014, 07:02:15 pm »
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I'd guess it rather makes the game slower, because players will try to think without moving their mouse to help visualizing.

There really needs to be a different time limit system. Someone just tried to slow-roll me, waiting out the timer close to the end in 4 of 8 turns without doing anything. Is there some way to report people for such a thing?

It's really funny to see how Blizzard makes many of the same mistakes Goko does.
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KingZog3

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #267 on: February 28, 2014, 07:51:06 pm »
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I'd guess it rather makes the game slower, because players will try to think without moving their mouse to help visualizing.

There really needs to be a different time limit system. Someone just tried to slow-roll me, waiting out the timer close to the end in 4 of 8 turns without doing anything. Is there some way to report people for such a thing?

It's really funny to see how Blizzard makes many of the same mistakes Goko does.

The time thing is actually good. If they time-out on a turn, their next turn is immediately put on a timer. Otherwise it's hard to find out who's slow-rolling. The game can't tell who's slow-rolling and who's actually thinking.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #268 on: February 28, 2014, 09:58:10 pm »
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I'm doing really well in Arena, which is good because it's like hey, free packs! But it's bad, because I don't want to buy packs with gold because what if I go on a losing streak, and then don't have gold to play more arena because I spent it all on packs?
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #269 on: February 28, 2014, 11:43:42 pm »
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I'm doing really well in Arena, which is good because it's like hey, free packs! But it's bad, because I don't want to buy packs with gold because what if I go on a losing streak, and then don't have gold to play more arena because I spent it all on packs?
Yeah, you probably shouldn't buy packs.  In moments of weakness I end up buying packs, but if I had to set a minimum cushion size before doing so, I would restrict myself from buying packs with less than 1000 gold.
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Titandrake

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #270 on: March 01, 2014, 12:06:13 am »
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The only reason to buy packs is if you prefer constructed to arena, or if you really want to get all the cards. If you're a collector, then any interesting card is likely epic or legendary, and you'd be better off with the random dust awards from arena than the packs. Not sure what the rough equivalent dust<->gold is, but from packs it's not that good.
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #271 on: March 01, 2014, 12:56:04 am »
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Also, showing the opponent where you're thinking about targeting something seems really stupid.
It's a weird feature. On one hand, it's kinda cool to feel more connection with your opponent as they are playing. On the other hand, the natural response from competitive players will be to avoid moving their mouse at all until deciding on their entire turn (or at least up to the first RNG moment). So eventually you'd expect to the player base to converge on making the feature irrelevant by not giving away info.

From a software engineering economics standpoint, that strikes me as very odd. Why spend engineering effort to implement a feature that provides players an incentive to not use it? I guess it's still nice for casual players.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #272 on: March 01, 2014, 01:20:39 am »
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My guess was that it was originally in there for the debug value, then they somehow found it too endearing to cut.
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Lekkit

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #273 on: March 01, 2014, 12:39:44 pm »
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I usually mouse hover random cards and move my cursor around to let my opponent know that I haven't randomly disconnected or is being AFK. I look for this in opponents as well when they are taking a long time between actions. Also, it's pretty easy to bluff, which I think is a pretty fun addition. I like mindgames (not the card).
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #274 on: March 01, 2014, 12:46:10 pm »
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The only reason to buy packs is if you prefer constructed to arena, or if you really want to get all the cards. If you're a collector, then any interesting card is likely epic or legendary, and you'd be better off with the random dust awards from arena than the packs. Not sure what the rough equivalent dust<->gold is, but from packs it's not that good.

There's also a time issue. Arena is more gold-efficient at getting you stuff, but much less time efficient.
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