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Author Topic: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?  (Read 613436 times)

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Twistedarcher

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #200 on: January 24, 2014, 02:05:07 pm »
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Yeah, he was trashing cards very very quickly (he had 8 when I started doing this), and I guess never had a holy nova in hand. His deck honestly wasn't that great, but it was still cool to see it happen.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #201 on: January 24, 2014, 02:25:00 pm »
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I got to level 10 in a couple of hours with the mage last night. (Think I only lost one game on the way, people dont really have a clue do they?)

Can't do arena yet until I have played all the different classes, which is a bit annoying as most of them seem to be Hunters! (Grrr, WOW Hunters!)

You can also unlock classes through practice mode, and choose the classes you play that way.
You can also unlock classes and basic cards by challenging a player on your friends list.  This means you can get to level 10 on all classes by fighting an opponent who intentionally loses out of benevolence.  This works for unlocking basic cards but can't be exploited for anything else of value in the game.  (Concessions count, too)
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Ozle

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #202 on: January 24, 2014, 05:41:10 pm »
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Cheers, ill play the practice decks tomorrow then, seems a bit of a cheap way though (Although not as much as friend quitting! )
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heron

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #203 on: January 24, 2014, 06:26:55 pm »
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I didn't know I would get gold for beating all of the expert practice heros.
So far, they are easier than the basic ones. The AI still needs some work, like having your scavenging hyena attack after you kill your 1/1 hound so that you can actually kill my minion. Or, you know, not playing unleash the hounds when I have 1 minion on the board.

I guess this game is even harder to make an AI for than dominion though since there so many cards, but they could limit the bots to playing just a few decks to make it more of a challenge.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #204 on: January 24, 2014, 06:53:59 pm »
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I didn't know I would get gold for beating all of the expert practice heros.
So far, they are easier than the basic ones. The AI still needs some work, like having your scavenging hyena attack after you kill your 1/1 hound so that you can actually kill my minion. Or, you know, not playing unleash the hounds when I have 1 minion on the board.

I guess this game is even harder to make an AI for than dominion though since there so many cards, but they could limit the bots to playing just a few decks to make it more of a challenge.

There's an infinite supply of people in the queue to practice against, bots aren't really necessary.  There's a couple there as a formality for your very first one or two games.

Much later they plan to do an Adventure mode which I expect will be more challenging.
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #205 on: January 24, 2014, 06:58:36 pm »
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AI for this should be easier than Dominion. In Dominion, the hardest part of doing AI is picking a reasonable strategy for the kingdom. In Hearthstone, little strategy is required since you already have a deck built. Concepts like card advantage are quantifiable enough that writing a usable evaluation function shouldn't be too bad. It's simpler than writing a Magic AI because your turn's progress is far more predictable, making calculating tactics more feasible.

Seems like a fun game AI project actually.
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heron

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #206 on: January 24, 2014, 08:24:24 pm »
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I didn't know I would get gold for beating all of the expert practice heros.
So far, they are easier than the basic ones. The AI still needs some work, like having your scavenging hyena attack after you kill your 1/1 hound so that you can actually kill my minion. Or, you know, not playing unleash the hounds when I have 1 minion on the board.

I guess this game is even harder to make an AI for than dominion though since there so many cards, but they could limit the bots to playing just a few decks to make it more of a challenge.

There's an infinite supply of people in the queue to practice against, bots aren't really necessary.  There's a couple there as a formality for your very first one or two games.

Much later they plan to do an Adventure mode which I expect will be more challenging.

Yeah, but if you buy zaps you can swap out cards in your opponent's deck with wisps.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #207 on: January 24, 2014, 10:06:17 pm »
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So for some reason when I go to download Hearthstone, it just goes to a page on Battle.net saying "An error has occured".

EDIT: This also happens anywhere I try to do things with my battle.net account apparently.

EDIT the second: Logged in with a different account and it works. Apparently just my main account is fail.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 10:09:28 pm by Drab Emordnilap »
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #208 on: January 24, 2014, 11:03:19 pm »
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AI for this should be easier than Dominion. In Dominion, the hardest part of doing AI is picking a reasonable strategy for the kingdom. In Hearthstone, little strategy is required since you already have a deck built. Concepts like card advantage are quantifiable enough that writing a usable evaluation function shouldn't be too bad. It's simpler than writing a Magic AI because your turn's progress is far more predictable, making calculating tactics more feasible.

Seems like a fun game AI project actually.


Magic is not that hard either to be honest.  Duels of the Planeswalkers sure sells just fine.  But the turn structure helps for Hearthstone for sure.

If anyone wants to help me build a bot that can go infinite at arena, farm all the cards, and then sell the account for cash, we can go 50/50 on it
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Titandrake

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #209 on: January 25, 2014, 01:46:20 am »
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If an enemy mage has Mirror Entity active, and has 7 minions out, then playing a minion won't trigger the secret. I just played an Argent Protector, didn't proc the secret so I guessed a different one, killed a minion, then dropped an Abomination that got copied. Maaaan. In my defense, Mages don't usually have 7 creatures out.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #210 on: January 25, 2014, 02:39:14 am »
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If an enemy mage has Mirror Entity active, and has 7 minions out, then playing a minion won't trigger the secret. I just played an Argent Protector, didn't proc the secret so I guessed a different one, killed a minion, then dropped an Abomination that got copied. Maaaan. In my defense, Mages don't usually have 7 creatures out.
That's one of the things they need to document/define better.  It'd be nice if each card had footnotes.  There's apparently an unwritten rule that if a secret wouldn't do anything, it just doesn't trigger.  Cept the time they violated that rule so that my Vaporize "killed" my 6/0 creature that was attacking myself, because of Misdirection+Explosive Trap.

Misdirection also won't trigger if there is no other legal target to attack.  A character cannot attack itself, that's another unwritten rule, one that's no more intuitive than characters being able to attack friendlies, but only due to card effects.

I'm still not sure how Freezing Trap/Explosive Trap ordering works.

Redemption is a pretty sweet piece of inconsistency because it will debuff minions that were 1/1 to begin with.  It will actually leave a visual debuff on the 1/1, even though using Crazed Alchemist on a 1/1 will cause no visual debuff/buff even on mouseover.
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Titandrake

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #211 on: January 25, 2014, 04:15:12 am »
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If an enemy mage has Mirror Entity active, and has 7 minions out, then playing a minion won't trigger the secret. I just played an Argent Protector, didn't proc the secret so I guessed a different one, killed a minion, then dropped an Abomination that got copied. Maaaan. In my defense, Mages don't usually have 7 creatures out.
That's one of the things they need to document/define better.  It'd be nice if each card had footnotes.  There's apparently an unwritten rule that if a secret wouldn't do anything, it just doesn't trigger.  Cept the time they violated that rule so that my Vaporize "killed" my 6/0 creature that was attacking myself, because of Misdirection+Explosive Trap.

Misdirection also won't trigger if there is no other legal target to attack.  A character cannot attack itself, that's another unwritten rule, one that's no more intuitive than characters being able to attack friendlies, but only due to card effects.

I'm still not sure how Freezing Trap/Explosive Trap ordering works.

Redemption is a pretty sweet piece of inconsistency because it will debuff minions that were 1/1 to begin with.  It will actually leave a visual debuff on the 1/1, even though using Crazed Alchemist on a 1/1 will cause no visual debuff/buff even on mouseover.

I believe secrets are triggered in the order that they are played, and no state based effects are triggered until all secrets are done. That's the only way it makes sense for a 6/0 to trigger Vaporize.

Freeze Trap + Exploding Trap should trigger both, dealing 2 damage to everything and bouncing the minion. Even if the minion has 2 or fewer health, it should be returned to your hand before the game checks for 0 health.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #212 on: January 26, 2014, 09:51:33 pm »
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eh.. you still won't placate me about repentance.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #213 on: January 27, 2014, 09:24:51 pm »
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Argh, it's immensely frustrating to lose because a rule doesn't work the way I think it will.

He had an ironbark protector (or whatever it is, the 8/8 druid taunter) out. He traded it down to a 8/2, then played a crazed alchemist, turning it into a 2/8. I then silenced it, thinking I'd be dealing with a 8/2 that I could easily kill, but nope, it's back to a 8/8! Why does silence work this way? The damage wasn't an "card text, enchantment, or ability", it's hit points that are gone, so why does it heal back up?
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #214 on: January 28, 2014, 12:01:57 am »
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Argh, it's immensely frustrating to lose because a rule doesn't work the way I think it will.

He had an ironbark protector (or whatever it is, the 8/8 druid taunter) out. He traded it down to a 8/2, then played a crazed alchemist, turning it into a 2/8. I then silenced it, thinking I'd be dealing with a 8/2 that I could easily kill, but nope, it's back to a 8/8! Why does silence work this way? The damage wasn't an "card text, enchantment, or ability", it's hit points that are gone, so why does it heal back up?
I agree in general (that it's annoying that there isn't a rulebook to consult for edge cases), but in Hearthstone, unlike Magic, you want to be thinking about current health and not about damage taken. Health buffs increase current health, but health debuffs don't decrease current health (and so damage taken is reduced). When you silenced the tree, the max health stayed at 8, so the current health wasn't pushed down. This isn't completely precise, to be fair.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #215 on: January 28, 2014, 12:59:29 am »
+1

Crazed alchemist sets both current health and maximum health to the value of the minion's attack.  The text is ambiguous about that, but that's what it does.  The 2/8 Ironbark was an undamaged Ironbark, his current health and maximum health were the same.

The difference between health and max health is ambiguous and often uses the same words and confusing, and I hate it a little bit.
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Dsell

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #216 on: January 31, 2014, 02:24:52 pm »
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I've been super busy lately but I'm sick today so I think I'm gonna finally see what this is all about.
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #217 on: January 31, 2014, 11:28:21 pm »
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Just had a "dear my opponent, I am sorry" moment in Arena. I'm playing Mage vs his Warlock.

Me: Mana Wyrm
Him: Blood Imp, Coin, Flame Imp
Me: top-decked Frostbolt to kill Flame Imp
Him: Life Tap
Me: Raging Worgen
Him: Life Tap
Me: Defender of Argus
Him: Ancient Mage
Me: Fireblast Worgen, win

About as fast as I've seen it in arena. Very lucky draws.
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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #218 on: February 01, 2014, 12:19:13 am »
+1



No idea if this has been patched, but Husky is always so much fun.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #219 on: February 01, 2014, 05:04:42 am »
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Anyone else struggling to get a win now that all the good players are back in the 20s?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #220 on: February 01, 2014, 04:51:46 pm »
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Anyone else struggling to get a win now that all the good players are back in the 20s?

I am holding steady around 14 with only one legendary in my deck. Just can't beat people who have 3+ in theirs.
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Jorbles

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #221 on: February 01, 2014, 05:17:35 pm »
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Anyone else struggling to get a win now that all the good players are back in the 20s?

I am holding steady around 14 with only one legendary in my deck. Just can't beat people who have 3+ in theirs.

I haven't played much ranked constructed and I've got to say I find it weird playing rank 25 people who have decks made of legendaries, epics and rares. Arena seems so much fairer.
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popsofctown

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #222 on: February 01, 2014, 08:17:26 pm »
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Anyone else struggling to get a win now that all the good players are back in the 20s?

I am holding steady around 14 with only one legendary in my deck. Just can't beat people who have 3+ in theirs.

I haven't played much ranked constructed and I've got to say I find it weird playing rank 25 people who have decks made of legendaries, epics and rares. Arena seems so much fairer.
The season just started and Blizzard has no data on first time ranked players.  Cut them a break.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #223 on: February 03, 2014, 12:07:51 am »
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Anyone else struggling to get a win now that all the good players are back in the 20s?

I am holding steady around 14 with only one legendary in my deck. Just can't beat people who have 3+ in theirs.

Totally didn't realize the ladder had reset when I posted this, oops...
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blueblimp

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Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« Reply #224 on: February 03, 2014, 12:52:43 am »
+1

After playing some more, I've come to like some things that bothered me at first.

Most of the RNG cards are fine. There are enough interesting tactics involved in setting up good situations to play them that some of them are pretty fun, such as Mad Bomber, Knife Juggler, and MC Tech. Usually it's clear whether you got lucky or unlucky, so you just need to adopt a mindset where you're trying to make good plays each turn and not worry too much about the game result.

Class-specific cards are critical for arena variety. For one class, most arena runs plays pretty similarly overall. Having nine classes at least means there are nine different ways to experience arena. It's also nice that you have some idea about what your opponent might play so that you can plan more easily.

My wishes for how the game will develop:

I'd like to see some of the stronger cards become more interesting. Cards with interesting battlecries are fun, like Shattered Sun Cleric and Dark Iron Dwarf. But strong vanilla cards like Chillwind Yeti and Boulderfist Ogre are pretty boring.

I'd also like to see a play mode somewhere in between Constructed and Arena. I'd want it to have more flexibility in deck-building than Arena has, while retaining the randomness in card availability and being non-pay-to-win. For example, it'd be interesting to have a mode where you're given a dust limit and a random pool of cards and need to make a deck out of that.
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