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[jackelfrink]

I was looking over the secret histories posts when I came across one card that did not make the cut.

Landfill
Action-Victory
Trash a card from the supply costing $6 or less
-
Worth 1 vp per 3 vp cards in the trash.

The reason for the cut was that it was too swinggy depending on how many players went for it. But I got to wondering about another issue regarding alternative victory points. Gardens for example. If all ten gardens were in the trash, then landfill as worded would be worth three points. But if instead it said "Worth 1 vp per 3 vp in the trash." then it would change to being ten points in the trash making each Landfill worth three points.

Im sure some of you have already seen the problem already. What would happen if Landfill were placed in the trash? Say there were an estate and one landfill in the trash at the end of the game. No problem. Landfill would be worth one divided by three rounded down points. One from estate plus zero from landfill would be one point total in the trash. At the other end of the scale, one estate in the trash with four landfills would mean that the total number of points in the trash would be negative three. Each landfill would be negative three divided by three points. One positive estate point plus four negative landfill points would corrector be negative one for the trash. But one estate in the trash with three landfills would give indeterminate score. There is no number where total points in the trash divided by three times three then add one would still be equal to the number of points in the trash.

Just saying landfill cant trash itself wouldn't fix it as you could trash landfill by other methods.

[BadAssMutha]

Your post is kinda confusing, but I think you're getting at the self-synergy of a card which counts VP in the trash, when it winds up in the trash itself. This is a really confusing, terrible way to word a VP card. There is no unique solution to the problem. With 1 estate and 4 landfills in the trash, the landfills could be worth -1, 0, or 1 VP. With 1 estate and 3 landfills in the trash, you do get an indeterminate score, but that's because ANYTHING works, not nothing. Landfills can be worth ANY amount when there are exactly 3 in the trash and not more than 2 VP otherwise - 1 million VP landfills, woohoo!

(1 Estate VP + 0 Landfill VP x 3)/3 = 1VP/3 = 0 VP per Landfill
(1 Estate VP + 1 Landfill VP x 3)/3 = 4VP/3 = 1 VP per Landfill
(1 Estate VP + -1 Landfill VP x 3)/3 = -2VP/3 = -1 VP per Landfill
(1 Estate VP + 1 million Landfill VP x 3)/3 = 3,000,001 VP/3 = ONE MILLION VP per Landfill


The way the card is worded, I don't think landfill could be worth negative VP.

Also, gardens in the trash are worth 0 VP - since there's no owner, there's no deck to count!

[jackelfrink]

Also, gardens in the trash are worth 0 VP - since there's no owner, there's no deck to count!

Doh, I hadn't thought of this. Ok, now it all is a bit clearer.

And to clean up a bit of what I said, this hypothetical new landfill would be worth VP, not worth VP-chips.

Anyway, back to the drawing board .....