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[GeoLib]

So I've been played Dominion for a few years, I played on Iso, I own a couple sets and my friends own others, and this summer I decided to give Goko a shot. I got the extension (thank you so much, you guys), and boosted my rating by beating up on bots with base (boring), and am now high enough to enter the 5k+ restricted games people host with all the cards. Finding a game can be difficult, however, as it involves entering several lobbies from different tabs and switching between them to hunt for a game. One of the things I liked about Iso is that it took maybe 10-15min to find and play an average game, so it was a quick break, whereas playing on Goko feels like somewhat of a chore.

So now I'm considering buying in. As I understand their strange currency system, it costs me $45 to get all the expansions, which isn't unreasonable, but I'm a poor college student, so it isn't nothing either. So I was thinking I might ask the f.ds community for their input.

For those who have bought all the cards, was it worth it? Is it significantly easier to find a quick game?

I remember there being security issues with Goko in the past, so when I signed up when they initially launched (or rather when they relaunched in such a way that I was actually able to make an account), I used an old junk email address. If I'm going to buy the things I want to be able to move the account to my real gmail/google+ (based on their FAQ it looks like one-time account merges are possible), and I'd like to know that it's safe to enter my credit card information. It looks like payment is powered by "ultimate pay." Does someone with more knowledge about web security and the Goko situation know if it would be secure to use my credit card info and my real email address?

Thanks!

[Twistedarcher]

In before all the Goko-bashing.

Goko is a perfectly good place to play dominion. I bought all the cards, and have rarely had to wait more than 1 or 2 minutes to find a game. I've never had any security issues, or any other issues really. The cool features added by the extension help, as well. Wait time will probably go down even more with automatch, but it's not a necessity by any means.

If you like Dominion, and liked playing it on Isotropic, you will enjoy Goko perfectly fine, and the cards will be a worthwhile investment.

[AHoppy]

The time issue is the biggest deterrant for me.  If it was as easy to find a game as it was on Iso (click 2 player, wait max 5 min and play) then I might consider it.  But seeing as I own all the physical sets, my friends at school are (almost) always willing to play, it's not worth the $45 to me... Also being a poor college student, I don't feel the need to spend more $$$ on Dominion.  But I'm sure that by owning all the sets you will find games much faster.

[StrongRhino]

I never experienced not owning sets (bought them as soon as iso went down) I would reccomend it. The wait is never that long, and Goko isn't really as bad as people make it seem, escpecially with the extension.
My opinion on this stuff is if you want to play dominion online and care about dominion, you would play any way you can. Right now, that means Goko.

[popsofctown]

Question, does Goko still require you to play singleplayer to get promos?

[hsiale]

Yes (Governor, Walled Village, Envoy). You need 300 shields to get them. But 300 is possible to get avoiding the worst adventures that exist (Acts 3 and most of Acts 2 Seaside and Hinterlands). And if you play multiplayer a lot, you will get enough zaps so that doing the boring part will be quick.

[Beyond Awesome]

I would buy all the sets. You will get a lot more games in which means more experience with the cards which means you will get better as a player. Also, you can customize boards and play against the bots to try out different strategies or combos to get practice with them.

[Kirian]

If it was as easy to find a game as it was on Iso (click 2 player, wait max 5 min and play)

Since having all sets, I have not waited more than 5 minutes for a game.  Almost always less.

[GendoIkari]

Well I'm not going to bash Goko, but I will link to the post I made that contains 7 reasons why I do not play on Goko (and will not play on Goko until these issues are addressed): http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7471.msg214160#msg214160

[blueblimp]

It is easy to get a game when having all cards, with one caveat. It makes sense that it's easy: think about how tedious it is to find an open game to join. Then consider that people with all cards are _making_ the open games... so they must not be staying open for long.

The caveat is that it becomes harder if you want to play someone above ~5000 or so, because players are spread randomly among the rooms, so you might not have an available high-ranked player in the room you're in. I set 4000++ and most times have no problem getting a joiner. Sometimes I'll need to flip between a few different rooms before getting a game, which is annoying but doesn't happen too often.

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

So yeah, if the only thing you're worried about is difficulty of finding a game, then go for it. Any other deal-breakers you would have noticed already.

[Watno]

It's really no problem finding a game if you have cards, and I think in 5 minutes you'll mostly even find one without owning the cards.
Anyway, I'd also love more people using AI's automatch.

[ragingduckd]

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

Stupid need for critical mass...

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Two features I'm considering adding to address the critical mass problem:
1. Search for and auto-join compatible games in other lobbies when you submit an automatch request
2. (Optionally) send out an automatch request whenever you create a "5000+"-type table

[jsh357]

I have not been using it a lot because I like playing with the biggest variety of players (who don't do dumb things like stallquit) I can.  Unfortunately, not everyone's using Automatch...

[Voltaire]

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

I thought Salvager would auto-update like before (was that only when it was GreaseMonkey?) Now it seems I'm running the old version where Automatch isn't working. I'll check when I get home.

[Voltaire]

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

I thought Salvager would auto-update like before (was that only when it was GreaseMonkey?) Now it seems I'm running the old version where Automatch isn't working. I'll check when I get home.

So Salvager wasn't updating from 2.0 to 2.1 - "check for updates" found none, nor did "auto update" or anything like that. But when I went to the add-on in the Firefox store or whatever, it worked. FYI!

[WanderingWinder]

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

Stupid need for critical mass...

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Two features I'm considering adding to address the critical mass problem:
1. Search for and auto-join compatible games in other lobbies when you submit an automatch request
2. (Optionally) send out an automatch request whenever you create a "5000+"-type table

I just generally don't want to download the extension?

[Beyond Awesome]

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

Stupid need for critical mass...

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Two features I'm considering adding to address the critical mass problem:
1. Search for and auto-join compatible games in other lobbies when you submit an automatch request
2. (Optionally) send out an automatch request whenever you create a "5000+"-type table

Option 2 sounds like a very good idea.

[Voltaire]

[GeoLib]

I've been using automatch and really appreciate all the work ragingduckd's been doing on the extension, but yeah, the critical mass hasn't been reached yet. I still send an automatch request whenever I get in, but rarely get a match through that.

[SCSN]

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

Stupid need for critical mass...

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Two features I'm considering adding to address the critical mass problem:
1. Search for and auto-join compatible games in other lobbies when you submit an automatch request
2. (Optionally) send out an automatch request whenever you create a "5000+"-type table

I am using it but only out of a sense of obligation, not because it really benefits me. The problem is that I have to take 3 actions (click Automatch, set rating range, click "Ok") each time I want a game for nothing in return (I've been successfully matched once). Goko just matches me faster and gives a nice little ping as a bonus, so that I don't have to periodically check the Goko tabs whether someone has shown up. There's a bit of a Catch-22 situation in that it needs critical mass to really work well, but that people generally won't expend much effort to reach that critical mass unless it already works well.

I think that option 2, and, importantly, having it enabled by default, would improve things alot though.

[blueblimp]

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

Stupid need for critical mass...

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Two features I'm considering adding to address the critical mass problem:
1. Search for and auto-join compatible games in other lobbies when you submit an automatch request
2. (Optionally) send out an automatch request whenever you create a "5000+"-type table

Well I use automatch sometimes and I think there are two main things that would help adoption, though, maybe your ideas are better.

First is if the interface were a little more communicative. When you first click the Automatch link and hit Submit, then the window disappears, and it's not clear that anything is happening. Unless you have an early adopter personality, you may give up at that point and not try it again. Furthermore, even if you do click the link to open the window again, it's hard to know whether you should wait for the automatch or just find a game the normal way.

What I'd suggest for that is having the automatch window permanently stuck on the right side of the UI, where the log appears during a game. That way you can see the "looking for match" message. Also at all times show all players with automatch currently activated, same as the status page would show, which helps give the impression it's working. Then beep when a game is found--this is much more important than you might think, since I don't mind leaving automatch open in the background while browsing (say) f.ds, except that I can't tell when I get a match.

The second thing is the chicken-and-egg problem where if zero people are looking for automatch, then the first person to click it won't get a game for a while. The suggestion I made in the previous paragraph about always showing the players looking for automatch will help, because if you see, hey, someone is looking for a match, you're encouraged to click the button yourself. Wouldn't hurt to show their rating too so that you know whether the match would be successful.

The other thing contributing to the chicken-and-egg problem is that, although the server view shows you the extension users who are logged in, it doesn't tell you which of them (A) actually make use of automatch and (B) aren't in a game. If I were able to see a player who has used automatch in the past, with a rating in the ballpark of mine, and that they aren't in a game, it'd be highly encouraged to click the button because maybe they will click it too and we'll be matched. Even if all such players are currently in a game, if I see a few who have used automatch in the past, I'd still be encouraged.

To sum up, the main point is to show more information that encourages players to try searching for a match. The other point was the beep so that it's not as awkward to wait a while for a match.

[ragingduckd]

2) Notification sound when a match is found

Can you add a beep, or some sound like the extension does when you find an automatch?

... and gives a nice little ping as a bonus, so that I don't have to periodically check the Goko tabs whether someone has shown up.

The other point was the beep so that it's not as awkward to wait a while for a match.

Wait, wait. I think I get it. When a match is found, you guys want... crap. What was it again?

[Beyond Awesome]

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

Stupid need for critical mass...

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Two features I'm considering adding to address the critical mass problem:
1. Search for and auto-join compatible games in other lobbies when you submit an automatch request
2. (Optionally) send out an automatch request whenever you create a "5000+"-type table

Well I use automatch sometimes and I think there are two main things that would help adoption, though, maybe your ideas are better.

First is if the interface were a little more communicative. When you first click the Automatch link and hit Submit, then the window disappears, and it's not clear that anything is happening. Unless you have an early adopter personality, you may give up at that point and not try it again. Furthermore, even if you do click the link to open the window again, it's hard to know whether you should wait for the automatch or just find a game the normal way.

What I'd suggest for that is having the automatch window permanently stuck on the right side of the UI, where the log appears during a game. That way you can see the "looking for match" message. Also at all times show all players with automatch currently activated, same as the status page would show, which helps give the impression it's working. Then beep when a game is found--this is much more important than you might think, since I don't mind leaving automatch open in the background while browsing (say) f.ds, except that I can't tell when I get a match.

The second thing is the chicken-and-egg problem where if zero people are looking for automatch, then the first person to click it won't get a game for a while. The suggestion I made in the previous paragraph about always showing the players looking for automatch will help, because if you see, hey, someone is looking for a match, you're encouraged to click the button yourself. Wouldn't hurt to show their rating too so that you know whether the match would be successful.

The other thing contributing to the chicken-and-egg problem is that, although the server view shows you the extension users who are logged in, it doesn't tell you which of them (A) actually make use of automatch and (B) aren't in a game. If I were able to see a player who has used automatch in the past, with a rating in the ballpark of mine, and that they aren't in a game, it'd be highly encouraged to click the button because maybe they will click it too and we'll be matched. Even if all such players are currently in a game, if I see a few who have used automatch in the past, I'd still be encouraged.

To sum up, the main point is to show more information that encourages players to try searching for a match. The other point was the beep so that it's not as awkward to wait a while for a match.

These are great ideas. I already use Automatch, and I have been matched up a few times successfully. It does seem to reduce the wait time a little. I really like the idea of showing people looking for a game and their rating. I think making Automatch default is a good idea as well.

But, blueblimp really has a lot of great ideas here.

[ragingduckd]

Indeed. Thank you all for your suggestions and for you candor. I haven't really thought seriously about the design of the Automatch UI, but it's clear that it's just not going to be a useful feature until it's really obvious and nearly automatic to use. Your ideas on how to make that happen are very useful.

SCSN and whoever else, please don't use Automatch out of a sense of obligation. The feature will stand on its own when I/we get it right, and one person just can't make that much difference in the mean time.

Finally, please don't think that I've been ignoring your feature requests. There's been a steep learning curve for me to get the hang of both collaborative work and of browser extensions. I've gotten a lot of help from michaeljb and I'm finally starting to feel competent with the extensions, rake, and git. So you'll get your beep and more soon. Promise.

[Beyond Awesome]

Indeed. Thank you all for your suggestions and for you candor. I haven't really thought seriously about the design of the Automatch UI, but it's clear that it's just not going to be a useful feature until it's really obvious and nearly automatic to use. Your ideas on how to make that happen are very useful.

SCSN and whoever else, please don't use Automatch out of a sense of obligation. The feature will stand on its own when I/we get it right, and one person just can't make that much difference in the mean time.

Finally, please don't think that I've been ignoring your feature requests. There's been a steep learning curve for me to get the hang of both collaborative work and of browser extensions. I've gotten a lot of help from michaeljb and I'm finally starting to feel competent with the extensions, rake, and git. So you'll get your beep and more soon. Promise.

I don't feel like you have ignored our requests at all. I am really impressed with what you, nutki and michaeljb have all contributed. I don't know anything about programming, but it seems like you guys have put a lot of work into all of this. So, I am very, very grateful.

[sudgy]

Actually, one thing that might help automatch is to have a setting where it automatically will start with you looking for a game.

[yed]

Actually, one thing that might help automatch is to have a setting where it automatically will start with you looking for a game.

I don't think this is that good idea. Sometimes you want to play with friend or rematch and you would be automatched before you could say you don't want it.

[ragingduckd]

Actually, one thing that might help automatch is to have a setting where it automatically will start with you looking for a game.

I don't think this is that good idea. Sometimes you want to play with friend or rematch and you would be automatched before you could say you don't want it.

Agreed... I think making it optional and easy to enable/disable would be essential.

[Awaclus]

I'm not sure if having the option to auto-automatch would be a bad idea. You could disable the auto-automatching from the extension settings menu, so if you want to play against a friend or something, you can. And for people who don't have friends playing on Goko, such as myself, it would be convenient (though wouldn't really help with the problem as I always enable the automatching manually anyway).

And I'm pretty sure that there are other, more important features that need (or "need") implementing than this.

[yed]

I'm not sure if having the option to auto-automatch would be a bad idea. You could disable the auto-automatching from the extension settings menu, so if you want to play against a friend or something, you can. And for people who don't have friends playing on Goko, such as myself, it would be convenient (though wouldn't really help with the problem as I always enable the automatching manually anyway).

And you have never asked for rematch in Outpost?

[Awaclus]

I'm not sure if having the option to auto-automatch would be a bad idea. You could disable the auto-automatching from the extension settings menu, so if you want to play against a friend or something, you can. And for people who don't have friends playing on Goko, such as myself, it would be convenient (though wouldn't really help with the problem as I always enable the automatching manually anyway).

And you have never asked for rematch in Outpost?

That's a fair point.

[Kirian]

I'm not sure if having the option to auto-automatch would be a bad idea. You could disable the auto-automatching from the extension settings menu, so if you want to play against a friend or something, you can. And for people who don't have friends playing on Goko, such as myself, it would be convenient (though wouldn't really help with the problem as I always enable the automatching manually anyway).

And you have never asked for rematch in Outpost?

We need auto-auto-automatch, which reads your mind to determine whether you want to continue using auto-automatch.

[Powerman]

I don't know if it would be possible, but...

Could automatch also search through the rooms for open games and if one of them meets your criteria (within 2000 points, X sets, etc.), then it join you to that game?  Or would that be impossible due to the multitude of rooms...

[Drab Emordnilap]

I don't know if it would be possible, but...

Could automatch also search through the rooms for open games and if one of them meets your criteria (within 2000 points, X sets, etc.), then it join you to that game?  Or would that be impossible due to the multitude of rooms...

Also there's no direct way to know what sets someone owns.

[SCSN]

I don't know if it would be possible, but...

Could automatch also search through the rooms for open games and if one of them meets your criteria (within 2000 points, X sets, etc.), then it join you to that game?  Or would that be impossible due to the multitude of rooms...

Also there's no direct way to know what sets someone owns.

Assuming the minimum and maximum sets settings in the automatch aren't just there to ornament the UI, there actually is.

[Polk5440]

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Haven't played much. I would use it if I played more. 

[shraeye]

Also let me briefly plug the ragingduckd's automatch feature in the extension, which doesn't yet have critical mass but is already useful and will be fantastic once more people use it.

Stupid need for critical mass...

I'm actually puzzled as to why more people aren't using automatch. Can anyone who isn't using it help me understand why not and/or what would make the difference for them?

Two features I'm considering adding to address the critical mass problem:
1. Search for and auto-join compatible games in other lobbies when you submit an automatch request
2. (Optionally) send out an automatch request whenever you create a "5000+"-type table

Theoretically, I'd like to use this.  The primary problem, is that the internet just plain confuses me.  I don't know what extensions are, how to work/install them, how to turn them on/off, or why/when I'd even want to do that.

Other problems for me are that I'm not sure what auto-match options are for somebody who plays as infrequently as me (my pro-rating has been 0 for a real long time, and it's unlikely to ever get up to this constantly talked-about 5000+ level that everybody seems to want to play in)

[GeoLib]

Theoretically, I'd like to use this.  The primary problem, is that the internet just plain confuses me.  I don't know what extensions are, how to work/install them, how to turn them on/off, or why/when I'd even want to do that.

Other problems for me are that I'm not sure what auto-match options are for somebody who plays as infrequently as me (my pro-rating has been 0 for a real long time, and it's unlikely to ever get up to this constantly talked-about 5000+ level that everybody seems to want to play in)

If you're using chrome or firefox I would highly recommend getting the extension; It's made using goko so much more pleasant. Basically it changes the way the goko website interacts with you so that you've got a nice log on the side instead of their terribly formatted one in a pop-up window that blocks the board as well as some other options. Tell us what browser you're using and I'm sure we can walk you through installing it.

If you play bots you can fairly easily get your rating up to the level where people will play you. Just remember that BM-X or workshop-gardens is almost always the best strategy in base.


And... Now back to my question about buying the sets. I think I'm leaning towards buying, but I'm still concerned about giving goko my credit card information given their track record (passwords in plaintext leaps to mind). Does someone know whether "powered by ultimate pay" means that goko is never responsible for storing, transmitting, or reading my credit card info?

[ftl]

Yes, Goko doesn't do payment processing, they use a 3rd party service.

[shraeye]

If you play bots you can fairly easily get your rating up to the level where people will play you. Just remember that BM-X or workshop-gardens is almost always the best strategy in base.

I disagree, but here's a sarcastic thanks for the Dominion 101 lesson.

[GeoLib]

If you play bots you can fairly easily get your rating up to the level where people will play you. Just remember that BM-X or workshop-gardens is almost always the best strategy in base.

I disagree, but here's a sarcastic thanks for the Dominion 101 lesson.

Sorry if the advice sounded condescending. I only gave it because when I was trying to get my rating up by playing bots, I bungled a few games because I really wanted an engine to win, but it just wasn't better then BM-X. As for getting your rating up with bots, from personal experience it isn't that hard (though it takes a little bit and it's boring) and then once you're in the 4k range you can find people with cards who will play with you (though you have to hunt around).

[pst]

Other problems for me are that I'm not sure what auto-match options are for somebody who plays as infrequently as me (my pro-rating has been 0 for a real long time, and it's unlikely to ever get up to this constantly talked-about 5000+ level that everybody seems to want to play in)

You can have the automatch doing it's thing for you while you try to get a game in some other way as well, so it's not a hinder at least. As for the rating, I at least use automatch with Rating +/− more than my own rating, so I'll play anyone (who has any cards).

[GeoLib]

Ok now I've decided to buy in and I can't...
I go to the store, and go to buy gokoins, and select 450 for $45. I click the $45 and then the "Buy Now." The ultimate pay window pops up, I enter my credit card info. I hit continue.... And then all of my credit card info is cleared from the screen and nothing happens.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

[Dsell]

Ok now I've decided to buy in and I can't...
I go to the store, and go to buy gokoins, and select 450 for $45. I click the $45 and then the "Buy Now." The ultimate pay window pops up, I enter my credit card info. I hit continue.... And then all of my credit card info is cleared from the screen and nothing happens.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

I think something similar may have happened to me...did refreshing or reopening the page show the purchased gokoins?

[GeoLib]

Ok now I've decided to buy in and I can't...
I go to the store, and go to buy gokoins, and select 450 for $45. I click the $45 and then the "Buy Now." The ultimate pay window pops up, I enter my credit card info. I hit continue.... And then all of my credit card info is cleared from the screen and nothing happens.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

I think something similar may have happened to me...did refreshing or reopening the page show the purchased gokoins?

Nope. I don't think they were ever purchased as I never got to any kind of confirm screen or anything. The same thing happened about a week ago and nothing has showed up on my credit card, so I'm pretty sure the purchase isn't going through at all.

[PitzerMike]

On a side-note I think there's a summer sale until tomorrow or so where you get a free expansion if you make a purchase of 20$ or more.

[GeoLib]

On a side-note I think there's a summer sale until tomorrow or so where you get a free expansion if you make a purchase of 20$ or more.

Yeah. That's why I'm trying to do it now. I posted on getsatisfaction. Hopefully someone over there will figure it out.

[loppo]

in any case related to money transaction you should contact them directly at help@goko.com. This is usually the faster way to get help. If you mention the summersale, i'm sure they'll grant you the bonusses, even if you are late to the party.

[GeoLib]

in any case related to money transaction you should contact them directly at help@goko.com. This is usually the faster way to get help. If you mention the summersale, i'm sure they'll grant you the bonusses, even if you are late to the party.

Thanks. I'll send an email as well. I asked them about a week ago about merging accounts and they never responded, so I thought get satisfaction might be faster.