Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread  (Read 18952 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dudeabides

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 138
  • Shuffle iT Username: dudeabides
  • Respect: +136
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2013, 08:25:41 pm »
0

I'm becoming more and more convinced Butcher is one of the best cards in the game. 
I absolutely agree.  I think much of its strength lies in its incredible versatility.  At worst, it's a silver that requires an action to play it.  At best, it can turn a Curse into a Colony.
Logged
jsh357: the dude doesn't need to explain himself

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1689
  • Respect: +4302
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2013, 11:51:05 pm »
+1

Mic Qsenoch beats AdamH 3-0

More stuff to come later

1. http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376521188700.txt

2. http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376521802828.txt

3. http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376522530361.txt

Game 1: Cellar, Courtyard, Native Village, Market Square, Steward, Watchtower, Familiar, Bureaucrat, Rebuild, Trading Post and Colony

We both have 5/2. He opens Rebuild/Native Village and I open Trading Post/Courtyard. Because of the Colonies and the trashing on the board I am thinking of ignoring Rebuild here (at least at the start of the game). I get Familiars, while he just looks for defense from Watchtower. I am able to sneak in quite a few curses throughout the game which helps me a lot. He does get a few Golds from Market Square, but the Curses plus all the estates he buys makes his deck too economically weak to compete for Colonies effectively. I definitely think his Estate buys were a mistake. Too many steps up to Colony. I am not that impressed with my deck though. It's possible a Steward opening over Trading Post would have let me build an actual Watchtower engine instead of the more money focused deck I ended up with. Not at all sure how fast that deck would be.

Game 2: Herbalist, Vagrant, Chancellor, Masquerade, Smugglers, Talisman, Duke, Haggler, Rebuild, Adventurer

Haggler is fantastic Duke support, but Masquerade into Haggler can provide longevity for a Province buying deck as well. My opponent opens Talisman/Masquerade which signals Duke pretty strongly, I just take Masq/Silver. My idea here is to contest Duchies as much as possible, and buy some Dukes but not use Duke for scoring, instead use Rebuild to convert everything to Provinces. We split the Duchies 3/5 in his favor. I go to work on Provinces while he buys Dukes. There might be a turn where I should take another Duke instead of Gold or something. His potential for scoring peaks at the end, there is nothing to 3-pile, he would need a lucky Province hand to win. I pile-drive the Provinces to take a narrow victory.

Game 3: Fortune Teller, Oasis, Bridge, Marauder, Counting House, Graverobber, Stables, Wharf, Bank, Expand

My opponent pursues Wharf-BM with a Silver/Silver opening, I open Marauder/Silver and start acquiring Stables. I'm not actually sure about Marauder here, I only play it 3 times because I've soon moved on to Expanding instead, but it seems strange to ignore it completely. My opponent has a horrific triple terminal collision early in the game which wrecks his momentum, although I think in this case he should have played a Wharf and not Expand. I am drawing my deck pretty quickly and I sprinkle in a couple Wharves and a Bank right before I hit the green hard. My first Province comes a bit early, but I actually didn't even think of adding Wharf/Bank for big spending until a turn later. I like my strategy better here, but he did have some bad draws and mine were pretty good (especially the turn 6 Expand).

Thanks for the match AdamH!
Logged

PitrPicko

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Respect: +25
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2013, 04:17:44 am »
+1


AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3

(...)
Game 5 (ednever)

I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy).
(...)

I'm not really sure if FG is a mistake. Let's take a look on it like this. (1) It's a better copper. (2) If bought as opener w/ cultist (5/2) (or other power 2-card drawer) it decreases chance that cultist will miss a shuffle. But with Cultist/- you have chance to play cultist faster.
With Cultist/FG you have 5/6 chance to not miss a shuffle.
With Cultist/- you have only 5/11 for not missing shuffle. But in that 5/11 you will shuffle T4 already w/ cultist possibly 2.
What do you think is better? Cultist/FG IMHO lowers variance and also highers EV, but I'm not really sure.
(3) It increses $/card density for few first turns (4) It can be turned into gold later.
On the other hand it makes some crazy engine harder to set up.
Still it may be ok to buy it just for (2) even w/o other FGs in deck. What you think? Maybe without such a strong engine (KC/Scheme/Draw). I really don't know, I'm seeking opinions ;)
It can be general discusion about Cultist/- vs Cultist/Copper or Witch/- vs Witch/Copper. FG is just a better copper
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 05:04:05 am by PitrPicko »
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2812
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3840
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2013, 08:58:48 am »
+1

Mic Qsenoch 3  AdamH 0

I went into this series just hoping to win one game, my biggest disappointment is that I couldn't do that, but I suppose I deserve it because I wasn't playing well enough to beat someone like MQ.

Video Playlist:

GAME 1:  MQ - 64, AH - 39

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376521188700.txt
Video link:
Kingdom: Cellar, Courtyard, Native Village, Market Square, Steward, Watchtower, Familiar, Bureaucrat, Rebuild, Trading Post with Colony/Platinum

There's an engine here with some weak draw possibilities, and there's also Rebuild. Familiar should probably be incorporated into either of those strategies. I can't decide which to go for, so I end up half-heartedly going for Rebuild, but I never bother to get a Familiar (what is WRONG with me?!) MQ Plays the engine, gives me 9/10 curses, and wins convincingly. I deserved to get destroyed this game.


GAME 2: AH - 46, MQ - 49

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376521802828.txt
Video link:
Kingdom: Herbalist, Vagrant, Chancellor, Masquerade, Smugglers, Talisman, Duke, Haggler, Rebuild, Adventurer with Shelters

Province or Duchy/Duke? And then do you incorporate Rebuild? Well the answer is yes for Provinces and no for Duchy/Duke. He opens Masq/Silver and I open Talisman/Masquerade. We both pick up a Haggler and I get a Smugglers. He gets the first Province, but I was convinced that Duchy/Duke would be better from the start. I get the first Duchy and we race from there, but my deck is built for Duchy racing better and I win the split 5-3. He gets some Rebuilds and denies some Dukes to me. I think both of us had good shuffle luck this game, but he plays a water-tight game and ends up ahead of me by 3 points. I am happy with the way I played this game, and if we played this game 10 times with the same strategies, I think I would actually win a few of them.


GAME 3: AH - 14, MQ - 39

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376522530361.txt
Video link:
Kingdom: Fortune Teller, Oasis, Bridge, Marauder, Counting House, Graverobber, Stables, Wharf, Bank, Expand

So how do you want to enable Bank? Stables or Wharf? Apparently Stables. He goes Stables, I pick up a couple of Wharves. Both of us get an Expand to supplement. His deck comes together really nicely after he adds a couple of Wharves for the +Buy, but I don't understand why he was able to do it so quickly after opening Marauder. I also don't understand why my deck just didn't do anything. Maybe his strategy was better, but after playing this game I would have said I'd win 0 out of the 10 hypothetical games we played, but I feel like this strategy should be able to win 2 or 3 of them. What happened here?!




« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 09:28:57 am by AdamH »
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

jaybeez

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 335
  • Shuffle iT Username: jaybeez
  • Respect: +395
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2013, 11:19:25 am »
+1

Jaybeez - EgorK 3:1
EgorK - Jaybeez 44:67 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493472629.txt)
Jaybeez - EgorK 19:30 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493918032.txt)
Jaybeez - EgorK 39:9, resigned (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376494431373.txt)
EgorK - Jeybeez 36:38 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376495051421.txt)
Thought I'd add a few comments.

First comment: thanks to EgorK for the match!

Game 1.
When my opponent opened Armory/Vagrant, I thought I had a good chance of winning already (turned out he confused Armory with Ironworks, and Ironworks-Gardens would have been good here I think.  Oh well).  Meanwhile I open Black Market/Silver, and I go on to have some of the best Black Market luck of my life; from the BM deck I get Witch on T4, Mountebank on T6, and Marauder on T9.  I roll to victory with a money/Duke thing, pounding away with my Attacks.  My Haggler helps a bit but it's inconsequential really.  I even finish the game with 2 Spoils still in my deck.

Game 2.
Rebuild.  I get a 5/2 (Rebuild/Embargo), and my opponent gets 4/3 (Steward/Silver), and I feel that the Dominion gods have smiled upon me again.  But I have some atrocious shuffle luck, play somewhat badly, and make a terrible misclick on T11 (I meant to name Province on my second Rebuild play, I click Duchy by accident and of course hit my one Province).  My opponent cruises to a comfortably Rebuilt victory.  Would it have been better for me to open Rebuild/Estate to trash my Hovel?  I don't know.

Game 3.
There's Horn of Plenty, there's a village, there's terminal and non-terminal draw, there's sifting.  Yup, I smell HoP megaturn.  My opponent goes for a funky Warehouse/Library thing with Wandering Minstrels and Merchant Guilds.  It works better than I expect it to, but is way slower than my HoP engine powered by Stables, WM, Oracle, and Warehouse.  I get a chance to go off on T11 with only 6 Horns and decide to go for it, and also stupidly buy a Stables which probably should have just been a Duchy.  It doesn't matter though, my opponent resigns, as without alt-VP he would have needed the last two Provinces and all eight Duchies just to match the points from my 6 Provinces.

Game 4.
Without real draw this just seemed like a money game.  I wanted to open double-Swindler but got 5/2 and then had $5 on T3 so I went for Merchant Ships, planning to transition into two Swindlers with some Border Villages thrown in.  My opponent bought a few Death Carts (including opening with one) which I think was a pretty big mistake.  I don't think I played particularly well, I made a few mistakes myself, but I squeaked out a win anyway, partly due to better Swindler luck (I think).
Logged

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3526
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2013, 03:24:53 pm »
+1


AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3

(...)
Game 5 (ednever)

I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy).
(...)

I'm not really sure if FG is a mistake. Let's take a look on it like this. (1) It's a better copper. (2) If bought as opener w/ cultist (5/2) (or other power 2-card drawer) it decreases chance that cultist will miss a shuffle. But with Cultist/- you have chance to play cultist faster.
With Cultist/FG you have 5/6 chance to not miss a shuffle.
With Cultist/- you have only 5/11 for not missing shuffle. But in that 5/11 you will shuffle T4 already w/ cultist possibly 2.
What do you think is better? Cultist/FG IMHO lowers variance and also highers EV, but I'm not really sure.
(3) It increses $/card density for few first turns (4) It can be turned into gold later.
On the other hand it makes some crazy engine harder to set up.
Still it may be ok to buy it just for (2) even w/o other FGs in deck. What you think? Maybe without such a strong engine (KC/Scheme/Draw). I really don't know, I'm seeking opinions ;)
It can be general discusion about Cultist/- vs Cultist/Copper or Witch/- vs Witch/Copper. FG is just a better copper

Good points. I believe you're referring to this discussion?

The extra Copper/FG seems more appealing with Cultist than with Witch. Cultist chaining makes it particularly bad to separate a Cultist you play on T4 from one you buy on T4. Cultist is also the faster junker, so a small boost to money density will matter for longer.

I wish I could claim my in-game analysis was this careful. I was mostly just thinking how nice it would be to connect 2 FG and buy an early KC.
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

zporiri

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 198
  • Shuffle iT Username: zporiri
  • Go, and do likewise.
  • Respect: +130
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2013, 03:41:17 pm »
+1

3 zporiri - rtt 0

Game 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130815/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1376593385449.txt
Poor House, Moat, Great Hall, Masterpiece, Scheme, Taxman, Bandit Camp, Jester, Royal Seal, Saboteur

Relatively boring mirror. We both open taxman/silver and play a BM+Masterpiece game. He breaks PPR and I win on the following turn.

Game 2
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130815/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1376593846625.txt
Courtyard, Develop, Loan, Workshop, Noble Brigand, Quarry, Scout, Smithy, Horn of Plenty, Mountebank

I open loan/smithy, and hope to play mountebank often with a smaller deck and quick shuffles, at the risk of passing mountebank with my loan and picking it up with the smithy. some collisions, but i managed to avoid it for the most part, got early golds on and rode on to victory. he picked up a second mountebank and i ended up losing the curse split, but my quick start was enough.

Game 3
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130815/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1376594612751.txt
Apothecary, Oracle, Smugglers, Conspirator, Silk Road, Golem, Cache, Catacombs, Rogue, Harem

We both open silver/oracle. He was able to get his golem before me, so i took a silk road in case i needed to go down that road (silk road+harem) if i feel behind too quickly. i was only able to get one golem (had to go for province quickly), but i was lucky enough to get it pretty quickly after each shuffle. he broke ppr, and i won on the next turn. i got really lucky in this game.



« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 03:52:20 pm by zporiri »
Logged
Go, and do likewise.

Stealth Tomato

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 507
  • Dorkneel
  • Respect: +479
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2013, 04:17:35 pm »
+1

Moving my commentary to the correct place.


DRAW: Stealth Tomato 3 - 3 jog

For all the tournaments where I've seen really terrible boards, this match was wonderful. I think I use the term "goofy" about nine times in the following writeup, and the boards fit the description perfectly. They're difficult, nuanced, and sometimes a bit crazy. Some lead to a handful of decisions in the midgame that can dramatically affect the outcome. A couple had a heavy luck element, but there were plenty of opportunities to improve or hurt your odds of victory in nearly every one. I was thrilled to draw a high-level opponent and the result was nothing short of magical.

Game 1: Stealth Tomato 51 - 0 jog
I didn't outplay him here, although I disagree with the Steward/Steward opening on a Cultist board (where it's more important to add trash to your opponent than to remove it from yourself. I got the Cultists going earlier and that's really all there is to it. He certainly didn't deserve to lose by 51.

Game 2: jog 18 - 6 Stealth Tomato
Really, really goofy board. Jog gets going very slightly faster. I transition into a longer-game strategy hoping to have a chance, but he 3-piles before I can really get it going.

Game 3: Stealth Tomato 47 - 35 jog
I play what amounts to double-Taxman BM, he tries some goofy stuff with Remodel. My deck ends up substantially stronger; he transitions neatly into Feodum but it's not enough to overcome the Province split.

Game 4: jog 6 - 0 Stealth Tomato
This board was goofy. Really goofy. I blunder in taking my first KC instead of the last Fortress and a Watchtower, but overall I'm not disappointed in my play. Jog probably played slightly better, but I can't be sure with the amount of swinginess in the board here.

Game 5: Stealth Tomato 23 - 0 jog
I'm really proud of this one, although I probably could have lost it had one or two things gone differently. Tactician loop with Storeroom, Candlestick Maker, Knights, and Count. I open Silver/Storeroom in a play for quick Tacticians, he opens with CM/Ironworks. I get set up a bit faster, trash massively with Count, and it's just lead management from there on out. We split the CMs, I trash one of his Tacticians, and I make sure I have enough insurance to prevent his Knights killing all my plans.

Game 6: jog 42 - 5 Stealth Tomato
I probably could have done something about this, but I don't know what. It's a bit frustrating to lose and not know what you did wrong--should I have gone Familiar? Would BoM have helped? Or was I doomed by the time Familiar became a thing (I was clearly already behind)? Either way, I think this neatly bookends with the first game--Player 2 makes some minor mistakes, but luck is the big difference and the score ends up wildly lopsided.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 04:18:45 pm by Stealth Tomato »
Logged

Fabian

  • 2012 Swedish Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 666
  • Respect: +541
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2013, 05:05:23 pm »
+3

Fabian 3 - 3 DG

Game 1: Fabian 4 - 9 DG
A Village/Torturer/etc game in which I go first. Feels like one of those games I would probably win if I was better at this game, maybe. I try to go for a bigger Torturer/etc chain than DG, and by the time my deck comes together, piles have run out and I'm behind. Probably pretty awfully played by me.

Game 2: Fabian x - 3 DG
Ambassador mirror. Probably the least interesting game, as Ambassador mirrors often turn out. First advantage is good, etc.

Game 3: Fabian 32 - 30 DG
A Swindler/etc game in which I go a little harder on the Knights pile, and those Knights do some very good work (trashing multiple Golds, among other things).

Game 4: Fabian 56 - 46 DG
A Feodum game with Trading Post, Steward and Ironworks as support. After we have 4 Feodum each, I get lucky with a Trading Post/Feodum/Feodum/x/x hand, and my superior economy allows me to buy a comfortable amount of Provinces.

Game 5: Fabian 45 - 24 DG
I open Trader/Silver with the idea of going mostly BM and denying DG some Caravans, which I consider the only good target for his Universities. I miss some Death Cart considerations, allowing him to regain some economy fairly quickly, but the game doesn't feel that close.

Game 6: Fabian 29 - 38 DG
Weird board where I play pretty bad. I had some hope of getting to Provinces after the Duchy/Duke fight was over, but as DG said after the game, "it rarely turns out that way". I made a few pretty bad decisions in the late game, but would have lost anyway at that point.

Overall, I think 3-3 feels like a pretty fair result, and it was a lot of fun playing DG, who is one of the people whose game I respect the most on this forum (Stef, Obi Wan, jonts, etc). I was also pretty happy turning 0-2 into 3-2, almost making a crazy comeback against of the greats. Also also, I was kinda drunk celebrating Sweden's only gold in the Athletics World Championships, so I guess that's all the more reason to be happy with a draw heh. Thanks for the games, and good luck in the next rounds!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 05:51:50 pm by Fabian »
Logged

PitrPicko

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 51
  • Respect: +25
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2013, 05:09:00 pm »
0


AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3

(...)
Game 5 (ednever)

I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy).
(...)

I'm not really sure if FG is a mistake. Let's take a look on it like this. (1) It's a better copper. (2) If bought as opener w/ cultist (5/2) (or other power 2-card drawer) it decreases chance that cultist will miss a shuffle. But with Cultist/- you have chance to play cultist faster.
With Cultist/FG you have 5/6 chance to not miss a shuffle.
With Cultist/- you have only 5/11 for not missing shuffle. But in that 5/11 you will shuffle T4 already w/ cultist possibly 2.
What do you think is better? Cultist/FG IMHO lowers variance and also highers EV, but I'm not really sure.
(3) It increses $/card density for few first turns (4) It can be turned into gold later.
On the other hand it makes some crazy engine harder to set up.
Still it may be ok to buy it just for (2) even w/o other FGs in deck. What you think? Maybe without such a strong engine (KC/Scheme/Draw). I really don't know, I'm seeking opinions ;)
It can be general discusion about Cultist/- vs Cultist/Copper or Witch/- vs Witch/Copper. FG is just a better copper

Good points. I believe you're referring to this discussion?

The extra Copper/FG seems more appealing with Cultist than with Witch. Cultist chaining makes it particularly bad to separate a Cultist you play on T4 from one you buy on T4. Cultist is also the faster junker, so a small boost to money density will matter for longer.

I wish I could claim my in-game analysis was this careful. I was mostly just thinking how nice it would be to connect 2 FG and buy an early KC.

I didn't know about that discussion :) oops. Still it didn't come to any particular result. I'll post something there, but it would be lovely if some pro players from this tournament would join and discuss it. It really bothers me :D
Logged

zporiri

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 198
  • Shuffle iT Username: zporiri
  • Go, and do likewise.
  • Respect: +130
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2013, 07:23:06 pm »
0

AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3

Game 1 (AI)
Game 2 (ednever)
Game 3 (AI)
Game 4 (AI)
Game 5 (ednever)
Game 6 (ednever)

I thought if someone won the first 3 out of 4 games, they won the match, no?
Logged
Go, and do likewise.

Kirian

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7093
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9390
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2013, 07:23:49 pm »
0

AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3

Game 1 (AI)
Game 2 (ednever)
Game 3 (AI)
Game 4 (AI)
Game 5 (ednever)
Game 6 (ednever)

I thought if someone won the first 3 out of 4 games, they won the match, no?

This was actually taken care of in the results thread, yes.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4371
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2013, 08:42:27 pm »
0

WanderingWinder 3 - 1 17and3buys

Game 1: 17and3buys 62 - 53 WW
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376688608146.txt
A Big Money-ish Colony game. He goes vault, which I was a bit unsure about for colonies, but it worked pretty well (and I got very little off of the drawback, perhaps I should have been more aggressive). Pretty close throughout.

Quote
Game 2: WW 41 - 25 17and3buys
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376689042759.txt
The game I feel I most outplayed him, though hey, I got lucky too with many of my Noble Brigands. I feel that you really need to do go duchy/duke here, and you are so treasure-based that NB should be very good. I even had some chances at provinces due to this, but just plowed for the $5 victory cards and then the end of the game.


Quote
Game 3: WW 59 - 11 17and3buys
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376689695093.txt
It really wasn't this close, and there were several points I could have really jacked up the score, but there wasn't any reason/need to. On the other hand, while I think I played fairly well, I couldn't really point out places where I think he played poorly, so I think this may be down largely to some luck at key points and then snowballing.

Quote
Game 4: 17and3buys 61 - 66 WW
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376690281155.txt
So, I just head for 8 point fairgrounds. I get worried at some point, as there are only a few provinces left, he has gone for them and has a pretty big lead, and he has apprentice to potentially go for it. But he slows down for some duchies and such at this point, and I think this was a key point of error for him - I feel like he had reasonably good chances if he just went for running the provinces out. This really isn't the best board for the whole 8 pt fairground plan, as there's not a lot to chain (lacks villages) and you get terminal heavy. It isn't the worst, either, as there's not *great* cards for plowing through all the provinces, but well, there was apprentice at least.

Videos should be up shortly.

nopawnsintended

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Respect: +186
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2013, 09:07:13 pm »
+2

florrat - nopawnsintended: 3 - 1

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1376698429353.txt (florrat wins)

Masterpiece is key in this one.  Florrat hits 7 a couple of times, floods with Silver.  I have no idea what I was thinking with Native Village - Develop.  The Witches were nice, but that wasn't the diff in our strategy.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1376699165861.txt (florrat wins)

I hate Minion games because I always try to avoid Minion.  I try some Horse Tradersy thing where I'm hoping to get labbed every turn, and get some Heralds, and Cities, and Margraves to dig out.  Oh, that's a little complicated.  I suppose that's why I lost.  This one wasn't really close.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1376699789892.txt (nopawnsintended wins)

I went simple here with Militia into Hoard into Provinces in a Colony game.  Salvager to speed it up.  I win smoothly.  My only well-conceived strategy, but I suppose you could chalk it up to shuffle luck and my hitting hoard early.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1376700802634.txt (florrat wins)

For some reason, I think I can build my economy by (a) ignoring Masq on the first reshuffle, (b) getting only one Masq, (c) gaining Stables with Universities.  That's not a good idea, especially when you *know* that Goons is going to be key.  This was a case of priorities out of whack.  I was thinking that I could get the Goons later after I had a staple of Stables, but that was ill conceived because my opponent started Goonsing, and there was no getting Goons with the deck I had built after he started hitting me every turn with it.

Kudos to florrat who played much better than me. 
Logged

florrat

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: florrat
  • Respect: +748
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2013, 09:29:24 pm »
+2

Ninja'd by nopawnsintended, but I'll post my analysis anyway.

florrat - nopawnsintended: 3 - 1

florrat wins 43 - 30, Transmute, Native Village, Pearl Diver, Develop, Market Square, Masterpiece, Scheme, Ironworks, Mandarin, Witch
We both went Witch with Scheme support. Other than that I played BM with Masterpiece support, while nopawnsintended tried to recover a bit from the curses with Develop, and also bought some Native Villages along the way. This hurt his economy pretty bad, and I think it was better to just go BM. Maybe opening Witch / nothing would even be better for him than Witch / Native village.

florrat wins 39 - 25, Forager, Workshop, Feast, Herald, Horse Traders, Quarry, Spice Merchant, City, Margrave, Minion
I went Forager / Minion, while nopawnsintended tried to go more engine by buying some Margraves and Cities early. It took too long for the Cities to grow, and I was already 3 provinces ahead when the first pile was empty. Horse Traders was a nice card here, because we both played a lot of attacks.

nopawnsintended wins 50 - 38, Steward, Advisor, Militia, Salvager, Graverobber, Journeyman, Minion, Mystic, Venture, Hoard
nopawnsintended opened Militia / Silver going into Salvager / Hoard, I opened Militia / Steward but didn't have any good strategy after that. I think I made mistakes in the opening by discarding good cards to his Militia so that I could trash 2 cards with Steward. I was also a little unlucky that my Steward and Militia collided the first three times.
I think we both greened way too early with Hoard, because we almost never reached 11 for Colony.


florrat wins 47 - 0, University, Fortune Teller, Masquerade, Watchtower, Familiar, Advisor, Cutpurse, Stables, Goons, Peddler
I went University / Goons with nonterminal draw from Stables and Advisor (which was really nice here), although I got my Potion a little late. I think nopawnsintended tried the same, but he neglected his economy in the beginning, and he never reached $6.

Thanks for the games nopawnsintended, I especially liked the fact that no game was a mirror match which came down to shuffle luck!
Logged

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
  • Respect: +865
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2013, 01:38:41 pm »
+2

Eevee 3.5 - Archetype 1.5

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757257165.txt
Archetype opens 5-2 on a rebuild board and goes on to destroy me.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757862585.txt
Soothsayer is the key card here. I play more of a money based strategy, and win pretty comfortably. I think Archetype's mistake was buying a soothsayer too late.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376758564549.txt
An interesting one with young witch, menagerie as a bane and fool's gold. I fall badly behind but my engine kicks in in time and I'm able to steal a draw.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376759431995.txt
A board made for a horn of plenty megaturn. Archetype goes for HP+steward, I clear the provinces on turn 12.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376760606752.txt
I buy knights whenever I can, get really lucky and snowball. This must have been pretty frustrating for Archetype.

Good games, it was definitely fun to play "competitive" dominion again.

Posting this here as well, I guess.
Logged

Archetype

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
  • Suffers from Fancy Play Syndrom
  • Respect: +685
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2013, 01:49:33 pm »
+2

Eevee 3.5 - Archetype 1.5

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757257165.txt
Archetype opens 5-2 on a rebuild board and goes on to destroy me.
Not much to say here. Just bought Rebuilds, a Witch, and went on to win. That Rebuild/Estate start was a big boost.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757862585.txt
Soothsayer is the key card here. I play more of a money based strategy, and win pretty comfortably. I think Archetype's mistake was buying a soothsayer too late.
I was aiming for a stange Bandit Camp/Mandarin/Watchtower deck, but I really underestimated Soothsayer's power and I failed hardcore. What I really needed was some trashing, which wasn't there.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376758564549.txt
An interesting one with young witch, menagerie as a bane and fool's gold. I fall badly behind but my engine kicks in in time and I'm able to steal a draw.
This was my favorite game out of the lot. I go Fools Gold early and he goes YW early. We then buy into each others strategies and end in a draw. I probably should've bought 1 less Menagerie, but oh well.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376759431995.txt
A board made for a horn of plenty megaturn. Archetype goes for HP+steward, I clear the provinces on turn 12.
I didn't want to get too crazy after the BC/Watchtower/Mandarin failure, so I went for a basic HP stack with Steward. But man, HoP is so good here. Well played Eevee!

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376760606752.txt
I buy knights whenever I can, get really lucky and snowball. This must have been pretty frustrating for Archetype.
Yeah I was trying for Rabble BM with Trader to help keep away the Knights with Silvers. But I totally forgot about Shelters which made the Trader really weak. But like Eevee said,  the Knights got out of hand really quickly and I had to devolve into a basic Horse Traders BM, if you could even call it that. Frustrating game, but my fault for not picking up a few more Knights.

Fun stuff overall. Eevee is a good player and I hope he does well in the rest of the tournament!
Logged

awildnoobappeared

  • Coppersmith
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 48
  • Respect: +100
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2013, 07:19:48 pm »
+1

awildnoobappeared d. Robz888 3-1

This could easily have been 3-1 Robz's way but for some bad luck on his part. Obviously I'm happy to win against a highly-ranked player, but I have to admit a lot of things went my way.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777332162.txt
Candlestick Maker, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Squire, Great Hall, Loan, Woodcutter, Feast, Venture, Harem
Probably the crappiest board I've ever seen! We both go for Ventures but Robz buys a Loan first up while I don't bother. Looking back I think buying a Loan was a better idea than not (to clear out Coppers for Venture) but my luck holds out and I squeak a 1-point victory.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777906525.txt
Secret Chamber, Market Square, Steward, Urchin, Coppersmith, Rats, Treasure Map, Counting House, Merchant Guild, Outpost (colony game)
Again there's not much on offer. Counting House/Market Square is the only thing either of us see. To be honest I thought I had this on turn 9 when I drained the Market Squares but I make a major mistake on turn 12 where I play too many MS's and cause a reshuffle with a CH in hand. From there Robz is able to attack the Colony pile effectively enough to win.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376778763575.txt
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Village, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Mining Village, Contraband, Highway, Torturer, Harem
Robz goes for Scrying Pools, while I ignore them and focus on building a Torturer chain. I don't think SP is good here as there's no trashing on offer, and there's Torturer handing out curses.
My plan comes off and Robz loses the curse split 8-2, there's not much coming back from that.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376779521939.txt
Secret Chamber, Hermit, Masquerade, Feast, Ironmonger, Island, Monument, Apprentice, Haggler, Hunting Grounds
Another fairly unexciting board, we both open Ironmonger/Masquerade picking up a Haggler at first opportunity. Robz picks up Apprentices and I follow along.
His Feast to gain a Duchy would have won him the game on turn 13 if he had revealed a Copper with Ironmonger. (I bought a Hunting Grounds for the same reason, hoping to tie-break by trashing it into a Duchy)
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2632
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3341
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2013, 07:45:13 pm »
+1

I keep up my famously bad showings in Tournaments with a huge loss here. It was... demoralizing.

awildnoobappeared d. Robz888 3-1

This could easily have been 3-1 Robz's way but for some bad luck on his part. Obviously I'm happy to win against a highly-ranked player, but I have to admit a lot of things went my way.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777332162.txt
Candlestick Maker, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Squire, Great Hall, Loan, Woodcutter, Feast, Venture, Harem
Probably the crappiest board I've ever seen! We both go for Ventures but Robz buys a Loan first up while I don't bother. Looking back I think buying a Loan was a better idea than not (to clear out Coppers for Venture) but my luck holds out and I squeak a 1-point victory.

I was shocked to lose this. Truly shocked. Loan has to be the right call, right? It doesn't hurt my early economy, I get to $5 for Venture no problem. I mean, I know what went wrong--I play a Venture that triggers a nasty reshuffle, and he goes like Province-Province-Province or something while I flounder. Still. I was shocked.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777906525.txt
Secret Chamber, Market Square, Steward, Urchin, Coppersmith, Rats, Treasure Map, Counting House, Merchant Guild, Outpost (colony game)
Again there's not much on offer. Counting House/Market Square is the only thing either of us see. To be honest I thought I had this on turn 9 when I drained the Market Squares but I make a major mistake on turn 12 where I play too many MS's and cause a reshuffle with a CH in hand. From there Robz is able to attack the Colony pile effectively enough to win.

Another stupid little board. Weak Colonies lead to Counting House strategy. I think the only difference here is he went for gobs of Market Squares for Copper gaining, and I picked up a Merchant Guild before heading for Counting House. This game could have gone either way--I got reasonable Counting House luck.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376778763575.txt
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Village, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Mining Village, Contraband, Highway, Torturer, Harem
Robz goes for Scrying Pools, while I ignore them and focus on building a Torturer chain. I don't think SP is good here as there's no trashing on offer, and there's Torturer handing out curses.
My plan comes off and Robz loses the curse split 8-2, there's not much coming back from that.

Yeah, I was just outplayed here. I have an ohshiny problem with Scrying Pool. I was hoping he would be a little slower setting up the Torturer chain, but he wasn't. Horse Traders was working annoyingly well for him. He ALWAYS had it in hand, and my Pools were activating it like crazy. I actually think he misplayed it and left the door open by getting too much Treasure and even a Province. But I picked the wrong approach from the start.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376779521939.txt
Secret Chamber, Hermit, Masquerade, Feast, Ironmonger, Island, Monument, Apprentice, Haggler, Hunting Grounds
Another fairly unexciting board, we both open Ironmonger/Masquerade picking up a Haggler at first opportunity. Robz picks up Apprentices and I follow along.
His Feast to gain a Duchy would have won him the game on turn 13 if he had revealed a Copper with Ironmonger. (I bought a Hunting Grounds for the same reason, hoping to tie-break by trashing it into a Duchy)

We did similar things, he broke PPR, and I should have been able to snag that last Province easily. I maddeningly couldn't, and then couldn't again. Possibly I Apprenticed the wrong thing on my last turn? I Apprenticed Masq and drew like all Duchies. Maybe shoulda been Gold, but I didn't have SO much money in my deck. I guess should have been Gold. I was like shaking by that point, knowing my fate rested on sealing this game. So I guess I did screw up. I don't know.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Polk5440

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1708
  • Respect: +1787
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2013, 12:02:42 am »
0

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777906525.txt
Secret Chamber, Market Square, Steward, Urchin, Coppersmith, Rats, Treasure Map, Counting House, Merchant Guild, Outpost (colony game)
Again there's not much on offer. Counting House/Market Square is the only thing either of us see. To be honest I thought I had this on turn 9 when I drained the Market Squares but I make a major mistake on turn 12 where I play too many MS's and cause a reshuffle with a CH in hand. From there Robz is able to attack the Colony pile effectively enough to win.

Another stupid little board. Weak Colonies lead to Counting House strategy. I think the only difference here is he went for gobs of Market Squares for Copper gaining, and I picked up a Merchant Guild before heading for Counting House. This game could have gone either way--I got reasonable Counting House luck.

This was kind of interesting. I am surprised neither of you tried Steward. I think I would have tried Steward-Market Square to open and hope for some Gold early. I wouldn't have even thought to try a deck of market square-counting house alone, but it worked out for you.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4371
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2013, 08:28:41 am »
+2

I keep up my famously bad showings in Tournaments with a huge loss here. It was... demoralizing.

awildnoobappeared d. Robz888 3-1

This could easily have been 3-1 Robz's way but for some bad luck on his part. Obviously I'm happy to win against a highly-ranked player, but I have to admit a lot of things went my way.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777332162.txt
Candlestick Maker, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Squire, Great Hall, Loan, Woodcutter, Feast, Venture, Harem
Probably the crappiest board I've ever seen! We both go for Ventures but Robz buys a Loan first up while I don't bother. Looking back I think buying a Loan was a better idea than not (to clear out Coppers for Venture) but my luck holds out and I squeak a 1-point victory.

I was shocked to lose this. Truly shocked. Loan has to be the right call, right? It doesn't hurt my early economy, I get to $5 for Venture no problem. I mean, I know what went wrong--I play a Venture that triggers a nasty reshuffle, and he goes like Province-Province-Province or something while I flounder. Still. I was shocked.
I am shocked that you are shocked. Why are you shocked? Loan has to be the wrong call here, doesn't it? You are aiming for a treasure-based deck, and loan is generally bad there. I mean, I know you are thinking that you're going for ventures, fewer coppers will be good. Yeah, but... you are having one fewer silver, one more copper-equivalent, and it does indeed hurt your early economy a little bit. And going mass venture with money just isn't that great anyway (indeed, it helps the venture, but you're still not all that likely to get to the point where venture>gold). And of course, you will end up hitting non-coppers a reasonably high percentage of the time with loan, as coppers get to be a lower and lower portion of your treasures. So I don't think it's worth it. Of course, if you draw well (hit coppers your first 5 plays or something), it will look good. And if you draw badly (you draw a bit worse than average here), it will look bad.
Also, why didn't anybody go squire as silver-flooder here? And I think CSM - just one, maybe two, maybe off opportunistic buys if you're going woodcutter - helps BM a little more than a silver at some point, because that smoothing is nice. Hard to time right, though.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777906525.txt
Secret Chamber, Market Square, Steward, Urchin, Coppersmith, Rats, Treasure Map, Counting House, Merchant Guild, Outpost (colony game)
Again there's not much on offer. Counting House/Market Square is the only thing either of us see. To be honest I thought I had this on turn 9 when I drained the Market Squares but I make a major mistake on turn 12 where I play too many MS's and cause a reshuffle with a CH in hand. From there Robz is able to attack the Colony pile effectively enough to win.


Another stupid little board. Weak Colonies lead to Counting House strategy. I think the only difference here is he went for gobs of Market Squares for Copper gaining, and I picked up a Merchant Guild before heading for Counting House. This game could have gone either way--I got reasonable Counting House luck.
There really isn't much here, and CH is plausible, though I think I would have gone Steward, maybe with MS at the right moment. That might be worse, I really don't know - anything is a little awkward.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376778763575.txt
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Village, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Mining Village, Contraband, Highway, Torturer, Harem
Robz goes for Scrying Pools, while I ignore them and focus on building a Torturer chain. I don't think SP is good here as there's no trashing on offer, and there's Torturer handing out curses.
My plan comes off and Robz loses the curse split 8-2, there's not much coming back from that.

Yeah, I was just outplayed here. I have an ohshiny problem with Scrying Pool. I was hoping he would be a little slower setting up the Torturer chain, but he wasn't. Horse Traders was working annoyingly well for him. He ALWAYS had it in hand, and my Pools were activating it like crazy. I actually think he misplayed it and left the door open by getting too much Treasure and even a Province. But I picked the wrong approach from the start.
HT is not really good against torturer, is really good against SP. But the bigger point is, and you know this by now, SP doesn't seem that good here - no trashing, no great cantrips, and there's a good draw engine without the SP - generally these are going to be faster (note I said generally - of course there are edge cases...)

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376779521939.txt
Secret Chamber, Hermit, Masquerade, Feast, Ironmonger, Island, Monument, Apprentice, Haggler, Hunting Grounds
Another fairly unexciting board, we both open Ironmonger/Masquerade picking up a Haggler at first opportunity. Robz picks up Apprentices and I follow along.
His Feast to gain a Duchy would have won him the game on turn 13 if he had revealed a Copper with Ironmonger. (I bought a Hunting Grounds for the same reason, hoping to tie-break by trashing it into a Duchy)

We did similar things, he broke PPR, and I should have been able to snag that last Province easily. I maddeningly couldn't, and then couldn't again. Possibly I Apprenticed the wrong thing on my last turn? I Apprenticed Masq and drew like all Duchies. Maybe shoulda been Gold, but I didn't have SO much money in my deck. I guess should have been Gold. I was like shaking by that point, knowing my fate rested on sealing this game. So I guess I did screw up. I don't know.
I don't think you were wrong to trash masq over gold there - your deck has 2 gold, 5 copper, and a haggler there. So you would have needed to get to gold, haggler, and 3+ coppers if you trash the gold, or get quite good results off of ironmonger and have gold and lots of copper, or every single treasure in your deck - basically these are pretty unlikely, and playing the masquerade probably isn't going to be an option which is going to really help you there. I think you get too many feasts at some point, but in my final analysis, I think this was mostly pretty even play-wise, and goes largely to shuffle luck.

SCSN

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7137
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2013, 09:19:08 am »
0

Double-Steward into Market Square is pretty damn strong. Before long you've a deck of only Stewards, Market Squares, Golds and Platina.
Logged

Destierro

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +49
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2013, 04:12:32 pm »
+1

Destierro 3 Craisins 0

Game 1: 39-30 Destierro
http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130818/log.50a06f0fe4b0638b8d8e5da1.1376853957102.txt

Chapel, Pearl Diver, Forager, Scheme, Alchemist, Trader, Embassy, Festival, Mountebank, Hunting Grounds

I thought I was a goner when he opened 5/2 on a board with mountebank and chapel. I grabbed trader/ chapel, hoping to get some good trader luck, and that is exactly what happened. Even though he blocked my mountebank twice in the first three plays, he failed to pick up any money besides gold, and stalled hard in the greening phase. My 8 silvers helped tremendously, allowing my to get the last two requisite provinces to secure a win.

Game 2: 28-9 Destierro
http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130818/log.50a06f0fe4b0638b8d8e5da1.1376854953023.txt

Develop, Quarry, Bandit Camp, Butcher, City, Counterfeit, Margrave, Merchant Ship, Mint, Farmland

Wow, this board was crazy. I opened 5/2 and could not resist the blinding power of Counterfeit. It was amazing here, being able to turn spoils into mountains of cash after trashing every last copper. Quarry was also very important, allowing my to pick up 5 cost engine pieces for 1 each, and counterfeit and margrave supplied and enormous amount of +buy. Ignoring counterfeit on this board is suicide.

Game 3: 36-15 Destierro
http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130818/log.50a06f0fe4b0638b8d8e5da1.1376855792181.txt

Poor House, Haven, Scrying Pool, Thief, Baker, Duke, Inn, Pillage, Trading Post, Treasury

A baker board, which I am unaccustomed to. Also, there's duke, but I see little support for it. I open silver/trading post, pick up  2 bakers to smooth my money, and some golds. I green fairly quickly, but after I have two provinces, his deck looks less than threatening, and I pick up gold on 6 instead of using my baker tokens. After the shuffle, I cruise through the provinces, picking up 6 by turn 16 with 5 baker tokens to spare.

An interesting set of games, thanks for playing Craisins!
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2632
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3341
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2013, 05:04:22 pm »
0

I keep up my famously bad showings in Tournaments with a huge loss here. It was... demoralizing.

awildnoobappeared d. Robz888 3-1

This could easily have been 3-1 Robz's way but for some bad luck on his part. Obviously I'm happy to win against a highly-ranked player, but I have to admit a lot of things went my way.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777332162.txt
Candlestick Maker, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Squire, Great Hall, Loan, Woodcutter, Feast, Venture, Harem
Probably the crappiest board I've ever seen! We both go for Ventures but Robz buys a Loan first up while I don't bother. Looking back I think buying a Loan was a better idea than not (to clear out Coppers for Venture) but my luck holds out and I squeak a 1-point victory.

I was shocked to lose this. Truly shocked. Loan has to be the right call, right? It doesn't hurt my early economy, I get to $5 for Venture no problem. I mean, I know what went wrong--I play a Venture that triggers a nasty reshuffle, and he goes like Province-Province-Province or something while I flounder. Still. I was shocked.
I am shocked that you are shocked. Why are you shocked? Loan has to be the wrong call here, doesn't it? You are aiming for a treasure-based deck, and loan is generally bad there. I mean, I know you are thinking that you're going for ventures, fewer coppers will be good. Yeah, but... you are having one fewer silver, one more copper-equivalent, and it does indeed hurt your early economy a little bit. And going mass venture with money just isn't that great anyway (indeed, it helps the venture, but you're still not all that likely to get to the point where venture>gold). And of course, you will end up hitting non-coppers a reasonably high percentage of the time with loan, as coppers get to be a lower and lower portion of your treasures. So I don't think it's worth it. Of course, if you draw well (hit coppers your first 5 plays or something), it will look good. And if you draw badly (you draw a bit worse than average here), it will look bad.
Also, why didn't anybody go squire as silver-flooder here? And I think CSM - just one, maybe two, maybe off opportunistic buys if you're going woodcutter - helps BM a little more than a silver at some point, because that smoothing is nice. Hard to time right, though.

I'm open to that argument, since I did indeed lose... but I'm not aiming for a Treasure-based deck, just a Venture based deck. I want Venture to find Venture to find Venture, etc. Coppers get in the way of that. So does Silver, actually, which is why I don't want Squire. I open Woodcutter over Silver to negate the "Loan finds Silver on Turn 1 or 2" problem that you sometimes get with Loan. I know this approach is super, super weak, by the way... but this is just such a weak board that it seemed best.

You are saying, Silver flood it, Venture, and money? That might be better--I would believe you that that was better. That's not what my opponent did though, and I am surprised--even though you say I shouldn't be!--that No Loan into Venture beats Loan into Venture.

Okay, I went to look at the log to prove my point... and I'm wrong. :) I only trashed 3 Coppers with Loan, but I have Loan, so I really only trash at net 2 Coppers. He has an extra Gold and Silver instead, and the same number of Ventures. That has to be better. Sigh.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2632
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3341
    • View Profile
Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2013, 05:09:32 pm »
0

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376779521939.txt
Secret Chamber, Hermit, Masquerade, Feast, Ironmonger, Island, Monument, Apprentice, Haggler, Hunting Grounds
Another fairly unexciting board, we both open Ironmonger/Masquerade picking up a Haggler at first opportunity. Robz picks up Apprentices and I follow along.
His Feast to gain a Duchy would have won him the game on turn 13 if he had revealed a Copper with Ironmonger. (I bought a Hunting Grounds for the same reason, hoping to tie-break by trashing it into a Duchy)

We did similar things, he broke PPR, and I should have been able to snag that last Province easily. I maddeningly couldn't, and then couldn't again. Possibly I Apprenticed the wrong thing on my last turn? I Apprenticed Masq and drew like all Duchies. Maybe shoulda been Gold, but I didn't have SO much money in my deck. I guess should have been Gold. I was like shaking by that point, knowing my fate rested on sealing this game. So I guess I did screw up. I don't know.
I don't think you were wrong to trash masq over gold there - your deck has 2 gold, 5 copper, and a haggler there. So you would have needed to get to gold, haggler, and 3+ coppers if you trash the gold, or get quite good results off of ironmonger and have gold and lots of copper, or every single treasure in your deck - basically these are pretty unlikely, and playing the masquerade probably isn't going to be an option which is going to really help you there. I think you get too many feasts at some point, but in my final analysis, I think this was mostly pretty even play-wise, and goes largely to shuffle luck.
[/quote]

Turn 12 was just so, so bruising. I had Haggler + $5 in hand, and Ironmonger. I just needed Ironmonger to either: Draw a Treasure, find a Treasure, or find a Victory Card and then draw a Treasure. It drew a Victory card and found an Action. The Feast/Duchy play at that point was pure rage panic.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.131 seconds with 22 queries.