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Author Topic: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread  (Read 29364 times)

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kn1tt3r

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2013, 12:25:42 pm »
0

Psyduck defeats kn1tt3r 3:1

Game 1 37:34 -> 1:0
kn1tt3r plays Councilroom-BM, I try to establish an engine based on Fortress and Councilroom, hoping to pull off some tricks with Farmland. While I farmland two Estates into Fortresses, kn1tt3r builds up some economy and has a lead. I feel that I get very lucky with my Smugglers and the Farmlands and can squeeze out a close win.

Since Council Room games tend to be very fast, I didn't expect an engine to be any good. So well, in the end I probably made some endgame mistakes, but overall this goes down to 1st player advantage I guess?
Video:

I just really feel like Smugglers is key here. As second player I definitely would have picked one up. Especially if the other player goes Council Room, too -- then you can play Smugglers and still have a 5 card hand quite often without returning the externality.

Nice games!

Hm. Maybe. I don't know... the thing is, with a BM strategy you can play Smugglers only once in a while, so you have to get lucky regarding your opponents' buys. In an engine it's way better (and it was great for him) because you can play it frequently and possibly gain treasures while spending your own buys and gains on engine components.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2013, 03:33:38 pm »
0

REMINDER

If you do not have all the cards, and haven't already posted it, let me know ASAP, preferably by PM.

I have a first-round match where someone didn't report they had no cards, and that match gets to be all-base, which shouldn't have happened.
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yed

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2013, 05:00:33 pm »
+2

I have a first-round match where someone didn't report they had no cards, and that match gets to be all-base, which shouldn't have happened.
Isn't it possible to switch opponents? Most matches are not played yet. For example me and shark_bait both have all cards and our match is scheduled to Tuesday.
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2013, 05:42:54 pm »
0

Hm. Maybe. I don't know... the thing is, with a BM strategy you can play Smugglers only once in a while, so you have to get lucky regarding your opponents' buys. In an engine it's way better (and it was great for him) because you can play it frequently and possibly gain treasures while spending your own buys and gains on engine components.

Yes. I wasn't trying to suggest that it would have been obviously better to simply add a Smugglers to your Council Room-Big Money deck -- even though I would actually consider it. I was just suggesting that when formulating a strategy, I would definitely want to be building a deck with Smugglers in it -- which would push me to lean more toward the engine, like you suggest.

In fact, I think I probably would have played this game like psyduck -- CR, Fortress, Smugglers, timely Farmlands, and I do think it wins over CR-big money; say 70-30? I was going to try to simulate it really quick, but Geronimoo's simulator is crashing on me for some reason.  :'(
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AHoppy

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2013, 08:38:20 pm »
0

I have a first-round match where someone didn't report they had no cards, and that match gets to be all-base, which shouldn't have happened.
Isn't it possible to switch opponents? Most matches are not played yet. For example me and shark_bait both have all cards and our match is scheduled to Tuesday.
Too late, we already played.

AHoppy defeats Shiroiken 3-0

Game 1:  Shiroiken: 34 - AHoppy: 50
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130811/log.512add69e4b0c02658feaef2.1376265748809.txt

Game 2: AHoppy: 50 - Shiroiken: 40
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130811/log.512add69e4b0c02658feaef2.1376266354619.txt

Game 3: AHoppy: 40 - Shiroiken: 31
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130811/log.512add69e4b0c02658feaef2.1376267016297.txt

I do have the bonus cards that come from that little card in Dark Ages/Guilds/Base cards.  And nobles showed up in 2 games and hoard in the third.  They did make them slightly more interesting... The last game is the most interesting if you're interested in reading them.  What I learned from these games: If you're going BM smithy > nobles and library > nobles.  I know, I opened festival in the second game, which was pretty bad, but I wanted to wait and see if he opened militia, because library would counter it.  Now, rethinking I see that was dumb but it still worked out.  Anyways, good games Shiroiken, and good luck in the rest of the tournament!

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2013, 09:11:19 pm »
0

You know, saying "Round 1 Results *ONLY*" makes people want to post in it without results...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Bekse

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2013, 03:40:04 am »
0

Loppo 3-1 Bekse

Game 1 Loppo 0-1 Bekse
Game 2 Loppo 1-1 Bekse
Game 3 Loppo 2-1 Bekse
Game 4 Loppo 3-1 Bekse

Bekse is a new dutch player. He is most familar with base+Intrihue, so we played half the games this way, and the other half full. sets random. So if you spot him give him a helping hand. Another Dutch champion on his way up.

Thanks for the kind words, although they are a bit exaggerated ;-). Deserved win, you're much better than I am.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2013, 02:34:23 pm »
+1

GwinnR 4-2 HME

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376327682881.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376328359640.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376328923183.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376329548879.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376330008872.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376331249623.txt

Game 1 we both employed similar strategies, with a Ghost Ship and Plaza+Journeyman. It mostly came down to lining up Plazas with Journeymen. The tokens made for some interesting decisions for what to do with early money, but in the end GwinnR was able to get in a Market which gave him an edge, and I couldn't get lucky enough draws to make it out.
40-29 GwinnR

Game 2 was Mountebanks and Salvager. He opted for Highways, and I got a Catacombs which turned out to be mostly useless. Nothing really interesting here.
38-22 GwinnR

Game 3 we both opened Ambassador/Jack and went into Council Room + money. There was a bit of interesting Duchy dancing at the end, but I just got better draws and won.
44-33 HME

Game 4 we went for Council Room + Masterpiece, but I started greening much earlier for the Silk Roads. He built up a lot more but couldn't overcome the Silk Roads.
69-57 HME

Game 5 was just Jack, Candlestick Maker, Royal Seal, and money. Not much to see here, though I made a big error topdecking a Gold instead of buying a Duchy on turn 12, which put me in bad shape for the endgame.
33-24 GwinnR

Game 6 was an interesting one with Silk Road, Trade Route, Crossroads, Armory, and Golem. He started with more Armories, while I got a Library and a Junk Dealer (huge mistake). This, along with first turn, allowed him to win the Silk Road split 6-2. It remained kind of close, since I had the ability to buy Provinces, but with $4 Trade Routes and piles pretty low, I would have needed quite a bit more luck to actually overtake him.
44-40 GwinnR

Overall, GwinnR played a much more solid series than me and got a 4-2 win to show for it.
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gman314

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2013, 05:49:27 pm »
+2

Joseph2302 2-4 gman314

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376333297553.txt
Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376333979722.txt
Game 3: Forgot to Get Log, but gman314 won
Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376335112544.txt
Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376335750535.txt
Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376336340009.txt

Game 1: We both go for a Bishop-BM type of strategy, he gets the Bishop as an opener, but I get one later. We each also pick up a Scavenger (me as an opener). He focuses more on Bishop, while I go for more BM, and he edges me out by 3 points for the win.

Game 2: This board has Torturer and some good Villages (WM and WV), but with Witch, Torturer seems like a no-buy. Or does it? After picking up a Witch, I start getting some Torturers for the bigger draw, and to force him to discard during the build-up phase. He goes for more Witches, which he later Salvages for big turns. I also trash my Witches, and end up with the win.

Game 3: I won. I forget what happened though.
Edit: Now I remember! This game had Steward, Young Witch, Haven, Wharf and Workshop as the bane (which neither of us bought). We engaged in a YW war, while I trash down with Steward and he with Lookout. He goes for more Wharves than I do, since my deck has an extra terminal and is slightly thinner, and I think he's got it when, on a Wharf turn, I'm able to take the last Province and win.

Game 4: We both go for a sort of Butcher-BM approach here, but I open with a Hermit, which I don't think helped. Also, I made some other mistakes, and he played well, tying up the series 2 - 2.

Game 5: This was a really fun one! He opens Remake/Silver, but with Poor House on the board, Remake's not so hot. I open Butcher/Poorhouse and move into an Alchemist-based deck with some Mining Villages that plays a Storeroom to discard the Coppers and then plays several $3 - $4 (dependinf on if I have my Potion) Poorhouses, and gets big turns with 2 Buys and some Butchers. I fall behind, but on the last 2 turns am able to get 5 Provinces for the win.

Game 6: I need a tie or better in this one to win the series, and I'm confident going in, but towards the end of this one, I really thought I had messed it up. The board had Familiar, Soothsayer and Marauder, and I rationalize that I can Maraud my way to a Soothsayer, and build a treasure-based deck (with lots of Fool's Golds) that can outlast Familiars (Especially with Steward's trashing). With Curses and Ruins flying, Cities become powerful, and when he wins the curse split 8 - 2, I'm pretty sure I'm hooped. I really should have got a second Steward earlier, maybe it would have helped me actually trash a curse! But with all my Fool's Golds and a few real Gold my deck is able to outlast and then when my Cities clump on a turn I'm able to get a Province and take the last FG, finishing off the 3-pile that he had set up for the win.

Good series Joseph and good playing! Hope to see you around Goko from time to time and good luck in the rest of the tournament!
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 05:52:26 pm by gman314 »
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gman314

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2013, 05:56:20 pm »
0

My overall takeaways from my match with Joseph: Butcher is awesome! Steward is really good! Cursing is powerful. Do it unless you have a good reason not to. Remake isn't great on a Poor House board.
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Joseph2302

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2013, 06:32:02 pm »
+1

Remake isn't great on a Poor House board.

Game 1: Definitely got lucky drawing at the end, and won on turns, but was an interesting game.
Game 2: Was massively surprised that torturers worked so well, maybe should have taken a curse or 2 rather than discarding, but hey hindsight is a wonderful thing and good strategising.
Game 3: Probably should have gone for steward not lookout, it was the main difference in our strategies, and I lost.
Game 4: Having not played butcher much, it was interesting to see it work, and was a fun card to use.
Game 5: Definitely wouldn't have gone remake if I'd seen poor house on the board, a massive error on my part.
Game 6: Another fun game, and it appears that planning Marauder/Soothsayer worked well here. A close game, but running down the FG to 1 was definitely regrettable when he took the lead.

Thanks for the games and your patience when I was late, when we had to restart games to get turn order correct many times, and when Goko gave us exactly the same board twice (this was very strange!!). Good luck for the rest of the tournament.
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gman314

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2013, 06:56:10 pm »
0

On game 5, there is a very good chance that had I not had a 5/2, I would have also gone for Remake. That's one of the weirder differences between 5/2 and 4/3 splits.
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2013, 08:17:44 pm »
0

My games against Young Nick:

As we both didn't own any Expansions our match was just unbelievably boring in most games.

Game 1:
Draw-Engine Board
I went for the Councilroom-Village-Militia Engine while he went for a Lab Based Engine with only a single Councilroom and Militia
I think he had better draws on turn 3-7 which made the difference and he won.

Game 2 and 3:
Basic BM-X
where X was Smithy the first 2nd Game and Militia the 3rd.
Coinpflip Games without any mistakes. We both won one of those.

Game 4:
Chapel-Smithy-BM against Basic Smithy-BM i think here its not clear what is better but my chapelled deck won mainly, i think because he over-terminaled with 2 Smithies and a Mine.

Game 5:
Clear Gardens-Rush Board with Workshop
I really had enough of more mirror Matches and tried to fight it with a kind-of-weak Lab-Engine.
With a bit of luck i managed to get enough Provinces to win by a small amount, even though he ended the game.

Game 6:
Board featuring Chapel Gardens and Witch
This game i really misplayed but i wasn't really concentrated either.
I just saw Witch Gardens and some Gardens-Support in Market and Woodcutter
and went for a horrible mix of Rush and Slog. I lost by a high amount even though i brought my Gardens to 5VP (59Cards)
But i was really amazed by his nice Cellar-draws. He always hit exactly $8 seven times and never hit $7


But i really think this 3-3 Result in the End was the only fair outcome i could have imagined, as all decent players are able to figure out the best( big money) strategie on most of the Base-Set boards, and we both only misplayed one game each.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 08:21:05 pm by MarkowKette »
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2013, 10:22:40 pm »
+1

Beyond Awesome defeats Kirian 3-1:

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50612f220cf2d91d287a93b8.1376357038883.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376357869706.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376358705225.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376359922996.txt

Game 1:  Knights, as it turns out, don't work so well when Fool's Gold can buy you Platinum.  Taking the first Knight and letting your opponent grab Dame Anna to trash with in a FG match... was a bad move.

Game 2:  Marauder just doesn't do much against Menagerie.  While I do think BA got lucky a few times with Menagerie, on average his deck was just built really well for it.  I seriously considered going Mint-Embargo as an opening here, I wonder how it would have gone.

Game 3:  FG again.  An early Counterfeit was key, but this game is a reminder that Laboratory isn't fancy, but really only needs some +Buy to make a good engine.

Game 4:  As I said to BA after the game:  Somehow, despite the fact that they're in the same set, and the fact that the set has been out for years, I failed to notice the synergy between Apothecary and Scrying Pool.  The killer here, though, was when he was able to gain and then draw two Golds on the same turn using Graverobber-Market Square-Vagrant craziness.

Well played, BA!
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2013, 10:39:48 pm »
+1

Beyond Awesome defeats Kirian 3-1:

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50612f220cf2d91d287a93b8.1376357038883.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376357869706.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376358705225.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376359922996.txt

Game 1:  Knights, as it turns out, don't work so well when Fool's Gold can buy you Platinum.  Taking the first Knight and letting your opponent grab Dame Anna to trash with in a FG match... was a bad move.

Game 2:  Marauder just doesn't do much against Menagerie.  While I do think BA got lucky a few times with Menagerie, on average his deck was just built really well for it.  I seriously considered going Mint-Embargo as an opening here, I wonder how it would have gone.

Game 3:  FG again.  An early Counterfeit was key, but this game is a reminder that Laboratory isn't fancy, but really only needs some +Buy to make a good engine.

Game 4:  As I said to BA after the game:  Somehow, despite the fact that they're in the same set, and the fact that the set has been out for years, I failed to notice the synergy between Apothecary and Scrying Pool.  The killer here, though, was when he was able to gain and then draw two Golds on the same turn using Graverobber-Market Square-Vagrant craziness.

Well played, BA!

Thanks for posting this up Kirian!

Game 1: I got really lucky. My opponent went for a Knight on a FG board with Colonies. While normally, you could probably make a comeback, Dame Anna was the revealed card and the trashing from it was just too good. I was able to pretty much trash away all my junk and had a much thinner deck and was able to get Platinums and Colonies much more easily.

Game 2: My opponent opens Marauder. From the get go, I see Menagerie and think it is a good counter against it. So, I plan my strategy accordingly. I might have got some lucky draws, but I was actually wanting to gain the Ruins. Also, Oasis helped discard duplicate cards. I'm not sure I played this my best, but Marauder doesn't seem to work well against Menagerie. I do think against Cultist though that Cultist is just too fast for Menagerie.

Game 3: I messed up. There were FGs and also the option of Vineyards with Squires and lots and lots of $2's. I should have just loaded up on Squire from the beginning and gone for a Vineyard strategy as I imagine that Vineyards would have been worth a lot on this board. Sadly, I got distracted by the shininess of FG.

Game 4: I did gain two golds off a Graverobber play. I do think going for two Apothecaries before SP was a smart move on my part and cost my opponent the game since he went for SP first. But, looking back, I see I could have played this better because Vault was on this board. I didn't even see it, but I could have built a SP Vault deck and played my Necropolis and then discarded lots of actions with Vault to draw them back. I have no idea why that didn't occur to me in the game.
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GwinnR

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2013, 12:30:29 am »
+1

GwinnR 4-2 HME

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376327682881.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376328359640.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376328923183.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376329548879.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376330008872.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376331249623.txt

Game 1 we both employed similar strategies, with a Ghost Ship and Plaza+Journeyman. It mostly came down to lining up Plazas with Journeymen. The tokens made for some interesting decisions for what to do with early money, but in the end GwinnR was able to get in a Market which gave him an edge, and I couldn't get lucky enough draws to make it out.
40-29 GwinnR

Game 2 was Mountebanks and Salvager. He opted for Highways, and I got a Catacombs which turned out to be mostly useless. Nothing really interesting here.
38-22 GwinnR

Game 3 we both opened Ambassador/Jack and went into Council Room + money. There was a bit of interesting Duchy dancing at the end, but I just got better draws and won.
44-33 HME

Game 4 we went for Council Room + Masterpiece, but I started greening much earlier for the Silk Roads. He built up a lot more but couldn't overcome the Silk Roads.
69-57 HME

Game 5 was just Jack, Candlestick Maker, Royal Seal, and money. Not much to see here, though I made a big error topdecking a Gold instead of buying a Duchy on turn 12, which put me in bad shape for the endgame.
33-24 GwinnR

Game 6 was an interesting one with Silk Road, Trade Route, Crossroads, Armory, and Golem. He started with more Armories, while I got a Library and a Junk Dealer (huge mistake). This, along with first turn, allowed him to win the Silk Road split 6-2. It remained kind of close, since I had the ability to buy Provinces, but with $4 Trade Routes and piles pretty low, I would have needed quite a bit more luck to actually overtake him.
44-40 GwinnR

Overall, GwinnR played a much more solid series than me and got a 4-2 win to show for it.
I totally agree.

I recorded the games for Youtube, for those who speak german:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
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My german Youtube-Channel: http://www.youtube.com/gwinnrdominion

Geronimoo

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2013, 09:06:14 am »
+1

Geronimoo and StrongRhino tied the match. First game I go for Mountebank and Familiar while my opponent skips the Familiar and goes for Mountebank and Urchin (into Mercenary). I obviously win the Curse war and my opponent overloads on Mercenaries to clean his deck. This means there are almost 2 empty piles (Urchin and Curse) so I decide to go for a fast three pile ending with Duchies. It works out.

Game two is a Lighthouse/Minion mirror match where I get very lucky winning the Minions split 7-3. This is pretty much game over and I coast to victory.

Game three features my favorite combo of Herbalist/Phil Stone. I get a Mountebank turn 3, but maybe that should have been a Herbalist. Anyway I win the Herbalist split, but my opponent gets 5 Phil Stones. I'm always in the lead VP-wise, but then I get a dead turn while my opponent gets a double Duchy and Province turn and he eaks out the win.

Game four we have a Rebuild mirror match (with Shelters). My opponent however opens Rebuild/Estate while I have to settle for double Silver. He gets pretty much perfect draws gaining two more Rebuilds in the early game and I'm dead.

Game five is another boring grind of Embassy BM mirror. I open Silver/Silver which should be slightly better than my opponent's Feast/Silver, but he has more luck and wins the game.

Game six I open Remake/Embargo to my opponent's Potion/Silver clearly indicating he wants Familiar. He gets to it before I can Embargo them. I transition into a sort of Ghost Ship Big Money deck with Ironmongers and Strongrhino overloads on Ghost Ships early game. My Ironmonger sort of counters his Ghost Ships (Harem second card on top which triggers the Ironmonger). In the end game I threaten a three pile ending with a small lead and my opponent can't catch up anymore so ends the game with the loss.
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shark_bait

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2013, 10:52:50 pm »
+2

sharkbait (3) over yed (0)

Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Game 1: 

Key Cards - Militia, Journeyman

Just a BM style game.  All in all, a close game that came down to the last Province, could have went either way in the end.

Game 2

Key Cards - Monument, Masquerade, Villages

This one is really a Monument-BM game with Masquerade for light trashing and support in the form of Bandit Camp, Worker's Village and Shanty Town for the village.  No crazy engine here.

Game 3 -

Key Cards - Jack of All Trades, Farmland

This was mostly a Jack-BM game.  My 4/3 was pitted against a 5/2 with Mountebank.  I don't like the Secret Chamber pick up on $2, there are no villages and there are other actions I'd rather play.  It's a close game that goes back and forth with tons of VP gaining happening due to Farmland in play.  If yed had gotten Province/Farmland on his last turn he could have prevented my 1-point victory the next turn.

I'd describe these sets as being like Bach's Goldberg Variations.  The Aria is BM and the variations are the different ways to play BM.  To the non-music enthusiast or non-Dominion enthusiast, it might not seem to exciting, but when you really delve into them, you can see those minute differences that make each unique and interesting in its own way.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2013, 11:22:10 pm »
+3

Remember everyone, if you feel like you're having a losing streak, it happens to everyone:

A Drowned Kernel defeats Rabid 3-0

Game One
Game Two
Game Three

O.o
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ragingduckd

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2013, 01:36:27 am »
+1

AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3

Game 1 (AI)
Game 2 (ednever)
Game 3 (AI)
Game 4 (AI)
Game 5 (ednever)
Game 6 (ednever)

Games 1, 2, and 5 were runaways, where early decisions and early draws decided the game rather quickly, though we both hung on for quite a while when we were losing. Games 3, 4, and 6 were hard-fought battles that came down to the last turn and just a few VP.

Game 1 was a very Apothecary-friendly board, with Cellar, Herbalist, Stonemason, Upgrade, and Nobles. The first few turns were a dead mirror, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I completely forgot that $4+P could buy two Apothecaries via Stonemason. Luckily, my first-player-advantage ended up winning me the Apothecary split anyway, after which I don't think there was much ednever could have done to recover. He mentioned in chat that he had made some early mistakes that probably cost him the game, but I don't actually know what they were.

Game 2 was another engine board, a Colony game with Hamlet, Warehouse, Jack, Golem, Cartographer, and Festival. I bought a questionable second Jack and ednever had a big lead by T8 with an Altar and a Golem against my pile of Hamlets. I panicked and bought a Bank on T11 to pick up a couple of Colonies, fearing that he'd 3-pile me otherwise, but ednever calmly and correctly continued building up his engine and he ended up winning huge.

Game 3 featured Rebuild, Crossroads, Warehouse, Peddler, and six other cards that could be pretty safely ignored. Lots of shuffle luck here, and I ended up with a VP lead and three Rebuilds to ednever's one. In the end, ednever was far enough behind that needed to actually buy the last Province for the win, but we had accidentally played without the VP counter and I think he miscounted the score. He ended up rebuilding into the last Province and falling 1 VP short.

Game 4 was all about Governor, Hermit, and Horse Traders, at least the way we played it. Although the board also had Swindler, Monument, and Jester, the 12-turn game just wasn't long enough for any of them to pay off, in spite of the presence of Fairgrounds. I won the Governor split 6-4 and ednever responded by rushing Provinces, picking up five of them before my mega-turn was ready. Double-Madman and Fairgrounds saved me and I just managed to eke out a 2 VP win.

Game 5 was painful. We both picked up 5/2 on a board with King's Court, Cultist, Scheme, Fool's Gold, and several strong engine support cards. The board clearly called for Cultist into KC engine, but I opened up Cultist/FS while ednever opened Cultist/-. Shuffle luck resulted in my winning the Ruins split 4-6, but Scheme made that pretty irrelevant after I didn't connect my two FG's and ednever picked up a T6 King's Court. From there on it was a pretty much a slaughter.  I can't really complain, as I certainly deserved to be punished for playing a schizophrenic and high-variance FG-into-KC-engine strategy as the first player.

Game 6 was clearly a BM-something setup, but with Fortune Teller, Caravan, Jack, and Count, it wasn't immediately clear what the "something" was. My 5/2 split made my decision for me and I opened Count/- while ednever opened Caravan/Fortune Teller and picked up a Count on the second shuffle. Neither of us bothered with Jack. I took an early lead on Provinces but I never got around to buying Caravans, and ednever closed the VP gap. We both picked up a bunch of Duchies with Count and soon it was a matter of VP math. On T14, I took two Duchies instead of a Province to force ednever to pick up 2 of the 3 remaining Provinces. After he bought one of them I faced a similar decision and I bought an Estate to force him to get both of the 2 remaining Provinces to win. Tragically, he did so, while my pile of green kept me from getting to $8 again until T21, when I drew a beautiful $5 + Count lead only to watch ednever play exactly $8 for the last Province and an 11 VP win.

I missed GokoDom I, so this was my first-ever tournament matchup. It was a very good and enjoyable series, with ednever performing far above his supposed Level 40 Isotropish/6000 Goko rating. I'm glad I didn't have to play a Game 7!
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 03:54:29 pm by ragingduckd »
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ednever

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2013, 11:08:08 am »
+1

Really fun series.

My comments interspaced below.

AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3

Game 1 (AI)
Game 2 (ednever)
Game 3 (AI)
Game 4 (AI)
Game 5 (ednever)
Game 6 (ednever)

Games 1, 2, and 5 were runaways, where early decisions and early draws decided the game rather quickly, though we both hung on for quite a while when we were losing. Games 3, 4, and 6 were hard-fought battles that came down to the last turn and just a few VP.

Game 1 was a very Apothecary-friendly board, with Cellar, Herbalist, Stonemason, Upgrade, and Nobles. The first few turns were a dead mirror, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I completely forgot that $4+P could buy two Apothecaries via Stonemason. Luckily, my first-player-advantage ended up winning me the Apothecary split anyway, after which I don't think there was much ednever could have done to recover. He mentioned in chat that he had made some early mistakes that probably cost him the game, but I don't actually know what they were.

Mirrors. Decided by first player advantage. If I had been first player I may have lost anyway though. I picked up an Upgrade at one point that should have been 2 Cellars and a Stonemason. And I had some bad draws on top of that. Seriously thought about resigning just so I didn't go on tilt.

Game 2 was another engine board, a Colony game with Hamlet, Warehouse, Jack, Golem, Cartographer, and Festival. I bought a questionable second Jack and ednever had a big lead by T8 with an Altar and a Golem against my pile of Hamlets. I panicked and bought a Bank on T11 to pick up a couple of Colonies, fearing that he'd 3-pile me otherwise, but ednever calmly and correctly continued building up his engine and he ended up winning huge.

Felt great on this one as soon as Andrew picked up the second Jack. First Jack is great to convert Estates into Silvers, and give you some draw (nice with Warehouse and Hamlet and Festival), but you don't want that many Silvers here that it's worth getting two. Bank is questionable as well as you don't have the draw to get many silvers out. In fact Andrew played two banks as his only two treasures one turn. Ouch.


Game 3 featured Rebuild, Crossroads, Warehouse, Peddler, and six other cards that could be pretty safely ignored. Lots of shuffle luck here, and I ended up with a VP lead and three Rebuilds to ednever's one. In the end, ednever was far enough behind that needed to actually buy the last Province for the win, but we had accidentally played without the VP counter and I think he miscounted the score. He ended up rebuilding into the last Province and falling 1 VP short.

Wow. I messed this one up bad. I had first player advantage, but Andrew started 5/2. That's usually enough on a Rebuild board without a lot of other options. I was still holding it together when I messed up and named Estate instead of Province at one point. I trashed a Province for a Province and the game was Andrew's. I ended the game just to end it. There were 2 Estates and a Province left and I was down by 8 with 1st Player position. Nothing I could do.


Game 4 was all about Governor, Hermit, and Horse Traders, at least the way we played it. Although the board also had Swindler, Monument, and Jester, the 12-turn game just wasn't long enough for any of them to pay off, in spite of the presence of Fairgrounds. I won the Governor split 6-4 and ednever responded by rushing Provinces, picking up five of them before my mega-turn was ready. Double-Madman and Fairgrounds saved me and I just managed to eke out a 2 VP win.


Thought I had this one. I lost the Governor split, but had the right draws. I mega-turned for 3 Provinces. Then he go nothing. Then I pulled off another 2 Provinces. I figured I had it.
Even when Andrew was playing his last turn I thought the game was mine. He upgraded for 2 Provinces - on the second I took a Fairgrounds with my Governor. But he managed to Remodel enough stuff and play 2 Horsetraders that he came out just ahead. I was very impressed. Well played.



Game 5 was painful. We both picked up 5/2 on a board with King's Court, Cultist, Scheme, Fool's Gold, and several strong engine support cards. The board clearly called for Cultist into KC engine, but I opened up Cultist/FS while ednever opened Cultist/-. Shuffle luck resulted in my winning the Ruins split 4-6, but Scheme made that pretty irrelevant after I didn't connect my two FG's and ednever picked up a T6 King's Court. From there on it was a pretty much a slaughter.  I can't really complain, as I certainly deserved to be punished for playing a schizophrenic and high-variance FG-into-KC-engine strategy as the first player.

I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy). Here you need to (1) Hurt the other guy with Cultists, (2) Get an early KC, (3) Get a Scheme (4) Connect the Scheme with the KC, (5) Get more KG and Schemes and build an unstoppable engine; Catacombs was also great here for the draw to get your entire deck in hand every turn. The only wild card here was Possession. You could build a serious Possession engine that could play the card many times per turn (two possessions and some KC give you 6 plays of the other guy's deck). It also messes with the other guy's KC-Scheme machine. The issue is that by the time you set up an engine that can do that, you can drive 2 or more provinces a turn. It was my back-up against a Big-Money style play where I was too far behind when I got everything set up. Andrew went for the Potion which worried me, but I was able to end it before he could even buy his first possession.



Game 6 was clearly a BM-something setup, but with Fortune Teller, Caravan, Jack, and Count, it wasn't immediately clear what the "something" was. My 5/2 split made my decision for me and I opened Count/- while ednever opened Caravan/Fortune Teller and picked up a Count on the second shuffle. Neither of us bothered with Jack. I took an early lead on Provinces but I never got around to buying Caravans, and ednever closed the VP gap. We both picked up a bunch of Duchies with Count and soon it was a matter of VP math. On T14, I took two Duchies instead of a Province to force ednever to pick up 2 of the 3 remaining Provinces. After he bought one of them I faced a similar decision on T20, and I bought an Estate to force him to get both of the 2 remaining Provinces to win. Tragically, he did so, while my pile of green kept me from getting to $8 again until T21, when I drew a beautiful $5 + Count with an 8-VP lead only to watch ednever play exactly $8 for the last Province and an 11 VP win.

Best game of the bunch. Very close. I made another mistake on this one misclicking with the Count (Have I mentioned how much I dislike the unforgiving Goko Interface!?!? I didn't even mention the Cartographer I trashed with my Jack in game 2!) and picking up an Estate instead of +$3. That turn I had to settle on two Duchies instead of a Province. I was kicking myself for it the entire game. Thankfully it came together in the end. Just in time.


I missed GokoDom I, so this was my first-ever tournament matchup. It was a very good and enjoyable series, with ednever performing far above his supposed Level 40 Isotropish/6000 Goko rating. I'm glad I didn't have to play a Game 7!

[/quote]
Thanks. I enjoyed playing you a lot. I end up playing a ton of level 4000 people or so on Goko and it doesn't take many losses to stop you from getting to the high ranks. Another flaw of this website... I still play too sloppy when I play this game (hence the 3/6 games with serious mis-clicks in a tournament setting!), but I've done alright when I applied myself, getting to the Top 10 on both iso and goko for at least a little while. Glad I was able to challenge you here!

On a related note: Were the match-up's seeded? A ~6000 vs a ~6800 on the first game of the series was not what I was expecting!

Ed
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EgorK

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2013, 11:50:53 am »
0

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jsh357

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2013, 02:01:28 pm »
+5

Games against Obi Wan Bonogi
Game 1
0-1
Vineyard game.  I had hoped to run Bishop against it while contesting Vines, but the drawback is that I had to trash Actions to do this, which pretty much failed against his more direct strategy.  Chancellor was pretty important for cycling here.  I should have gone for more Minions and went for Provinces, I think.  Either way I basically got outplayed on this board.  OWB's deck was much more fluid and prepared to run Vines.

Game 2
1-1

This game got interrupted by a browser crash, but I did pretty much have it.  Of course, with KC HP Monument, anything was possible I suppose.  Once our decks got past the Sea Hag phase, it was a clash of HP stacks with chips flying everywhere.  I went for Monument before Hag, thinking HP could help me get going a little faster and KCs were important.  I still think I was right, but we all know Sea Hag is just a Monument that doesn't give money or points and instead curses the opponent.

Game 3
2-1

I'm becoming more and more convinced Butcher is one of the best cards in the game.  Here I went for Butchering Peddlers and was able to get a sizable point lead without too much issue.  My opening was perhaps not ideal; Silver/Jack has its advantages over CY/Jack for sure.  Once again, Chancellor helped me out a little.  That was a theme in this set of games.

Game 4
2-2

Here I opened 5/2, saw Chancellor/Stash and thought it would be resilient against Soothsayer and good enough to outpace Wharves.  Guess how that turned out. 

Game 5
2-3

I was pretty mad when I lost this one, not gonna lie, but OWB played it well and it was close.  Interesting Duchy/Duke game where I ran 2 Expands with a few HPs hoping to win the Duke split better than I did.  Ok, so that wasn't my initial plan.  I was going to run HP Conspirator and Embargo Dukes or something, but when I noticed OWB had 4 HPs and I hadn't managed to get one, I figured I had better go Dukes since he'd have good Province buying power and I wouldn't.  It got pretty close, but I left a 2 Great Hall stack open for OWB to pile out and that was it for me.  His early Crossroads was huge, giving him a draw advantage I couldn't compete with too well.  He also Embargoed Crossroads, making it risky for me to do the same.  Probably the most challenging and interesting game of the set.

Game 6
3-3

CM/University/Watchtower just had to be good on this board.  I aimed to pile out in a hurry, spending spare Buys with WT to trash Curses and accelerate the game.  OWB caught up pretty well on points, but his Jester hit one of my VPs late in the game, forcing the Curse pile down to where I could safely end the game.  I'm not sure about Jester on this board in general.  You want it for sure, but not forever.  OWB went for Council Room Draw where, which seems ill-advised in retrospect.  University is the only Village, and without WT topdecking you can't guarantee them in the same hand (which is iffy in the first place).  Well, anyway.  Fun game.

Overall, I was very surprised to tie with one of the best Dominion players.  He was a good sport through my inability to read rules.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 02:03:55 pm by jsh357 »
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dudeabides

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 1 Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2013, 08:21:59 pm »
+1

Dudeabides v. Shraeye

Game 1      Dudeabides 21   Shraeye 16
Kingdom: Pawn, Swindler, Cutpurse, Walled Village, Haggler, Harvest, Torturer, Treasury, Witch, Harem

With my 5/2 to his 3/4 opening, I felt pretty good about this one.  Shraeye opens Swindler/Silver.  Would a double Swindler opening have been better?  I debate whether Witch or Torturer is the better open, let Haggler tempt me a bit, and opt for Witch in the end, which I think was the right choice. I buy a Pawn with my $2, as I think it helps Witch catch the reshuffle if I draw the Witch on Turn 4.  In hindsight, this is wrong because of Swindler, and consequently, I think the Pawn is a mistake. Then, when his first Swindler hits an Estate, I feel really good about this game.  I win the Curse split 6/4, we both buy Harems with 6, Treasuries with 5, and Walled Villages with 4, until we start hitting 8, but I'm able to use Haggler to help me end it on piles: Harems, Walled Villages, and Curses.

Game 2      Dudeabides 79   Shraeye 51

Kingdom: Pearl Diver, University, Oasis, Taxman, Butcher, Cartographer, Count, Duke, Junk Dealer, Wharf

This is an interesting game with 2 very different strategies, both of which showcase 2 cards from Guilds: Butcher and Taxman.  Prior to the game, Shraeye mentioned that this was his first game with Taxman.  I hadn't had much experience with it.  I open Oasis/Potion, thinking that there are enough $5 cards to make it worthwhile to go University, and then I can later Butcher the $5 cards.  Shraeye opens Taxman/Silver.  His T4 Taxman prevents me from hitting $5 on my T5.  My T6 draw gives me a Uni for my first Wharf and a $1/P for nothing.  He also picks up a Wharf on T6.  I pick up some Junk Dealers to do some trashing.  To cut to the chase, he has 3 Provinces by the end of T11, 6 by T14, while I get my first Duchy in turn 15.  I transition into Counts for Duchies and Butchers to chop my Wharves/Junk Dealers/Counts/Cartographers into Dukes, and manage to pull ahead in the endgame.  Shraeye was so far ahead early that I feel there must have been something he could do to end the game sooner, before I was really able to get my deck ready for greening.  Maybe a Butcher to trash Provinces for Provinces?  Anyways, I think his initial strategy might have been better than mine.

Game 3      Dudeabides 46   Shraeye 19
Kingdom: University, Warehouse, Gardens, Herald, Mining Village, Monument, Taxman, Jester, Minion, Witch

Not a whole lot to say about this one.  Another Uni board with Witch (again), Minion, and Jester.  We both open Warehouse/Potion.  My first two Uni gains are both Witches, while he opts for Witch and then Jester.  I think this is the big difference in the game.  Then, I get 4 quick Minions so that I can cycle through my deck and quickly dish out curses.  I win the Curse split 7/3, while we split Minions 5/5.  The game ends on piles: Gardens, Curses, and Minions.  Both of us have over 50 cards in our decks after 23 turns on a board without +Buys.

All-in-all this was a fun match against Shraeye.  Thanks to him for the games.  After the last game, he mentioned that he wanted some input from the experts, so please critique our strategies.
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