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Author Topic: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?  (Read 1782 times)

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GeoLib

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Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« on: August 03, 2013, 04:50:00 pm »
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He opens militia/sage and I open militia/silver thinking this will be more likely to get me the early $5 for rebuild. It just seems like his militia hits all my $5 hands so I'm stuck with one rebuild until turn 11 and never buy a duchy. Was this sage working for him? I pick up a sage turn 5 and 6 and 9 instead of silver. How much of this was luck and where did I go wrong. Should I have opened sage? Thanks!

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130803/log.5145f20ce4b0de86766be2fd.1375561246488.txt
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DG

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 05:22:04 pm »
+1

I think you were partly beaten by first turn advantage and shuffle luck. I don't particularly like the sage opening here as it is too risky but your opponent got away with it (as if he'd opening militia/nothing). In the short term the sage will be only finding militia and silver so why not just buy a militia or silver? In the long term the sage will not be skipping estates but drawing duchies instead for little benefit.
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Robz888

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 06:16:01 pm »
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I think you were partly beaten by first turn advantage and shuffle luck. I don't particularly like the sage opening here as it is too risky but your opponent got away with it (as if he'd opening militia/nothing). In the short term the sage will be only finding militia and silver so why not just buy a militia or silver? In the long term the sage will not be skipping estates but drawing duchies instead for little benefit.

The Sage cycles you, which is nice... but it won't always yield cash and eventually just digs up your Duchies, which you don't want in hand, so yeah, I think Sage ends up being not very good for Rebuild. Tough to say whether better than Silver. Probably lots of Sages is worse than lots of Silver, but maybe one or two thrown in would be good. Do think shuffle luck doomed you here.
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GeoLib

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 09:04:56 pm »
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Damn. That's what it seemed like, but I figured I was just missing something. Oh well. Thanks for your insights.
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Powerman

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2013, 11:18:00 pm »
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Also Turn 8 --> Discard the Sage, and buy a Rebuild.
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GeoLib

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2013, 11:24:26 pm »
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Also Turn 8 --> Discard the Sage, and buy a Rebuild.

Good call. That was stupid
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2013, 01:21:17 am »
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One Sage for opening is good as it helps guarantee the Militia hits first. Also, it connects Rebuilds later on, but will hit Duchies in the late game. I think one Sage is fine to open with, especially going first. Although, it does hurt the prospects of hitting $5, but I guess that is negated by forcing the opponent to discard. And, Sage does cycle faster which is nice when playing Rebuild.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2013, 03:25:08 am »
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One Sage for opening is good as it helps guarantee the Militia hits first. Also, it connects Rebuilds later on, but will hit Duchies in the late game. I think one Sage is fine to open with, especially going first. Although, it does hurt the prospects of hitting $5, but I guess that is negated by forcing the opponent to discard. And, Sage does cycle faster which is nice when playing Rebuild.

It doesn't guarantee anything.  Your opening buys could both fall to turn 5.
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SCSN

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2013, 03:59:05 am »
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I don't like Sage and I'm not even sold on the Militia, as it can help your opponent if he has Rebuild-Estate collision. I don't really know how often you can expect to knock your opponent from 5+ to 4- (getting him from 6+ to 5 or 4 to 3 is of no use). My guess is that it's still often enough to make Militia decent, but I'm not sure.
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GeoLib

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2013, 05:08:53 pm »
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I don't like Sage and I'm not even sold on the Militia, as it can help your opponent if he has Rebuild-Estate collision. I don't really know how often you can expect to knock your opponent from 5+ to 4- (getting him from 6+ to 5 or 4 to 3 is of no use). My guess is that it's still often enough to make Militia decent, but I'm not sure.

So you would have opened silver/silver? Militia certainly knocked me down from five pretty frequently and since I didn't have any other terminals, it seems better than silver.
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SCSN

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2013, 06:52:30 pm »
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I don't like Sage and I'm not even sold on the Militia, as it can help your opponent if he has Rebuild-Estate collision. I don't really know how often you can expect to knock your opponent from 5+ to 4- (getting him from 6+ to 5 or 4 to 3 is of no use). My guess is that it's still often enough to make Militia decent, but I'm not sure.

So you would have opened silver/silver? Militia certainly knocked me down from five pretty frequently and since I didn't have any other terminals, it seems better than silver.

I would have opened Militia/Silver, I'm just not 100% sure it's better than Silver/Silver. And it's not necessarily better than Silver if you don't have other terminals, as the discarding might help your opponent, which it certainly does here some of the time, even though I think it still hurts more than it helps overall.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 06:54:18 pm by SheCantSayNo »
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ragingduckd

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Re: Why did I lose this Rebuild mirror?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 07:33:47 pm »
+1

I definitely prefer Militia/Silver. Opponent drawing Rebuild + only Estate while you have Militia will be rare. Opponent drawing $5-$6 that doesn't include two VP cards will be common.
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