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Author Topic: Fermenting and S. de Champlain  (Read 2387 times)

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ksasaki

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Fermenting and S. de Champlain
« on: July 31, 2013, 05:19:21 pm »
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So I have three cards in my hand, on my second action I use fermenting to draw 7 cards.  Should Champlain activate or not?  In the game I played (I forgot to save the game log, doh, but it was against Aolhelm today).  I think he should, but I am not sure.

Champlain's text: If you would draw a fifth card into your hand, first claim an achievement of that card's value or below, regardless of eligibility.

I guess the question is, is each "draw" a card from fermenting atomic (i.e. draw then into hand, draw then into hand), or do all seven cards get drawn at once, and handsize changes from 3 to 10.
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dondon151

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Re: Fermenting and S. de Champlain
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2013, 05:22:23 pm »
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This may be relevant:

About Sunshu Ao:  the ruling on him had to change because of ugliness that could occur from chaining, and to stay consistent with rulings on other cards.  See here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/916947/instead-karmas-and-if-you-do-dogmas

When performing the Reformation dogma effect or another similar effect, you are not allowed to choose to tuck the same card repeatedly.  You choose all your cards to be tucked first, then proceed to tuck each chosen card (or perform another effect 'instead' for that card) only once.

Unfortunately, I don't know if this answers your question.

EDIT: Numerous other posts on BGG seem to indicate that these actions are atomic.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 06:08:36 pm by dondon151 »
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dougz

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Re: Fermenting and S. de Champlain
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 06:13:57 pm »
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So I have three cards in my hand, on my second action I use fermenting to draw 7 cards.  Should Champlain activate or not?  In the game I played (I forgot to save the game log, doh, but it was against Aolhelm today).  I think he should, but I am not sure.

It should, and in my testing it does (see http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201307/31/game-20130731-150718-abc9dc1c.html).  Are you sure there was an achievement of the fifth card's age or lower available?  (Your game is http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201307/31/game-20130731-112903-67e514b2.html I think.)  It would not have said anything unless there was.
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ipofanes

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Re: Fermenting and S. de Champlain
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2013, 03:40:47 am »
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This behaviour would be in line with the engine checking, for instance, after each tuck/score for Monument, often in the middle of a resolving dogma like Industrialization, so I would definitely expect that de Champlain's karma triggers the very moment a fifth card is drawn.
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ksasaki

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Re: Fermenting and S. de Champlain
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2013, 10:34:19 am »
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Ah I think I understand, it was on turn 10, and the actual 5th card I drew was an age 2 card.  I guess the devils in the details...
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