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werothegreat

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Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« on: November 02, 2011, 01:50:39 am »
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So, running with the idea that Donald makes a small and a big expansion every year, and next year will be the last two, I decided to guess what the themes of them would be.  I decided the small one should have more Potions cards, because it feels like there's not really enough Potions cards introduced in Alchemy to justify the existence of the new resource, and the big one should have a theme of Industry, because I'd love to see an Industrial Revolution/Steampunk-y thing in the Dominion Universe.  Here goes - tell me if I've got some good ideas, or if I'm just plain stupid!

Bear in mind I haven't really filled out Industry - I figured I'd put these in front of you now rather than just making up a bunch of junk cards.  These have also NOT been playtested - I don't have enough blank cards (or friends who play Dominion) to make that really feasible.


MYTHOLOGY
$2 1P – Treasure – Constellation – $? -  Worth $1 for every Action card played during your turn, to a maximum of $5.
   -Don’t get too many, or you’ll get hands with no Actions, and therefore no money.
$2 1P – Action - Potionmaker - +1P, +1 Buy  |  While this is in play, if you buy a card with a Potion in its cost, you may put it on top of your deck.
$3 1P – Action – Fairy – Trash a card from your hand.  Gain a card of a different card type costing up to $2 more, or gain a card of any type costing up to $1, 1P more.
   -This and Potionmaker help with my niggling desire to get free Potion cards.
$3 1P – Action – Valkyrie - +1 Action – While this is in play, every time you would trash a card this turn you may either: discard the card instead, while still receiving the benefits trashing the card would have given you; or +1 Action.
   -Mine a Gold into a Gold, keep the first Gold!  Remodel a Gold into a Province, keep the Gold!  Apprentice a Province, keep the Province!  Moneylend a Copper, get +1 Action!
$4 – Action-Attack – Epic Poet – Each other player discards a Treasure, or reveals a hand with no Treasure.  Gain a copy of each Treasure discarded, and put these in your hand.
   -Not sure on the pricing – in some ways better, some ways worse than a Thief…
$4 1P – Action – Leprechaun – Reveal up to two treasures from your hand.  Gain a copy of each, and put these in your hand.
   -Doesn’t replace Mint – remember Mint lets you get rid of Coppers, and you may not want Treasures in your hand for some reason.
$4 1P – Action – Wizard – Discard a treasure.  If you do, gain a Potion in your hand.  You may trash a card. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.
$5 – Victory – Elysian Fields – Worth 1V for every three cards in the Trash pile.
   -I know the whole “gain something from the Trash” has been done before, but has this?
$5 1P – Action-Reaction – Unicorn – You may put your deck in your discard pile.  +3 Cards, +1 Buy.  |  When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, ignore the Attack.  If the Attack would have made you discard, draw the same number of cards you would have discarded; if the attack would have made you gain one or more cards, you may trash a card from your hand.  You may only reveal this once per attack.
   -Please make sure I’ve covered every eventuality with the wordy wording.
$5 1P – Action-Attack – Cerberus – Choose three: +2 Card; +1 Action; each other player with 4 or more cards discards a card.  The choices do not have to be different.
   -It’s flexible!
$6 Action – Demigod - +1 Buy.  Reveal Cards from your deck until you reveal 3 Action cards.  Choose one, put the other revealed cards back on your deck in any order, then play the chosen card twice.  |  This card can only be played from your hand – it cannot be played directly from the deck, such as through a card like Demigod.  If this card is revealed from the deck in such a manner, discard it, and proceed as if it were not revealed.
   -So if you Golem and find a Demigod, it’ll be discarded, and you keep searching for Actions.  However, Scout/Cartographer would let you put this back on your deck.
$6 1P – Treasure – Apple of Discord - $4 – When cleaning up with this in play, trash all other treasures in play, except for other Apples of Discord.
   -Play this with Coppers, not Platinums.  Or just have a Valkyrie in play.
$7 2P – Action-Attack - Dragon – Each other player discards down to three cards, then gains a curse in hand.  Gain a Gold and put it in your hand.  While this is in play, all cards cost 1P less this turn, but not less than 0P.
   -Is the cost good?


INDUSTRY
$2 – Action – Lightbulb – +1 Card.  Play all other lightbulbs in your hand.  Once there are no more lightbulbs in your hand, +1 Action for every two lightbulbs played, rounded down, but no less than 1 Action.
   -I just thought this was nifty and cute.
$3 – Action – Demolish – Trash up to three cards in your hand.  For each card, choose one: +$1; +1 Action.
   -Should this be more expensive?  Or should it be only two cards trashed?
$3 – Action – Railroad Workers - +2 Actions.  While this is in play, all cards cost $1 less, but no less than $2.
   -May or may not be good – just wanted a card called “Railroad Workers.”
$4 – Action – Steam Engine - +4 Actions
   -Used to power your 2-Action cards, get it?
$4 – Action-Victory – City Park – Trash a card from your hand.  |  2V.
$4 – Action – Bankruptcy – Reveal your hand.  If there are no Treasures, gain a Gold in hand.
   -Be careful: the more you play this, the less you’ll be able to.  Use in conjunction with a discarding card, like Cellar.  Throne Room-ing this would be silly.

2-Action FAQ – These cards can’t be Throne Room-ed.  You have to Throne Room a Throne Room, then these cards take up BOTH Throne Room slots.  So you can play Throne Room/Throne Room/Sawmill, but then you’re out of actions.  The doubly Throne Roomed Sawmill would yield +4 Buys and +$8.
$5 – Action – Locomotive - +2 Cards, +2 Actions.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
$5 – Action – Sawmill - +2 Buys, +$4.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
$5 – Action – Waterwheel - +2 Actions, +$3  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
$5 – Action-Attack – Smog – Reveal the top card of your deck.  You may either play it, put it in your hand, or discard it.  Each other player reveals their hand.  If they have action cards in their hand, you choose which action they must play first on their next turn. 
   FAQ: If a player is attacked by more than one Smog, they only have to go by the choice made by the most recent Smog.
$6 – Treasure – Stock Market - $0 – Every time you buy a card during your buy phase, +$3.
   -Make sure you have lots of Buys!  Then you can get endless Silvers!  Watchtower those to your deck!
$6 – Action – Zeppelin – Look at the top seven cards of your deck.  Put two in your hand, then put the rest back on your deck in any order.
   -Is this too expensive?  Should this have plus Actions?
$6 – Action – Factory – Gain one card costing $5 or less, one card costing $4 or less, and one card costing $3 or less.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
   -Super workshop!  I think the price and the 2 Action requirement balances this puppy out.
$7 – Action – Metropolis - +2 Cards, +3 Actions.  If one or more supply piles are empty, +2 Cards, +1 Action.  If two or more supply piles are empty, +$3 and +2 Buys.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
   -Super City!  See above.
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werothegreat

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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 02:11:55 am »
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P.S. I seriously only saw the Locomotion expansion down below after posting this.  Not trying to rip off anyone here!
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 09:35:57 am »
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P.S. I seriously only saw the Locomotion expansion down below after posting this.  Not trying to rip off anyone here!

No worries. It's not like no one has ever posted an idea for a card name or mechanic that someone else has already considered. The only card name Industry and Locomotion have in common is Steam Engine, and our implementations of the card is completely different. As well, the intent for Locomotion is a "resource management" or "fueling" mechanical theme. Was that your intention for Industry? If so, I don't think anyone is going to berate you for attempting such an obvious theme.

I'm also in the same boat as you when it comes to playtesting. It's very hard to find the time and people to test these cards with me. There needs to be an easier way.
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 10:55:37 am »
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I'm also in the same boat as you when it comes to playtesting. It's very hard to find the time and people to test these cards with me. There needs to be an easier way.

Like, an Isotropic clone that lets you program your own cards into it? Excellent idea! Now we just need to find someone to make it for us.
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werothegreat

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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 11:13:03 am »
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As well, the intent for Locomotion is a "resource management" or "fueling" mechanical theme. Was that your intention for Industry?

My intended theme was cards that require 2 Actions to play.
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 11:26:09 am »
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Just a couple of things. What do you do if you have some "Require 2 Actions" cards, but nothing that actually give you 2 Actions?

Quote
2-Action FAQ – These cards can’t be Throne Room-ed.  You have to Throne Room a Throne Room, then these cards take up BOTH Throne Room slots.  So you can play Throne Room/Throne Room/Sawmill, but then you’re out of actions.  The doubly Throne Roomed Sawmill would yield +4 Buys and +$8.

I'm a bit confused. How do they work with King's Court or Golem?


Quote
$3 – Action – Railroad Workers - +2 Actions.  While this is in play, all cards cost $1 less, but no less than $2.

So after playing this Coppers and Curses now cost $2?
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werothegreat

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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 01:03:48 pm »
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Just a couple of things. What do you do if you have some "Require 2 Actions" cards, but nothing that actually give you 2 Actions?

Quote
2-Action FAQ – These cards can’t be Throne Room-ed.  You have to Throne Room a Throne Room, then these cards take up BOTH Throne Room slots.  So you can play Throne Room/Throne Room/Sawmill, but then you’re out of actions.  The doubly Throne Roomed Sawmill would yield +4 Buys and +$8.

I'm a bit confused. How do they work with King's Court or Golem?


Quote
$3 – Action – Railroad Workers - +2 Actions.  While this is in play, all cards cost $1 less, but no less than $2.

So after playing this Coppers and Curses now cost $2?

Hrrrmmm.  I could either make it really complicated and think up ways for this to work with Golem and King's Court, or just ditch the whole special rules for it and say Golem, Throne Room and King's Court play them like any other card.  If I were to go complicated, it would be like this: King's Court/King's Court/Play a 2-Action thrice, then play a 1-Action thrice.  If Golem found a 2-Action first, you'd stop looking and play only that, and if it found a 2-Action second, it would be unable to play it - you'd have to move on.

As for Railword Workers, I could either fix that so Coppers and Curses remain $0, or I could leave it as is.  Could create some interesting interactions with Remake, Develop and Upgrade.
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 01:14:27 pm »
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As for Railword Workers, I could either fix that so Coppers and Curses remain $0, or I could leave it as is.  Could create some interesting interactions with Remake, Develop and Upgrade.

My recommendation is to leave it, then play test the heck out of it to see if it works. I had a similar variant where my phrase was "never less than 1", which bumped copper and curses to 1. It actually had several moments where it really mattered. The "bridge" factor can no longer rely on 0$ gains, based on just buys.

So you can't just spam buys and eat Estates for example, you have to pay at least 1$ for them (in your case 2$) and this has had impact in our testing, and overall we both agreed it was unique and interesting.

I think you might like the 2$ gimmick in your card if you test it, as it does indeed govern the card in an interesting way, interesting enough that you should test it anyway.
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 03:20:55 pm »
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Does anyone have any thoughts on the rest of the cards?  I did post quite a few...
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2011, 06:08:45 pm »
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$2 1P – Treasure – Constellation – $? -  Worth $1 for every Action card played during your turn, to a maximum of $5.

The trick here is that they vary so wildly in value, probably even more so than Diadem, which was variable enough in testing that it didn't work as a regular kingdom card.   On some boards, this is no better than a Copper.  On others, it'll give you $10 or more, which is just ridiculous.

Quote
$2 1P – Action - Potionmaker - +1P, +1 Buy  |  While this is in play, if you buy a card with a Potion in its cost, you may put it on top of your deck.

Probably this is overpriced.  Most $2P cards have a powerful level somewhere around $5 or so.  This is a little better than a Woodcutter at first and worse later.  Donald talked about +P as a vanilla bonus in the Secret History of the Alchemy Cards.  The problem is, what if this is the only Potion-cost card out?  The idea can work (and giving it a Potion cost is the right move, since that ensures that Potions are out in the first place), but the card needs to do something that will make picking these up worthwhile in the first place.  In other words, you have to consider that the only use for this card would be to pick up more copies of itself more easily.

Quote
$3 1P – Action – Fairy – Trash a card from your hand.  Gain a card of a different card type costing up to $2 more, or gain a card of any type costing up to $1, 1P more.

I like the idea of a Remodel that lets you jump from non-potion to potion costs.  I just question its power level.  Remodel is not a great $4 card.  This is a little better than Remodel, but probably only very little better.  Because to get it, you have to have already bought a Potion, and if you have a Potion, the need for using a Remodel-style card to get another Potion card is quite diminished.  Yet this card's $3P cost warrants a power level somewhere around $6.

It would be worth it on the right board, I guess, especially if you could dump an Estate to pick up an Alchemist.  But if you've already scraped together $3P, why didn't you just buy an Alchemist in the first place?  The other thing to consider is that the weakness of Potion-cost cards is how long it takes to get them in your deck.  Buy a Potion, reshuffle, buy the potion-cost card, reshuffle.  Double the usual time.  But inserting a Remodel step into that chain means THREE shuffles before you get your first target Potion-cost card in hand.  That's pretty brutal, even if you do get to reuse the Remodeller on future shuffles.

You also have to think about how the card would play in the absence of any other Potion-cost card.  It can still be used as a conventional Remodel, so that's good -- it won't be a completely dead pile.  But I think it needs to cost just a Potion, no coins, and then it might still be too slow for most boards.

I really like the idea, but I think it needs some thought.

Quote
$3 1P – Action – Valkyrie - +1 Action – While this is in play, every time you would trash a card this turn you may either: discard the card instead, while still receiving the benefits trashing the card would have given you; or +1 Action.
   -Mine a Gold into a Gold, keep the first Gold!  Remodel a Gold into a Province, keep the Gold!  Apprentice a Province, keep the Province!  Moneylend a Copper, get +1 Action!

I've seen this idea before and liked it but was nervous about the power level.  Giving it a potion cost makes me feel a lot better about it.  $3P might be just right, too.  However, again there is the problem that it's a dead card on many boards.  Not every board has trashing.

Maybe this functionality could be turned into a Reaction ability.  Then you can have it also be a Victory card, for example, or an Action that does something on its own.  Then it will still be useful in the absence of trashers.

Quote
$4 – Action-Attack – Epic Poet – Each other player discards a Treasure, or reveals a hand with no Treasure.  Gain a copy of each Treasure discarded, and put these in your hand.

This is extremely swingy.  It might do nothing, but when it hits, it hurts twice:  your opponent loses the use of a Gold, while you gain one.   Thief hits the top of the deck to keep the hurt in one place, and even then it's a somewhat swingy card.

Quote
$4 1P – Action – Leprechaun – Reveal up to two treasures from your hand.  Gain a copy of each, and put these in your hand.
   -Doesn’t replace Mint – remember Mint lets you get rid of Coppers, and you may not want Treasures in your hand for some reason.

I can't think of a reason why the gain-to-hand would ever be a drawback.  I'm sure there are reasons, but more the sort of reasons you'd ask in a Dominion puzzle question than something that you'd ever be in danger of encountering in a real game.  If a small hand-size matters -- e.g., for Library -- you can always just play the Library first.

But the card is probably fine.  $4P might be too expensive -- that's a LOT to pay for a card -- but I don't know why it wouldn't be okay at some price.

Quote
$4 1P – Action – Wizard – Discard a treasure.  If you do, gain a Potion in your hand.  You may trash a card. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

In many (most?) Potion games, you only need one Potion.  Two is pretty much tops.  So buying a Potion-costed card that gains you a Potion every time you play it is probably not something you want.  Of course, you can always trash the Potion you gain, but if you do that, the power level of the card actually worse than than Oasis.  Like Oasis, you're up $1 and down a card, but unlike Oasis, you had to discard a treasure instead of being able to discard a victory card or curse instead.

Basically I don't think this card will work at any cost.  The functionality requires a Potion in its cost, but the power level isn't strong enough to justify one.

Quote
$5 – Victory – Elysian Fields – Worth 1V for every three cards in the Trash pile.
   -I know the whole “gain something from the Trash” has been done before, but has this?

That's a really interesting idea.  You still need to guarantee that cards *can* be trashed in any kingdom using this, or it'll be a strictly useless card.  But maybe this can work as an Action-Victory where the action allows some trashing.

Quote
$5 1P – Action-Reaction – Unicorn – You may put your deck in your discard pile.  +3 Cards, +1 Buy.  |  When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, ignore the Attack.  If the Attack would have made you discard, draw the same number of cards you would have discarded; if the attack would have made you gain one or more cards, you may trash a card from your hand.  You may only reveal this once per attack.

The last line is problematic:  what if you have two such cards in your hand?  If so, you could reveal one in response to one attack, and the other in response to another.  But what holds the player accountable, preventing him from revealing the same one twice?

This is part of the reason that the Dominion rules allow a reaction card to be revealed any number of times in response to an event.  Rather than overriding the rules, it's better for a card to be written in such a way as to work within them.  Horse Traders is a great example of this.

I'm dubious on the reaction itself, too.  A reaction card probably shouldn't help the player TOO much, or attack cards become bad things to play, and if attacks are bad to play, they're bad to buy, and if attacks are bad to buy, there is less reason to buy reactions.  Lots of times, this reaction is probably fine, but sometimes it's crazy overpowered.   It stops a Minion chain dead, for example.  Each time your opponent plays a Minion, bam, you get FIVE more cards.  Giving your opponent a free Tactician turn is stupendous already, but that happens EVERY time your opponent plays a Minion.  He'd basically have to sacrifice his own turn by cutting it short just so you don't get to start your next turn with your entire deck in hand.

I also wonder if the rules can even be followed all the time.  When someone plays Jester, you MIGHT have gained a card from the attack, but unless the attack goes through, you won't know.  You can't even know when someone plays Saboteur.  Sure, that usually trashes a card, but can either of you be sure you aren't holding all your $3+ cost cards in your hand, which would then cause Saboteur to cycle through your deck without finding anything to trash?

If you made the reaction a simple Moat, the card looks well-worth playtesting at about $2P.

Quote
$5 1P – Action-Attack – Cerberus – Choose three: +2 Card; +1 Action; each other player with 4 or more cards discards a card.  The choices do not have to be different.
   -It’s flexible!

+6 Cards, +3 Actions is going to be unworkable at any cost.  You'd be passing up Colonies to buy this, even.  But the general principle of requiring a choice between helping yourself and hurting your opponents is interesting and evident in the gameplay of Pirate Ship and Minion.  Something like this might work:

Cerberus
$2P or $3P - Action-Attack
+1 Action.
Choose two:  +1 Card; each player with 4 or more cards discards a card.  (The choices don't have to be different.)

It's usually either a non-terminal Militia, a cantrip half-Militia, or a Laboratory.  Seems pretty good for a $2P or $3P card.  The price of Alchemist makes me think $3P is the best price, but it feels slightly weaker overall.  You'd have to see if pricing it at $2P would make multiples too easy to accumulate.

Offhand, I can't think of a "choose three" version that works unless you take off the +1 Action.  +3 Cards on a non-terminal is not only incredible but kind of boring once you've got enough to draw your whole deck every turn.

Quote
$6 Action – Demigod - +1 Buy.  Reveal Cards from your deck until you reveal 3 Action cards.  Choose one, put the other revealed cards back on your deck in any order, then play the chosen card twice.  |  This card can only be played from your hand – it cannot be played directly from the deck, such as through a card like Demigod.  If this card is revealed from the deck in such a manner, discard it, and proceed as if it were not revealed.
   -So if you Golem and find a Demigod, it’ll be discarded, and you keep searching for Actions.  However, Scout/Cartographer would let you put this back on your deck.

What's your reasoning for the special case rule here?  Special case rules just open up a can of worms when you hit weird snags, like with Golem.  Except that you specified, it wouldn't be obvious to me that Golem should skip and discard the card.  And indeed, why should it?  You're breaking the rules on the Golem card if you do.  You're breaking the Demigod rules if you don't.  There's nothing saying which rule should take precedence.  What you need is a way not to break ANY rules.  I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish with that rule, though, so I don't know what to suggest as an alternative way to achieve the same goal.

Anyway, the only other thing is that I think putting all the revealed cards in any order is a bad idea:  you might have 50 cards to put back, which will mean 20 minutes for the player to figure out how to arrange his next 10 turns optimally.  If you just discarded them all and played the chosen action card twice, you've still got a power issue.  Compare it with Golem, which lets you play two random actions.  That's almost always going to be vastly inferior to playing the best of 3 action cards twice.  Make it the best of 2 action cards, and you might be fine at $5P.

Quote
$6 1P – Treasure – Apple of Discord - $4 – When cleaning up with this in play, trash all other treasures in play, except for other Apples of Discord.

This is probably fine, but I'd probably rather see a $1 or $2 treasure with this power at a cheaper price.  $6P is pretty steep, and if you got any at all, you're probably not also going for Platinums anyway, so the trashing component is basically all upside.

Quote
$7 2P – Action-Attack - Dragon – Each other player discards down to three cards, then gains a curse in hand.  Gain a Gold and put it in your hand.  While this is in play, all cards cost 1P less this turn, but not less than 0P.
   -Is the cost good?

Tough to say.  That's priced so far above what any other card costs, there isn't any point of reference with which the power level could be compared.  It's also steep enough that by the time you can afford one, you probably should have already started buying Provinces (or even Colonies, in a Colony game).  So the fact that you drew $7+2P instead of $8 is probably not a good thing.

It's significant that the most expensive kingdom cards cost no more than $7 or $6P.  And even at that level, there are only 4 and 1 of each, respectively, out of the 160ish official kingdom cards.  It's just more important to have a solid middle than to put prizes on the edges.  Because even if you reined in the price of this card to the point where it's worth going for one, then the game would devolve into a race to get one of these, instead of a race to get the most VP cards.

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$2 – Action – Lightbulb – +1 Card.  Play all other lightbulbs in your hand.  Once there are no more lightbulbs in your hand, +1 Action for every two lightbulbs played, rounded down, but no less than 1 Action.
   -I just thought this was nifty and cute.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.  Too weak, I think, because the net benefit you reap is zero unless you can play at least four.  (Otherwise they're all cantrips.)  Actually, I think the problem is that +actions are the ultimate benefit you get from playing a chain of these -- but that's the effect you get out of playing a chain of Villages, so going to the effort of buying $2 cantrips that only become Villages under special circumstances seems like something you'd never want to bother with.  But I do really like the idea of a card that lets you play other copies and grants a benefit based on how many you manage to play.

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$3 – Action – Demolish – Trash up to three cards in your hand.  For each card, choose one: +$1; +1 Action.
   -Should this be more expensive?  Or should it be only two cards trashed?

In the early game, this is a monster.  Trash 3 Coppers for +$3?  Considering that +$3 alone should probably cost $5, this is outstanding by comparison.  Admittedly, later in the game you'll stop having cards to trash for those benefits.  But the ability to bootstrap up into power quickly probably makes it a losing strategy to open with ANY other card.

Reducing the trashing limit to 2 still compares very favorably with Steward, which only lets you trash two cards OR earn +$2, not both.  But just this:

Trash a card from your hand.  Choose one:  +1 action or +$1.

...is probably a deceptively solid $3 card.

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$3 – Action – Railroad Workers - +2 Actions.  While this is in play, all cards cost $1 less, but no less than $2.
   -May or may not be good – just wanted a card called “Railroad Workers.”

Harder to chain than Highway, but lots easier to chain than Bridge.  The lack of +Buy and cost-reduction limit makes me think $4 might be fine.

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$4 – Action – Steam Engine - +4 Actions
   -Used to power your 2-Action cards, get it?

This is very situational.  You usually don't need +4 Actions all at once, because if you have that many terminals, they'll be clashing a lot and hurting you.  On the other hand, if you had enough Steam Engines to mitigate that hazard, you'd probably be much better off with an equal number of Villages.  The Villages will get you up to +4 Actions if you really need them to, AND they provide important drawing power for getting those actions into your hand in the first place.

$3 is probably the right price for this card.

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$4 – Action-Victory – City Park – Trash a card from your hand.  |  2V.

Probably not worth playing very often, but $4 is a decent price for 2 VP already, so you're probably fine.

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$4 – Action – Bankruptcy – Reveal your hand.  If there are no Treasures, gain a Gold in hand.
   -Be careful: the more you play this, the less you’ll be able to.  Use in conjunction with a discarding card, like Cellar.  Throne Room-ing this would be silly.

A bit swingy, since two players with the same deck might see one player hit it three times and the other none.  Cellars and so forth do make this interesting, because you might have to decide if it's worth discarding more than $3 in return for gaining a Gold.  Black Market is another combo opportunity.  But it's pretty unusual for any given kingdom to have a reliable cycler like Cellar with which you can manipulate your hand sufficiently, so 95+% of the time the effectiveness of the card is down to luck.

Quote
2-Action FAQ – These cards can’t be Throne Room-ed.  You have to Throne Room a Throne Room, then these cards take up BOTH Throne Room slots.  So you can play Throne Room/Throne Room/Sawmill, but then you’re out of actions.  The doubly Throne Roomed Sawmill would yield +4 Buys and +$8.

The Throne Room rules here introduce more rules snags like I mentioned with Golem before.  In fact, Golem is also a problem here, since the card mandates that you play whatever action card you turn up.  Similarly, if you play Throne Room, you HAVE to play an action card from your hand if you have one.  If all you've got is one of these, you're forced to break one rule or the other.

The best mechanism I've seen for this is "-1 Action, if you do..." that was in another recent fan set thread here, but for the life of me I can't find it, which makes no sense.  I'm sure I'm just being blind, but I actually have to run now, so I'll finish my commentary on the remaining cards later.  If no one posts the link I'm looking for before I get back to this, I'll find it myself.

Anyway, good job.
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popsofctown

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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 08:43:13 pm »
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$2 1P – Treasure – Constellation – $?
It does have consistency issues.  Maybe +1$ for each potion in the cost of cards you have in play would be easier to balance, while still encouraging interesting interaction.  Yeah that breaks Alchemist, but Alchemist breaks Alchemist tbqh.

$2 1P – Action - Potionmaker - +1P, +1 Buy  |  While this is in play, if you buy a card with a Potion in its cost, you may put it on top of your deck.
As rinkworks mentioned, needs to work alone.  Maybe cost it at 3$ 1P and give it +1$ +1P +action +card, and the ability.  Kinda like treasury?
 
$3 1P – Action – Fairy – Trash a card from your hand.  Gain a card of a different card type costing up to $2 more, or gain a card of any type costing up to $1, 1P more.
To power it up a notch, I'd give it plus action, lower the remodel to upgrade, and let the 1$, 1P gain to hand.

$3 1P – Action – Valkyrie - +1 Action – While this is in play, every time you would trash a card this turn you may either: discard the card instead, while still receiving the benefits trashing the card would have given you; or +1 Action.
I'd like the wording better if you just copied Possession's clause.  Possession makes it rather clear benefits still happen.
I'd also make that mandatory to simplify things.
Then I'd remove the village option.
Then to make it work alone I'd add a salvager on buy effect.  Which you could make potion sensitive.  Because I know you like paying P without potions.

$4 – Action-Attack – Epic Poet – Each other player discards a Treasure, or reveals a hand with no Treasure.  Gain a copy of each Treasure discarded, and put these in your hand.
   -Not sure on the pricing – in some ways better, some ways worse than a Thief…

I disagree with rinkworks, I think this looks like a solid card as is.  Pirate Ship is a better comparison than Thief.  Pirate ship exploits a deck with lots of silver and gold and punishes you for it by removing them.  The thing is, though, Pirate Ship is still decent if it just hits copper because it powers up.  So it's not that weak even if you do all in your power to play around it (the setup might not have trashing).

This card can be more of a blowout, but making sure you always have copper in your hand can sting an Epic Poet player.  I only have to see one or two silver purchases to want to go pirate ship on a player, and he'll have little ability to turn back.  I have to be going Gardens or see a player trash all of his copper to want to buy this. 

$4 1P – Action – Leprechaun – Reveal up to two treasures from your hand.  Gain a copy of each, and put these in your hand.
   Doesn't feel like a potion card aesthetically.  Cloning potions sucks, and having a potion in your deck means you will often be doing an action strategy.

$4 1P – Action – Wizard – Discard a treasure.  If you do, gain a Potion in your hand.  You may trash a card. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.
You may discard a treasure.  2$ 1P.  Then it's a neat card IMO. (Maybe 3$ 1P).
I think putting a may on the discards has this card doing what you want it to do.  You can gain a clutch potion needed for an alchemy purchase but also have a card that's great at controlling potion clog.

$5 – Victory – Elysian Fields – Worth 1V for every three cards in the Trash pile.
To scale to multiplayer it'd have to be just your trash pile (are they seperate in dominion?).
And it needs to work alone as rinkworks said.

$5 1P – Action-Reaction – Unicorn – You may put your deck in your discard pile.  +3 Cards, +1 Buy.  |  When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, ignore the Attack.  If the Attack would have made you discard, draw the same number of cards you would have discarded; if the attack would have made you gain one or more cards, you may trash a card from your hand.  You may only reveal this once per attack.

I'd modify the reaction to:
Whenever you discard this card, you may reveal it.  If you do, +2 cards.
Whenever you would gain a card, you may reveal Unicorn.  If you'd gain a curse, gain an estate instead.  If you'd gain a copper, gain a silver instead.



$5 1P – Action-Attack – Cerberus – Choose three: +2 Card; +1 Action; each other player with 4 or more cards discards a card.  The choices do not have to be different.
Ratchet +2 Card down to +1, add a chancellor option?  Or a trash option.  And then you could amp the attack up to "with three or more cards, discards a card".  Just needs some tweaking for power.

$6 Action – Demigod - +1 Buy.  Reveal Cards from your deck until you reveal 3 Action cards.  Choose one, put the other revealed cards back on your deck in any order, then play the chosen card twice.  |  This card can only be played from your hand – it cannot be played directly from the deck, such as through a card like Demigod.  If this card is revealed from the deck in such a manner, discard it, and proceed as if it were not revealed.
   -So if you Golem and find a Demigod, it’ll be discarded, and you keep searching for Actions.  However, Scout/Cartographer would let you put this back on your deck.

Put potion in its cost and recost it, then make it only throne room stuff that doesn't have a potion in its cost.  Then let Golem play it as written, it'd be fine.

$7 2P – Action-Attack - Dragon – Each other player discards down to three cards, then gains a curse in hand.  Gain a Gold and put it in your hand.  While this is in play, all cards cost 1P less this turn, but not less than 0P.

I don't see why this isn't perfectly fine at 6P.  It'd be more entertaining at 5PP with a +buy though.


INDUSTRY
$2 – Action – Lightbulb – +1 Card.  Play all other lightbulbs in your hand.  Once there are no more lightbulbs in your hand, +1 Action for every two lightbulbs played, rounded down, but no less than 1 Action.

Hm.. "Choose one: +1 card, then reveal your hand and play a lightbulb from it, or +1 action for each lightbulb you have in play".

$3 – Action – Demolish – Trash up to three cards in your hand.  For each card, choose one: +$1; +1 Action.

Way too good.  I'd take it a different direction if you want to trash large numbers of cards.

$3 – Action – Railroad Workers - +2 Actions.  While this is in play, all cards cost $1 less, but no less than $2.
   Fun.  I'd reword it so it's clear that copper costs 2$.

$4 – Action – Steam Engine - +4 Actions
   -Used to power your 2-Action cards, get it?
I don't really like the double action mechanics so I'm not commenting on it.
$4 – Action-Victory – City Park – Trash a card from your hand.  |  2V.
Kinda weak actually.  VP decks are at their best when they are full of cards that reduce your odds of drawing a dead VP card. 

$4 – Action – Bankruptcy – Reveal your hand.  If there are no Treasures, gain a Gold in hand.
   -Be careful: the more you play this, the less you’ll be able to.  Use in conjunction with a discarding card, like Cellar. 
What rink said

2-Action FAQ – These cards can’t be Throne Room-ed.  You have to Throne Room a Throne Room, then these cards take up BOTH Throne Room slots.  So you can play Throne Room/Throne Room/Sawmill, but then you’re out of actions.  The doubly Throne Roomed Sawmill would yield +4 Buys and +$8.
$5 – Action – Locomotive - +2 Cards, +2 Actions.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
$5 – Action – Sawmill - +2 Buys, +$4.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
$5 – Action – Waterwheel - +2 Actions, +$3  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.


$5 – Action-Attack – Smog – Reveal the top card of your deck.  You may either play it, put it in your hand, or discard it.  Each other player reveals their hand.  If they have action cards in their hand, you choose which action they must play first on their next turn. 
   
Better attack: Each other player reveals his hand.  You may choose an action card from their hand.  If you do, that player sets aside all cards from his hand except that card, and returns those cards to his hand once he plays that card or discard it.

$6 – Treasure – Stock Market - $0 – Every time you buy a card during your buy phase, +$3.

It's kinda problematic that this does nothing at all without +buys. 

$6 – Action – Zeppelin – Look at the top seven cards of your deck.  Put two in your hand, then put the rest back on your deck in any order.

I like this at 5$, it reminds me of council room.


$6 – Action – Factory – Gain one card costing $5 or less, one card costing $4 or less, and one card costing $3 or less.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
   -Super workshop!  I think the price and the 2 Action requirement balances this puppy out.
$7 – Action – Metropolis - +2 Cards, +3 Actions.  If one or more supply piles are empty, +2 Cards, +1 Action.  If two or more supply piles are empty, +$3 and +2 Buys.  |  This requires 2 Actions to play.
   -Super City!  See above.

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AJD

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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 01:15:03 am »
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$3 1P – Action – Valkyrie - +1 Action – While this is in play, every time you would trash a card this turn you may either: discard the card instead, while still receiving the benefits trashing the card would have given you; or +1 Action.

You might want to rephrase this a bit to follow the phrasing from Possession: "set aside the trashed card, and put it in your discard pile at the end of the turn". That's a little more well-defined than "discard the card instead, while still receiving the benefits...".
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werothegreat

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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 03:54:44 am »
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Thanks for the input!  I'll definitely do some fiddling with prices, wording, and some abilities, but first: would Stock Market be better with a +Buy?  That would ensure you get to use its ability at least once.  The risk of that, though, is if you play more than one, then you get lots of buys and enormous amounts of money to go with it.  If you played three, you'd be able to pick up three free provinces.  Four would get you four colonies.  Maybe a Fool's Gold style wording of "If this is the first time you played a Stock Market this turn, +1 Buy."
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 07:25:50 pm »
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You mean Crossroads.  But yes, that sounds like a good idea.  It's similar to the reason crossroads uses that clause, actually.
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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 09:00:28 pm »
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Reworked a few cards:


$2 1P – Treasure – Constellation – $? -  Worth $1 for every Action card played during your turn, but no more than $5.
   Made it clear you can't get more than $5 out of this.

$1 1P – Action - Potionmaker - +1P, +1 Buy  If this is the only card with a Potion cost in the supply, +$2.  If there is only one other card with a Potion cost in the supply, +$1.  |  While this is in play, if you buy a card with a Potion in its cost, you may put it on top of your deck.
       Made it more useful when there are fewer Potion cards, and dropped the cost a little.

$2 1P – Action – Fairy – Trash a card from your hand.  Gain a card of a different card type costing up to $2 more, or gain a card of any type costing up to $1, 1P more.  |  When you buy this card, you may trash a Potion from play.  If you do, put it on top of your deck.
   Lowered the cost, and added a when-buy to give it a quicker turnover.

$3 1P – Action – Valkyrie - +1 Action – While this is in play, every time you would trash a card this turn you may either: set aside the card, and return it to your discard pile at the end of your turn; or +1 Action
   Put in the Possession wording - other than that, I like it how it is...  Not sure I want to go the Victory/Reaction route with this...

$4 – Action-Attack – Epic Poet – Each other player discards a Treasure, or reveals a hand with no Treasure.  Gain a copy of each Treasure discarded, and put these in your hand.
   Kept it the same.

$5 – Action – Leprechaun – Discard a card.  Reveal up to two treasures from your hand.  Gain a copy of each, and put these in your hand.  Discard another card.
OR --- Gain any Treasure card, put it in your hand.  Reveal your hand.  You must play the gained Treasure this turn.  At the start of Clean-Up this turn, trash all Treasures in play.
   As you can see, I changed the price, and also have a couple ideas as to how to rework it and not just make it a "better" Mint.  Let me know which you think is better.

$3 1P – Action – Wizard – You may discard a treasure.  If you do, gain a Potion in your hand.  You may trash a card. If you do, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$2.
      Added the "may" to the discard, and made it "better" than Oasis.

Thoughts?
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popsofctown

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Re: Fan Expansions - MYTHOLOGY and INDUSTRY
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 02:24:03 pm »
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Potionmaker's compensation is kludgy, and doesn't even make the card buyable on its own.  (It's a duchess that's good at buying other duchesses).

Fairy is still weak.

Valkyrie's first option needs an "instead".

Leprechaun's first version encourages big money very strongly, since you need to have two silvers in hand to make it better than explorer, if it's even better than explorer then.  The second version seems more promising design space.  The second version is hard to value but I feels like it's a 6$ card.  Mint lets you trash 3 or 4 coppers usually, then get a weak card in your deck.  This pretty quickly gets rid of all your coppers while you buy strong cards.

I like Wizard as is
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