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Author Topic: The thread where the current topic always gets derailed  (Read 32096 times)

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WanderingWinder

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2013, 07:35:19 pm »
0

Yeah, I was wrong about yogurt. but most ice cream does have vanilla in it I'm pretty sure.
But as much as vanilla ice cream does?
On the other hand, must Vanilla ice cream I have has pretty weak/little vanilla in it. I have had some that was quite vanilla-y (and delicious) though.

scott_pilgrim

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2013, 07:54:04 pm »
+17

I dislike it mainly because I find the figurative use of "vanilla" as "standard" or "generic" annoying. Vanilla is a distinct and unique flavor.
I think for most people (although I do think that vanilla ice cream is generally underrated), whenever they see vanilla and another ice cream flavor on the board, they'll take the other flavor.  Vanilla village is vanilla because whenever it's on the same board as another village flavor, you usually prefer the other flavor.  However, vanilla ice cream is sort of the standard flavor, so almost any time you would go somewhere that has ice cream, vanilla is an option; hence, vanilla ice cream is easier to get than the other flavors.  In the same way, sometimes you only have enough money to buy a vanilla village, and not the fancy $4 village you'd prefer; so vanilla village is easier to get than the other flavors.

Furthermore, as others have pointed out, most (but not all) ice cream has vanilla in it, regardless of whether it is the vanilla flavor.  Similarly, most (but not all) villages have "+1 card, +2 actions" (or equivalent) in them.  There are still some oddballs, like Native Village and Coconut, but then even that makes sense, because where do you get coconuts?  At the Native Village.
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AHoppy

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2013, 07:59:38 pm »
0

I would just like to clarify that I'm not bad mouthing vanilla.  I like vanilla ice cream.  scott_pilgrim makes more sense, I was mostly going for a joke, I apologize for stepping on anyone's cold-sweet-cream-covered toes

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 pm »
0

I have actually been disliking the term "vanilla" in Dominion too, but that's not because I like vanilla (I do, but that's not the reason), that's because I'm a Magic player and therefore I think that a vanilla card is a card with no rules text at all. So Confusion is basically the only vanilla card in my eyes, and it doesn't even exist.

EDIT: Actually the basic Victory cards and Curse are vanilla as well. Treasures are pushing it a little because being worth $X is no different from just giving +$X which isn't vanilla.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 08:09:00 pm by Awaclus »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2013, 08:09:51 pm »
0

I have actually been disliking the term "vanilla" in Dominion too, but that's not because I like vanilla (I do, but that's not the reason), that's because I'm a Magic player and therefore I think that a vanilla card is a card with no rules text at all. So Confusion is basically the only vanilla card in my eyes, and it doesn't even exist.

EDIT: Actually the basic Victory cards and Curse are vanilla as well. Treasures are pushing it a little because being worth $X is no different from just giving +$X which isn't vanilla.
Yeah, because vanilla creatures don't have power and toughness.

WanderingWinder

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2013, 08:13:19 pm »
+3

I dislike it mainly because I find the figurative use of "vanilla" as "standard" or "generic" annoying. Vanilla is a distinct and unique flavor.
I think for most people (although I do think that vanilla ice cream is generally underrated), whenever they see vanilla and another ice cream flavor on the board, they'll take the other flavor.  Vanilla village is vanilla because whenever it's on the same board as another village flavor, you usually prefer the other flavor.  However, vanilla ice cream is sort of the standard flavor, so almost any time you would go somewhere that has ice cream, vanilla is an option; hence, vanilla ice cream is easier to get than the other flavors.  In the same way, sometimes you only have enough money to buy a vanilla village, and not the fancy $4 village you'd prefer; so vanilla village is easier to get than the other flavors.

Furthermore, as others have pointed out, most (but not all) ice cream has vanilla in it, regardless of whether it is the vanilla flavor.  Similarly, most (but not all) villages have "+1 card, +2 actions" (or equivalent) in them.  There are still some oddballs, like Native Village and Coconut, but then even that makes sense, because where do you get coconuts?  At the Native Village.

I definitely think you're wrong. Vanilla ice cream is the most popular flavor, and there are usually other options. Beyond this, why is it exactly that you assume Vanilla refers to flavors of ice cream? I mean, you wouldn't say 'pepperoni' or even 'cheese' and expect people to know you're referring to something plain, even though those are the most ubiquitous pizza toppings. Or with some kind of frosting or pie or what have you.

eHalcyon

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2013, 08:35:23 pm »
0

I dislike it mainly because I find the figurative use of "vanilla" as "standard" or "generic" annoying. Vanilla is a distinct and unique flavor.
I think for most people (although I do think that vanilla ice cream is generally underrated), whenever they see vanilla and another ice cream flavor on the board, they'll take the other flavor.  Vanilla village is vanilla because whenever it's on the same board as another village flavor, you usually prefer the other flavor.  However, vanilla ice cream is sort of the standard flavor, so almost any time you would go somewhere that has ice cream, vanilla is an option; hence, vanilla ice cream is easier to get than the other flavors.  In the same way, sometimes you only have enough money to buy a vanilla village, and not the fancy $4 village you'd prefer; so vanilla village is easier to get than the other flavors.

Furthermore, as others have pointed out, most (but not all) ice cream has vanilla in it, regardless of whether it is the vanilla flavor.  Similarly, most (but not all) villages have "+1 card, +2 actions" (or equivalent) in them.  There are still some oddballs, like Native Village and Coconut, but then even that makes sense, because where do you get coconuts?  At the Native Village.

WW already touched on it, but I'm almost certain you are incorrect.  Vanilla is ubiquitous, but if anything that is an indicator of popularity.  It is available everywhere because people like it so much.  It is considered the de facto standard because it is so popular.

Here is a source.  That's the top 15 flavours according to the "International Ice Cream Association, 888 16th St., Washington, D.C."  Sounds like a reasonable authority on ice cream, at least. :P  Vanilla leads the pack by a very wide margin, French Vanilla comes in again at #7, and then there's even Vanilla Fudge Ripple at #9.

I'll take Vanilla over Chocolate (second most popular) every time.  Against Strawberry it's a closer race, though I'll go for Vanilla more often.  I've tried some weird but tasty flavours before (e.g. apple pie) and they were pretty great too, but Vanilla is the standard for a reason.

I like how this thread has gone.
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sudgy

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2013, 08:41:35 pm »
0

Everybody, so you see this now:

I do not like vanilla ice cream.  (I do like most other kinds though)

So, now, will anybody else call it the vanillage?  It's always annoying when people say village and you aren't sure if it's the normal vanillage or any village.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

scott_pilgrim

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2013, 08:41:54 pm »
0

I dislike it mainly because I find the figurative use of "vanilla" as "standard" or "generic" annoying. Vanilla is a distinct and unique flavor.
I think for most people (although I do think that vanilla ice cream is generally underrated), whenever they see vanilla and another ice cream flavor on the board, they'll take the other flavor.  Vanilla village is vanilla because whenever it's on the same board as another village flavor, you usually prefer the other flavor.  However, vanilla ice cream is sort of the standard flavor, so almost any time you would go somewhere that has ice cream, vanilla is an option; hence, vanilla ice cream is easier to get than the other flavors.  In the same way, sometimes you only have enough money to buy a vanilla village, and not the fancy $4 village you'd prefer; so vanilla village is easier to get than the other flavors.

Furthermore, as others have pointed out, most (but not all) ice cream has vanilla in it, regardless of whether it is the vanilla flavor.  Similarly, most (but not all) villages have "+1 card, +2 actions" (or equivalent) in them.  There are still some oddballs, like Native Village and Coconut, but then even that makes sense, because where do you get coconuts?  At the Native Village.

I definitely think you're wrong. Vanilla ice cream is the most popular flavor, and there are usually other options. Beyond this, why is it exactly that you assume Vanilla refers to flavors of ice cream? I mean, you wouldn't say 'pepperoni' or even 'cheese' and expect people to know you're referring to something plain, even though those are the most ubiquitous pizza toppings. Or with some kind of frosting or pie or what have you.
I'm not sure I've ever met someone whose favorite ice cream flavor is vanilla.  A couple of month ago I remember being somewhere where an ice-breaker question was favorite ice cream flavor, and out of 25-ish, I noticed that no one said vanilla.  Vanilla is popular to add to other things (like putting it on pie or cobbler or whatever), but is it really that popular by itself?  I don't think I've ever seen someone head straight for the vanilla ice cream at an ice cream shop.  My point was that it's one of the most universal flavors - pretty much anyone who likes ice cream likes vanilla ice cream - but most people prefer something else (in my experience).  It is entirely possible that my experience is completely off for some reason.

Now that I'm thinking about it some more, I see what you mean.  With only Vanilla and Chocolate ice cream available, I could see Vanilla being more popular.  Usually you don't have more than two Villages on the board, so I guess the comparison is not perfect.

As for why I assume it refers to ice cream.  Most of the time, when I hear the word "vanilla", it's being used in a Dominion context to refer to ice cream.  There are other uses for it, and I certainly hear those, but (again, this is just my experience) ice cream seems to be the most common context, by a substantial margin.  When people say pepperoni, I think of pizza, but not when they say cheese (probably because there are so many other common uses of cheese, not so much with pepperoni).  If it weren't for that, cheese would probably be even better than vanilla, because I think cheese pizza does all of things I described in my previous post better than vanilla ice cream does.  Also, I assumed that the use of the term vanilla in a Dominion context originated from ice cream, because that analogy seemed to fit best (although I'm sure a yogurt analogy works reasonably well too).

And of course you wouldn't expect people to think you were talking about something plain if you call it "pepperoni".  Pepperoni isn't plain.  Cheese is plain.  Pepperoni pizza is cheese pizza with pepperoni on it.  That's why cheese pizza costs less than pepperoni pizza.  You could call something cheese to mean plain, but there are so many other contexts in which cheese is used that the cheese pizza analogy wouldn't be obvious, so that's probably why it's not commonly used.  Pepperoni pizza is strictly better than cheese pizza, because you can just take the pepperoni off, just like how worker's village is strictly better than village, because you don't have to use the +buy.  In both cases, that's why the former costs more than the latter.  Dude, I think you've sold me on calling it the cheese village.

Edit: Well, eHalcyon's post kind of defeats this one.  I guess my personal experience is just way off?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 08:49:37 pm by scott_pilgrim »
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SirPeebles

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2013, 09:20:26 pm »
0

Maybe it's an age thing?  When I was a kid I would always go for new and exciting flavors, but at some point in my twenties I became honest with myself and admitted that vanilla is my favorite.  Of course, then I gave up dairy, and my selection shrunk to the point where only a specialty shop is likely to have any nondairy options aside from vanilla.  I am a big fan of the coffee biscotti flavor of hempmilk ice cream made by Tempt.
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SirPeebles

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2013, 09:25:21 pm »
+1

Also, pepperoni pizza is not strictly better than cheese pizza.  At least when you use pepperoni made from flesh, the flavor permeates all through the pizza slice.  I've known people who dislike the taste of pepperoni, and balk at the suggestion of picking it off.
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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2013, 09:25:33 pm »
+2

And of course you wouldn't expect people to think you were talking about something plain if you call it "pepperoni".  Pepperoni isn't plain.  Cheese is plain.  Pepperoni pizza is cheese pizza with pepperoni on it.  That's why cheese pizza costs less than pepperoni pizza.

Tell that to Little Caesars...
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TWoos

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2013, 09:28:29 pm »
+1

So, now, will anybody else call it the vanillage?  It's always annoying when people say village and you aren't sure if it's the normal vanillage or any village.

I don't recall exactly, but I thought I once saw a list of terms that playtesters used.  The two terms I think I remember were splitter and chainer.  A splitter was a card that gave +2 actions, and a chainer was a card that gave +1 action, +1 card.  So, spliter = village, chainer = cantrip. 

I mention this because I'd rather use the term splitter for any village type, and Village only to mean Village.

Anyone know where I might have read about this?
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2013, 09:30:58 pm »
+8

Maybe it's an age thing?  When I was a kid I would always go for new and exciting flavors, but at some point in my twenties I became honest with myself and admitted that vanilla is my favorite.  Of course, then I gave up dairy, and my selection shrunk to the point where only a specialty shop is likely to have any nondairy options aside from vanilla.  I am a big fan of the coffee biscotti flavor of hempmilk ice cream made by Tempt.

I suggest sorbets!

I'm still quite happy to try many different flavours when I can, but I think I would quickly get sick of them if I had them often.  I can't really imagine getting sick of vanilla (not for long, at least).



Regarding pizza, I imagine that just picking off pepperoni would not be acceptable for people who don't eat pepperoni for religious reasons or for major health reasons (I'm thinking allergies; not sure if there are people allergic to pork or beef but I wouldn't doubt it as there are some really weird allergies out there).

Also, you can have a pepperoni pizza without cheese.  This seems like a good place to put this:

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heron

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2013, 09:31:32 pm »
0

So, now, will anybody else call it the vanillage?  It's always annoying when people say village and you aren't sure if it's the normal vanillage or any village.

I don't recall exactly, but I thought I once saw a list of terms that playtesters used.  The two terms I think I remember were splitter and chainer.  A splitter was a card that gave +2 actions, and a chainer was a card that gave +1 action, +1 card.  So, spliter = village, chainer = cantrip. 

I mention this because I'd rather use the term splitter for any village type, and Village only to mean Village.

Anyone know where I might have read about this?
I think that would be in the thread for onigame's weighted randomizer.
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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2013, 09:32:04 pm »
+1

And of course you wouldn't expect people to think you were talking about something plain if you call it "pepperoni".  Pepperoni isn't plain.  Cheese is plain.  Pepperoni pizza is cheese pizza with pepperoni on it.  That's why cheese pizza costs less than pepperoni pizza.

Tell that to Little Caesars...

That's not pizza.
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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2013, 09:39:30 pm »
0

I don't recall exactly, but I thought I once saw a list of terms that playtesters used.  The two terms I think I remember were splitter and chainer.  A splitter was a card that gave +2 actions, and a chainer was a card that gave +1 action, +1 card.  So, spliter = village, chainer = cantrip. 
I think that would be in the thread for onigame's weighted randomizer.

Thank you, yes it was.   http://dominionsetgenerator.com/explanations.txt

And I got it somewhat wrong.

Chainer: Gives at least +1 Action
Cantrip: Gives at least +1 Card +1 Action
Splitter: Gives at least +2 Actions
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SirPeebles

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2013, 09:54:50 pm »
+8

(none pizza with left beef)

*rotates*  Excuse me sir, but I didn't order none pizza with right beef.
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PSGarak

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2013, 11:39:10 pm »
+3

Everybody, so you see this now:

I do not like vanilla ice cream.  (I do like most other kinds though)

So, now, will anybody else call it the vanillage?  It's always annoying when people say village and you aren't sure if it's the normal vanillage or any village.
I will agree to use the term "Vanillage," under the condition that the community agrees to call Native Village "Coconut Village." There are probably appropriate terms for the other villages (Fish ice cream is not appropriate >=[ ) but that's the only one I can come up with right now. Maybe Festival can be "Fried Village" and Plaza can be "Waffle Cone Village" but I think those are both stretches.

I would believe that Vanilla is far more popular by purchase than by preference. Several contributing factors:
 - It's the "safe" choice. You're buying a tub of ice cream to share with three people. One of them likes cookies & cream, another mint, and the third you don't even know what. You will end up buying vanilla.
 - It's the "default" choice. You want chocolate chip cookie dough, but they're out. What do you get instead, cookies & cream, or vanilla? Probably vanilla.
 - It's ubiquitous.
 - The other flavors split their votes. One person's favorite is chocolate ripple, another's is rum coconut, a third person prefers mint chip. But for all three of them, vanilla is their second or third choice. In a top-5 voting system, vanilla will get the most votes because it's everyone's #5 despite being no one's #1 because no one flavor has a significant number of #1's. (Something something, Condorcet voting systems.)

Vanilla also has wide application outside of ice cream. Many baked recipes, like pecan pie, will call for a shot of vanilla (substitutable by 1/3 the quantity of rum).
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sudgy

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2013, 12:26:43 am »
0

Maybe it's an age thing?  When I was a kid I would always go for new and exciting flavors, but at some point in my twenties I became honest with myself and admitted that vanilla is my favorite.  Of course, then I gave up dairy, and my selection shrunk to the point where only a specialty shop is likely to have any nondairy options aside from vanilla.  I am a big fan of the coffee biscotti flavor of hempmilk ice cream made by Tempt.

Well, I like simple flavors, not the weird ones.  My favorite is strawberry.  I just don't like Vanilla that much.  After strawberry (or other similar berries) and some of the well known chocolately ones (chocolate, chocolate chip cookie dough, mint chocolate chip, and maybe a few others I can't remember), I'm afraid to eat the ice cream in case I don't like it...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

blueblimp

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2013, 12:46:57 am »
+1

Vanilla ice cream is boring by itself, but goes well with other items, like cake, pie, etc., where a strong-flavoured ice cream would be too much. In that way, most of the villages have a vanilla-like quality to them.

On the actual topic of the thread, "Vanillage" is mostly unnecessary in written English, because of capitalization. At the beginning of the sentence, pluralization can help. (For example, "Village is a good card in engines" vs "villages are good cards in engines".)

There are still some oddballs, like Native Village and Coconut, but then even that makes sense, because where do you get coconuts?  At the Native Village.
Well, I'm convinced. :)
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ConMan

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2013, 01:52:50 am »
0

I like vanilla, but particularly "proper" vanilla which is sometimes known as French vanilla which actually uses vanilla beans rather than imitation vanilla flavouring, and I'm fine with referring to the Vanillage, and by extension, Coconut Village.
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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2013, 03:29:23 am »
0

On the actual topic of the thread, "Vanillage" is mostly unnecessary in written English, because of capitalization.

But what do they do in German?

(I'm surprised it took so long for capitalisation to come up, as that's how we normally handle it.)
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pst

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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2013, 07:20:59 am »
+2

... whenever they see vanilla and another ice cream flavor on the board, they'll take the other flavor.

I say as Donald Duck:
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Re: The Vanillage.
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2013, 10:16:26 am »
0

This is the best thread I've ever seen.
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