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[Eevee]

For minions, there is golem, market, vineyards and doctor for trashing. Storeroom is awesome with fool's gold though, and venture isn't half bad either after FG runs out. Which is better here?

I won't spoil what happened yet, but I encourage everyone to analyze the board, I think it's a good exercice!

[Mic Qsenoch]

I favor the engine, just because Vineyard can force the FG player to need 8 Provinces (though 3-pile is also possible if the engine player isn't careful). I don't have a good grasp of how much Minion slows down FG, it has to hurt it, but you can't contest the FG very well. Any cheap cantrip would make this an easy Vineyards board. The tough thing here is trying to get $5 early and simultaneously trash with Doctor.

I peeked at the log, and unfortunately we don't get to learn anything about the engine. And that Doctor overpay was pretty darn lucky!

[Powerman]

So, the real question is can the engine player get to >6Pt vineyards reasonably quickly.  So basically 20+ Actions.

Well, that would probably be 6-8 Markets, 6-8 Minions, 2-4 Golems, 1 Doctor.  That is a LOT of expensive parts.  There is nothing on the board 2-4 for the engine player to buy.  I mean 1 store room or 1 moat, maybe, but in general, nothing.  So, I think Vineyards will not work.

Now what about Minion --> Province.  Well, I don't think uncontested Minion with only doctor as support will beat uncontested Minion with Store room as support.  But maybe Minion-doctor, value FG > Silver could.

Probably just FG though.

[Mic Qsenoch]

So, the real question is can the engine player get to >6Pt vineyards reasonably quickly.  So basically 20+ Actions.

Well, that would probably be 6-8 Markets, 6-8 Minions, 2-4 Golems, 1 Doctor.  That is a LOT of expensive parts.  There is nothing on the board 2-4 for the engine player to buy.  I mean 1 store room or 1 moat, maybe, but in general, nothing.  So, I think Vineyards will not work.

Now what about Minion --> Province.  Well, I don't think uncontested Minion with only doctor as support will beat uncontested Minion with Store room as support.  But maybe Minion-doctor, value FG > Silver could.

Probably just FG though.

So long as you have a decent number of Golems, the Vineyards player should not be afraid to get more than 1 Storeroom and Moat. And you actually want a bunch of those two, you just need to wait until your last couple turns after you've loaded up on the expensive actions.

[Eevee]

I peeked at the log, and unfortunately we don't get to learn anything about the engine.

I did stumble upon a cool "combo" though, didn't I! 5 provinces and a duchy in 12 turns be strong for a big money strategy? Realizing I could do that was one of the most satisfying "ooh!" moments I've ever had with dominion.

[Powerman]

So, the real question is can the engine player get to >6Pt vineyards reasonably quickly.  So basically 20+ Actions.

Well, that would probably be 6-8 Markets, 6-8 Minions, 2-4 Golems, 1 Doctor.  That is a LOT of expensive parts.  There is nothing on the board 2-4 for the engine player to buy.  I mean 1 store room or 1 moat, maybe, but in general, nothing.  So, I think Vineyards will not work.

Now what about Minion --> Province.  Well, I don't think uncontested Minion with only doctor as support will beat uncontested Minion with Store room as support.  But maybe Minion-doctor, value FG > Silver could.

Probably just FG though.

So long as you have a decent number of Golems, the Vineyards player should not be afraid to get more than 1 Storeroom and Moat. And you actually want a bunch of those two, you just need to wait until your last couple turns after you've loaded up on the expensive actions.

Well yeah, at the end.  I'm talking about the early turns where you don't have $5 to spend.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I peeked at the log, and unfortunately we don't get to learn anything about the engine.

I did stumble upon a cool "combo" though, didn't I! 5 provinces and a duchy in 12 turns be strong for a big money strategy? Realizing I could do that was one of the most satisfying "ooh!" moments I've ever had with dominion.

It was a neat game for sure, but I don't think you can count on drawing 4 of 6 FG in a single hand in general!

[Polk5440]

I like Storeroom-Fool's Gold a lot with Venture added in on 5-7 after Fool's Gold runs out. Especially if the other player is going Vineyards -- you want to hope to win without buying Duchies to bring the game to a quick end. Minion's attack looks like it will hurt REAL bad, though. It limits Storeroom.

I can think of two tweaks:

Option 1: What about the addition of some Moats? You can reveal and block the attack when your hand is good and draw 2 cards giving you 6 cards instead of 4 (and discard when it's bad!). You would have to trade off some Storerooms or Fool's Golds early a couple of times, though, and that may end up being not that big of an improvement.

Option 2: Hope to get a really big hand early and overpay Doctor clearing out Coppers and Estates. So what if you have 4 cards every turn, if they're all good? Even better if you can clear out ALL those coppers -- Venture would never miss!

I think if I had to play this, and my opponent went engine, I would go for option 2.

I really like this kingdom!! Thanks for posting. I am curious what actually happened.

[DG]

The problem with minions and vineyards here is to both relentlessly attack and ensure a potion in hand to spend. This will prevent any poorly constructed minion decks from achieving the expected endgame control.

[dondon151]

A better idea than a "Minion" deck is a bit of a drawing engine with Golem into Minions/Markets/Moats. Vineyards can be really strong here.

[Eevee]

Here is what actually happened: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130728/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1375031488299.txt. Drawing 14 money on turn 6 and trashing 8 cards by overpaying for doctor was a fortunate feat.

[Polk5440]

Wow. Only 12 turns to 5 Provinces. Very nice.

[Kirian]

Yes, drawing 4 FG out of 6 without having trashed anything probably counts for "most ridiculous luck ever."