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Author Topic: A really bad variant idea  (Read 9169 times)

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Awaclus

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A really bad variant idea
« on: July 27, 2013, 08:31:36 pm »
+2

All the cards in the game cost the alphabetical value of their names' first letter in coins instead of the printed cost. Alphabetical value here means that each letter is represented by its position in the alphabet, ie. A=1, B=2, C=3, etc. Everything else will stay the same.

This variant was inspired by this post. I didn't give it a huge amount of thought, but I went through all the cards to see how ridiculous they would be. Feast was the most amusing one.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 08:32:45 pm by Awaclus »
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liopoil

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 08:35:18 pm »
0

BoM and border village... are not good cards anymore :(

(well, that's true of cards that cost a lot in this variant too)
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Simon (DK)

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 09:27:34 pm »
+2

Colony is suddenly the cheapest victory card in the game.
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SirPeebles

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2013, 09:43:29 pm »
+1

Big Money + Adventurer is awesome in Colony rushes.

Also, Butchering Copper into Colony.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 09:44:37 pm by SirPeebles »
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sudgy

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2013, 09:45:18 pm »
+2

At least it nerfs Rebuild...
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mail-mi

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 12:17:24 am »
0

Wandering Minstrel becomes the worst village ever.

Workshop becomes basically useless.
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BadAssMutha

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 12:24:21 am »
+4

Worker's Village could also be the worst village in this case. Also, I didn't think Scout could get any worse, but here we are...
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Powerman

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2013, 12:33:38 am »
+5

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dondon151

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2013, 03:32:15 am »
+2

Worker's Village could also be the worst village in this case. Also, I didn't think Scout could get any worse, but here we are...

Hey, it could have been called Zcout instead.
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Awaclus

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2013, 04:13:04 am »
+3

BoM and border village... are not good cards anymore :(

(well, that's true of cards that cost a lot in this variant too)
Actually, Border Village is a very good card, because usually it's just a Village for $2 and there aren't a lot of villages you are realistically able to ever afford.
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Powerman

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2013, 10:23:29 am »
+7

BoM and border village... are not good cards anymore :(

(well, that's true of cards that cost a lot in this variant too)
Actually, Border Village is a very good card, because usually it's just a Village for $2 and there aren't a lot of villages you are realistically able to ever afford.

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markusin

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 11:43:44 am »
0

so does this mean you can't open silver anymore? That would turn BMU into a silly game where you try to 3-pile on Duchies, Copper, and Curse, or maybe Estate.

This variant ultra nerfs a lot of attack. Notables ones include Sea Hag, Swindler, Soothsayer, Torturer, Witch, and worst of all Young Witch.

What are some attacks that get buffed? Ambassador and Cultist!

What happens to the knights is also pretty weird. Half of them are really easy to pick up, and the other half are next to unbuyable.
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Awaclus

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2013, 11:59:22 am »
0

so does this mean you can't open silver anymore? That would turn BMU into a silly game where you try to 3-pile on Duchies, Copper, and Curse, or maybe Estate.

This variant ultra nerfs a lot of attack. Notables ones include Sea Hag, Swindler, Soothsayer, Torturer, Witch, and worst of all Young Witch.

What are some attacks that get buffed? Ambassador and Cultist!

What happens to the knights is also pretty weird. Half of them are really easy to pick up, and the other half are next to unbuyable.
Yeah, no Silver openings. Colony/Colony is possible, though.
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Kirian

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2013, 05:49:26 pm »
0

Coppersmith and Counting House are suddenly much more powerful.
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SirPeebles

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2013, 09:10:16 pm »
+4

One of the strongest combos is surely Bishop + Bureaucrat.  In place of Bureaucrat, you could buy Death Cart and hope not to get stuck Abandoned Mine.
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Awaclus

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2013, 09:14:24 pm »
+5

I feel like making some comments about all the possibly relevant cards (meaning: realistically possible to get or just hilariously bad or otherwise interesting) in this variant right now, so I'm going to do it!

Alchemist - Essentially a $1 Lab, which is good but not great, remembering that it'll just draw Coppers and Estates most of the time.
Apothecary - A power card. Getting them is very easy and just a couple of them will allow for relatively expensive purchases, if there any expensive cards you want.
Apprentice - Another power card, a must get. Absolutely sick with Shelters.
Familiar - You want it if you can get it. Emptying the Curse pile in the opponent's deck instead of your own is a big improvement for Duchy rush.
Golem - Depending on the kingdom, it might be anything between absurdly broken and absolutely useless. Usually quite close to the latter. Even if you only count games where it can be bought.

Adventurer - A solid card, you should usually get one or more.
Bureaucrat - The most powerful card in all of Dominion. Well, not quite, but it's actually very powerful and one of the top cards.
Cellar - It's not a bad card, but it's not very good either. You might prefer a single Cellar over a Copper, sometimes two, but probably you should be focusing on the Coppers.
Chancellor - You probably want Chancellors, it's a decent card.
Chapel - Should be ignored on most boards.
Council Room - Very powerful. It can enable alternative strategies in theory but probably doesn't in practice, since it's so good in Duchy rushes too.
Feast - Is useless in a very entertaining way.
Festival - You probably don't need this that much.
Gardens - A Gardens based strategy isn't viable, but a couple of Gardenses in a Duchy rush can be helpful if you can get them.

Fairgrounds - I imagine that in the right circumstances, this can even beat Duchy rush. Maybe. It's our only hope!
Farming Village - If Farming Village is the Village you need, you are better off choosing a way to rush the Duchies without the need for a village.
Fortune Teller - It's not going to make a big enough difference to be worth it when you could just be gaining Duchies or Estates instead.

Altar - Great for piledriving purposes but otherwise useless.
Armory - Same as above, except it's better.
Band of Misfits - There is little point in getting this instead of the $1 you want to play.
Bandit Camp - Very good.
Beggar - Very good.
Catacombs - Very good.
Count - Awesome.
Counterfeit - It's strictly better than Copper.
Cultist - I think Cultist is a great card here, because it helps you, hurts your opponent and empties a pile.
Death Cart - A convenient way of getting those expensive cards you want.
Feodum - Without a way to get tons of Silver, this isn't very good.
Rats - This with Apprentice = awesomeness. It's pretty difficult to get Rats, though.

Border Village - The cheapest village in the game; it's not game breaking but decent.
Cache - It's very good.
Cartographer - Probably quite good.
Crossroads - Decent, but not great.
Develop - Develop Estates into Duchies (and sometimes something starting with an F) sounds like a good plan to me.
Duchess - You don't want to ever buy this card because Duchy costs $4 too and then you'll get one of these for free.
Embassy - The Silver gain is much more relevant than normally. The card is still good, but less so than in regular Dominion.
Trader - Yo dawg, I heard you like piles so we put a Silver pile in your discard pile.

Baron - A great card, first you can get some $ to buy some Duchies, then you can start gaining Estates.
Bridge - it's good, but not totally awesome.
Conspirator - I'm not sure if you want a terminal Silver for $3. You probably do if there are no other terminals you want.
Coppersmith - Should be quite good.
Courtyard - It's a good card, loses a lot of power because of Silver not being available, though.
Duke - The most powerful card.
Swindler - Can still replace Copper with Curse, but now it can replace a Swindler with a Scout, too, so you don't have to spend time thinking if you want to give your opponent a new Swindler or a Silver instead. Unless you want to.

Black Market - If it wasn't swingy enough for you in normal Dominion... that aside, it's a terminal Silver for $2 which should be decent in any case.
Envoy - You have to pass up a Duchy for it, which isn't necessarily a very good idea, considering that it'll just draw mostly green cards in the late game.

Bank - Very good.
Bishop - Bishop could beat Duchy rush.
City - Another cheap Village. It's almost guaranteed to level up at some point.
Contraband - Having Duchy named hurts a lot, you don't probably want it.
Counting House - It's a good card.
Expand - Very good, you can replace your Coppers with Duchies.
Forge - It might take quite a while to make decisions. It's not very good on most boards, I imagine.
Goons - It's still very powerful. The discard attack loses a lot of power, but the VP part is now so strong that a single Goons alone can turn the tides. Not being able to buy free stuff is a big drawback though.
Grand Market - The most expensive card in this variant.
Peddler - Have you ever felt like it is a waste of something when you have 5 actions in play and buy Peddler? No problem!

Ambassador - You could buy it and a Curse, but it's difficult to say how good it is.
Bazaar - Another cheap Village and a very good one at that.
Caravan - It's a good card, though +card is still less useful than normally.
Cutpurse - Very good.
Embargo - Win the Duchy split and Embargo the Estates.
Explorer - Man, they can't all be the best $5. Actually Explorer is quite good here.
Ghost Ship - Painful games.
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SirPeebles

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2013, 09:40:11 pm »
0

I like that you grouped the expansions alphabetically, but you left out Guilds.
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sudgy

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2013, 09:52:26 pm »
0

I've noticed that Baker, Butcher, and Candlestick Maker are all really good.  Save those coins for spendy purchases!

Also, Colonies completely change the game.  And Potions are worthless.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Grujah

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2013, 10:13:35 pm »
0

Death Cart + Apprentice = +1 Action +19 cards.

Death Cart  + Bishop = +10VP. Nice.

Salvager also, if you can get one.

Actually, Bishop is amazing with anything that can get you a high cost card for cheap. Like, Anything that gains a silver (Bureaucrat mainly) , Bandit Camp getting Spoils.

Dames outclass Sirs by a LOT.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 10:25:39 pm by Grujah »
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SirPeebles

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2013, 10:23:09 pm »
0

All of the Ruins aside from Abandoned Mine give the same number of VP with Bishop.
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Grujah

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2013, 10:26:07 pm »
0

Right.

Open Conspirators / Chapel, rush Conspirators ?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 10:27:39 pm by Grujah »
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2013, 12:55:38 am »
0

Dames outclass Sirs by a LOT.
But the sirs can only die if they kill a dame.  So if you can manage to get one, there's a good chance he'll stick around (especially if the next knight in the pile is a sir).

Edit: Edge cases: throne/KC/procession bridge, bridge with highway, quarry in play from black market.  Note that if you have only highway, you can't even get enough of them to lower the sirs into the $3 to $6 range.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:59:16 am by scott_pilgrim »
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Awaclus

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2013, 07:42:40 am »
0

I like that you grouped the expansions alphabetically, but you left out Guilds.
That's because I used dominiondeck.com/cards and it doesn't have Guilds yet, which I totally forgot about.

Advisor - Not very great, but I think you'd rather have an Advisor than a Copper most of the time.
Baker - Great, getting some early makes the mid/end game much smoother.
Butcher - One of the more powerful cards, turning Estates into Duchies and giving you two tokens every time is very good.
Candlestick Maker - Worse than Baker but still clearly better than Copper, most of the time you probably want these.
Doctor - Trashing is pretty bad and Doctor is pretty bad at trashing.
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SirPeebles

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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2013, 09:00:40 am »
+3

Oh man, Beggar is an amazing defense versus Saboteur.
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Re: A really bad variant idea
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2013, 12:33:38 pm »
0

So what cards would you be able to add to the kingdom to turn it into something other than "buy Coppers / Colonys (or Duchys if you are playing without them)"? You need $7 to get a Gold. So you need cards starting at E or before that provided terminal gold (Beggar), Draw 3, non terminal handsize increasers/coin providers, or a village + other stuff. There are plenty of options, but it still probably seems like 50% chance the games turn into just figuring out what balance of coppers to get.   
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