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Author Topic: Rebuild help  (Read 1985 times)

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AHoppy

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Rebuild help
« on: July 14, 2013, 03:20:06 pm »
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What did I do wrong here?  Was it a mistake to buy duchies early rather than buy an extra rebuild?  Or was I just super unlucky rebuilding provinces twice?  Should I have not bought that early province?  Could it have been that my rebuilds didn't come up until my last hand when it was too late?  I'm just curious how much of this game was lost due to shuffle luck, and how much was due to tactical errors.  Actually a lot of my games I wonder that...

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130714/log.5066276dfca27235e40b6d1a.1373829172316.txt

DrFlux

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 04:35:57 pm »
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You definitely want at least 2 rebuilds, even when going against another rebuild strategy. Against a non-rebuild opponent, I'd even say you want 3, to drain the provinces and end the game faster.

I think I do like feast here over baron. I'd probably buy a feast most times I hit 4, until duchies are nearly out. You have no other terminals to play and you really want rebuilds and duchies, so yeah, its good.
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DrFlux

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 04:37:10 pm »
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yeah, I wouldn't have bought the province, I'd have bought a rebuild instead, but its bad luck getting 8 so early.
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AHoppy

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 04:42:41 pm »
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yeah, I wouldn't have bought the province, I'd have bought a rebuild instead, but its bad luck getting 8 so early.
haha only with rebuild :P  I was debating.  I couldn't decide between another rebuild or a province.  But the province caused me to help drain the provinces and didn't get me more points.  But I figured buying a province was +6 points, whereas rebuilding a duchy is +3...

SCSN

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2013, 04:57:11 pm »
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T1: Baron in stead of Feast.

Everything up to and including your T5 Province is fine, though I wouldn't hate a T5 Rebuild.

T7: You have one Province and one Duchy and just reshuffled, so you don't know where both are in your deck; definitely name Province in that case. And yes, also buy a 2nd Rebuild over a Duchy. One Rebuild just isn't enough.

T10: Had you kept track of your deck you knew your one remaining Estate was in the discard (the other was in your hand) and the other Province was left in your deck. Furthermore, 4 Duchies were in the discard. So naming Province would have given you 80% chance of Rebuilding Duchy -> Province and 20% chance of Rebuilding Estate -> Estate. I don't like your Silver buy here either. You don't want more money as you're not going to have enough to buy a Province directly anyway, and the game is just going to be over too soon to make investing in economy in order to buy other cards worth it. Estate, Spy and Bishop all look decent here, though none seems particularly great.

T11: Given that you have 2 Estates and only 1 Province, I'd buy an Estate. Adding more Silvers to your deck accomplishes nothing.
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AHoppy

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 01:35:29 am »
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T1: Baron in stead of Feast.

Everything up to and including your T5 Province is fine, though I wouldn't hate a T5 Rebuild.

T7: You have one Province and one Duchy and just reshuffled, so you don't know where both are in your deck; definitely name Province in that case. And yes, also buy a 2nd Rebuild over a Duchy. One Rebuild just isn't enough.

T10: Had you kept track of your deck you knew your one remaining Estate was in the discard (the other was in your hand) and the other Province was left in your deck. Furthermore, 4 Duchies were in the discard. So naming Province would have given you 80% chance of Rebuilding Duchy -> Province and 20% chance of Rebuilding Estate -> Estate. I don't like your Silver buy here either. You don't want more money as you're not going to have enough to buy a Province directly anyway, and the game is just going to be over too soon to make investing in economy in order to buy other cards worth it. Estate, Spy and Bishop all look decent here, though none seems particularly great.

T11: Given that you have 2 Estates and only 1 Province, I'd buy an Estate. Adding more Silvers to your deck accomplishes nothing.
Why do you say baron over feast?

Warfreak2

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 03:29:28 am »
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Baron is going to get you to $5 at least once anyway, probably more than once, and it can gain Estates later. It also creates the possibility of lucky hands like Baron/Estate/Copper/Copper/Silver that buy a Province.
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SCSN

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 05:07:31 am »
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Why do you say baron over feast?

Because economy is absolutely critical early on as you want to get to 5 alot (to buy 2 Rebuilds and then Duchies). The only advantage of Feast is that you are slightly more likely to get a Rebuild during your 2nd shuffle, but it slows you down beyond that as you haven't invested in your economy. Baron is particularly nice in Rebuild games as it gives you great economy early on and can gain Estates later.

Also, for mostly the same reasons Feast is an absolutely terrible card in general. There are some rare spots where it can be decent, but if right now you think it's a good card and you find yourself buying it alot, I recommend to make "never ever buy it" your default response when you see Feast.
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AHoppy

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 07:59:47 am »
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Oh I know it's generally terrible. I just knew getting a rebuild was essential so I went for it. Yes, baron can do that too and I thought about it, but the reason I didn't open baron was that I didn't want to get burned by having too many estates and no duchies to rebuild into

Warfreak2

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 08:22:10 am »
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You should only gain an Estate with Baron either if you have none left and you are confident you can Rebuild it in time, or you can get a VP lead from extra Estates and win by always naming Estate, emptying the Provinces.
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AHoppy

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 08:44:54 am »
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Makes sense. Now, for future reference, would baron work to enable rebuild in a game with shelters? (Don't just say"it depends on the kingdom", yeah it does). But in general.

SCSN

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 09:02:16 am »
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Makes sense. Now, for future reference, would baron work to enable rebuild in a game with shelters? (Don't just say"it depends on the kingdom", yeah it does). But in general.

Absolutely.

And fwiw, I think the sentiment that Rebuild sucks in games with Shelters is misguided. It's slightly slower (my guess is by an average of 0.5-1.5 turns), but still very powerful and almost always the best strategy in a Province game.
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AHoppy

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 09:24:20 am »
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Alright thanks! What do you have to do differently with shelters?

Warfreak2

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Re: Rebuild help
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 09:56:39 am »
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My only advice is, on a 5/2 split, open Rebuild/Estate, trashing your Hovel. In the mirror, you normally want to be buying Duchies directly anyway, and your opponent also doesn't have them, so the lack of starting Estates isn't much of a concern. In the non-mirror, your opponent isn't playing Rebuild, so you just win a turn or two later than you would have otherwise. (If you don't win, congratulations, you probably played a board where Rebuild wasn't dominant, but commiserations, you didn't realise it).
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 09:57:41 am by Warfreak2 »
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