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Author Topic: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Town wins!)  (Read 45228 times)

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Twistedarcher

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #150 on: July 23, 2013, 12:11:54 am »

Vote Count 1.3

UmbrageofSnow (1, u1): Sudgy
Ashersky (2, u2): Liopoil, Nkirbit

Not voting (5): Jimmmm, EFHW, UmbrageofSnow, Ashersky

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is 10 pm forum time on Tuesday, July 23rd.

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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #151 on: July 23, 2013, 12:13:04 am »

Okay, so now that you know you were only kind of right, does that make him more or less suspicious to you?  Does the fact that he was honest make you more or less suspicious?

See, I don't think I can figure anything out about Ash from that bit of info, one way or another, anything that can be read into it seems just too specious to be useful to me.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #152 on: July 23, 2013, 12:18:13 am »

And also kind of wrong, actually!  He had the thought right with the confirmation, but he did know what he was.  Assuming we trust him.  Just not clear what you were hoping to get here.  But seems like it could be a way to differentiate him from other townies if he were town and you were scum, that's all I'm worrying about here.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #153 on: July 23, 2013, 12:40:27 am »

I'm not really sure what I was expecting. It was kind of reminding me of his plan in Masons and Monks, although much less controversial, in that he came straight into the game with a plan. I can't remember if he said he came up with it before or after he knew he was Town in that game, but he was Town. I was leaning slight Town on him (I still am), and had to remind myself that he probably came up with the plan before he knew if he was Town or scum. I just wanted to see what he would say to help my own thought processes and try to determine whether the intent of the plan is to help Town or to seem like it's helping Town.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #154 on: July 23, 2013, 12:41:56 am »

I'm not really sure what I was expecting. It was kind of reminding me of his plan in Masons and Monks, although much less controversial, in that he came straight into the game with a plan. I can't remember if he said he came up with it before or after he knew he was Town in that game, but he was Town. I was leaning slight Town on him (I still am), and had to remind myself that he probably came up with the plan before he knew if he was Town or scum. I just wanted to see what he would say to help my own thought processes and try to determine whether the intent of the plan is to help Town or to seem like it's helping Town.

In Masons and Monks, I definitely had my plan way before PMs.  But there was a long lead time into that game.
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sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #155 on: July 23, 2013, 01:42:58 am »

First, I realized, lio and I should NOT vote for others.  That's just giving more unique votes.  We shouldn't have RVSed, but it's too late now.  I'll Unvote now, but it won't change that now...

Also, I claim cop.  I am the real cop, don't listen to them!

Now, I would vote ash, but I don't want to give unique votes

Actually, I agree with Jimmmmm.  Vote: ashersky.  Either his plan was made before the game or he did to make himself seem like his town self, and he FoSed people who hadn't posted for a tiny bit.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #156 on: July 23, 2013, 01:45:20 am »

Wow, really?  L-1 already?  Anyone want to unvote?
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sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #157 on: July 23, 2013, 01:49:11 am »

Holy crap, I forgot that was L-1.  Unvote, but consider me voting for you.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #158 on: July 23, 2013, 01:49:22 am »

I'll have substantially less access starting in an hour or so, but available for the final 4 hours of the day.

I think this is a record for fastest L-1, ever.

I am the Doctor.  Now unvote, before scum hammers.
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sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #159 on: July 23, 2013, 01:51:44 am »

I'll have substantially less access starting in an hour or so, but available for the final 4 hours of the day.

I think this is a record for fastest L-1, ever.

I am the Doctor.  Now unvote, before scum hammers.

Sorry!  Any counterclaims?

Also, it makes sense for a quick L-1, as this is Blitz...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #160 on: July 23, 2013, 01:55:12 am »

Also, it makes sense for a quick L-1, as this is Blitz...

I mean, I guess so, but there just hasn't been much to go on.  For now, I'm going to vote: nkirbit as I think his reaction was the worst (scummiest) to my plan.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #161 on: July 23, 2013, 01:59:29 am »

We've really had two genuine claims on day 1? That kind of sucks really. Just hoping that scum aren't able to take out our two PRs in two nights.

I'm going out this afternoon/evening and should be back to post some time tonight and then tomorrow morning before deadline. Don't do anything stupid.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #162 on: July 23, 2013, 02:01:08 am »

We've really had two genuine claims on day 1? That kind of sucks really. Just hoping that scum aren't able to take out our two PRs in two nights.

I'm going out this afternoon/evening and should be back to post some time tonight and then tomorrow morning before deadline. Don't do anything stupid.

Well, it depends if you consider nkirbit's "no cop" claim to mean he's not the cop or he's not claiming he's the cop, but yes.

I was at L-1, man.  The freaking RVS vote is still there.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #163 on: July 23, 2013, 02:02:06 am »

We've really had two genuine claims on day 1? That kind of sucks really. Just hoping that scum aren't able to take out our two PRs in two nights.

I'm going out this afternoon/evening and should be back to post some time tonight and then tomorrow morning before deadline. Don't do anything stupid.

Well, it depends if you consider nkirbit's "no cop" claim to mean he's not the cop or he's not claiming he's the cop, but yes.

I was at L-1, man.  The freaking RVS vote is still there.

I know. I mostly blame sudgy for that one.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #164 on: July 23, 2013, 02:02:49 am »

We've really had two genuine claims on day 1? That kind of sucks really. Just hoping that scum aren't able to take out our two PRs in two nights.

I'm going out this afternoon/evening and should be back to post some time tonight and then tomorrow morning before deadline. Don't do anything stupid.

Well, it depends if you consider nkirbit's "no cop" claim to mean he's not the cop or he's not claiming he's the cop, but yes.

I was at L-1, man.  The freaking RVS vote is still there.

I know. I mostly blame sudgy for that one.

Having said that, your claim did come after he had unvoted. Check your PPEs people!
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #165 on: July 23, 2013, 02:06:15 am »

Having said that, your claim did come after he had unvoted. Check your PPEs people!

11 seconds.  With important stuff, I sometimes rush it. 
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liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #166 on: July 23, 2013, 09:25:14 am »

Unvote

man, I go to sleep and terrible stuff happens. Frustrated at this town.

first, frustrated at myself for making an RVS vote in a unique votes game and not removing it before I left.
second, frustrated at sudgy for putting someone at L-1 without checking. always always check.
third, a little frustrated at Jimmmmm for putting ash at L-2 when there was a vote on him that shouldn't be there
fourth, frustrated at people for thinking ash is scum. I don't get it at all.

the above resulted in outing our doctor. I will be very surprised if there are counterclaims.

fifth, frustrated at people for following this ridiculous plan.

why is this plan ridiculous? because it CANNOT HELP TOWN, it can ONLY HURT TOWN. it cannot help town because the best-case scenario scum ignore all the claiming. worst case scenario someone kinda slips and scum successfully get info on who the cop really is.
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liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #167 on: July 23, 2013, 09:26:18 am »

already we have significantly lowered our chance of winning, which could easily have been avoided. We have outed the doc, and I'm sure scum have a good idea who the cop is.
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liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #168 on: July 23, 2013, 09:45:43 am »

ahh, I now see that it was nkirbit, not Jimmmm, who was the second on the ash wagon. whoops.
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liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #169 on: July 23, 2013, 09:50:10 am »

Right now my tentative scumread is Liopoil, because he hasn't unvoted or voted everyone else, like he said he would, and for the bit of hyperbole in his first post.  Having a cop is great, but having one that can't be protected isn't super-awesome.

our cop is super-awesome. they should investigate scum and report back so we can win and stuff.

Also, scum got to talk during the confirmation stage.  It would be good strategy to put a couple votes on some players when it was easy and then say "whoops!".
uuhhh what? no hyperbole from me. Our cop is super-awesome. being macho is not much of a nerf. it nerfs the doctor more really. Consider him just like a cop in a game with no protective roles. still awesome. If he could be protected than the cop would be super-OP.
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Voltaire

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #170 on: July 23, 2013, 09:50:37 am »

Vote Count 1.4

ashersky (1, u3): nkirbit
nkirbit (1, u1): ashersky

Not voting (5): Jimmmm, EFHW, UmbrageOfSnow (u1), liopoil, sudgy

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is 10 pm forum time on Tuesday, July 23rd
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #171 on: July 23, 2013, 10:55:31 am »

Holy crap, you guy put Ash at L-1 while I was asleep?  Eek.

I believe his Doc claim 100%.  I think his disagreement with what he thought the plan was and what some of us thought the plan was comes from him wanting to help doc and us focusing more on confusing scum.  I kind of picked up on that earlier but didn't want to say anything.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #172 on: July 23, 2013, 11:05:22 am »

Okay, so almost nothing's happened since I was out. I also believe ash's Doc claim and will continue to do so until someone contests it. liopoil's frustration seems genuine. No one else has really jumped out at me. Off to do some re-reads.
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liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #173 on: July 23, 2013, 11:08:00 am »

people who have posted but haven't counterclaimed:

liopoil, Umbrage, Jimmm, Sudgy

so we're waiting on nkirbit and EFHW.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #174 on: July 23, 2013, 11:17:52 am »

This seems like hyperbole to me, and a significant change from how Liopoil was talking about these issues yesterday:
already we have significantly lowered our chance of winning, which could easily have been avoided. We have outed the doc, and I'm sure scum have a good idea who the cop is.

Unvote

man, I go to sleep and terrible stuff happens. Frustrated at this town.

first, frustrated at myself for making an RVS vote in a unique votes game and not removing it before I left.
second, frustrated at sudgy for putting someone at L-1 without checking. always always check.
...
fifth, frustrated at people for following this ridiculous plan.

why is this plan ridiculous? because it CANNOT HELP TOWN, it can ONLY HURT TOWN. it cannot help town because the best-case scenario scum ignore all the claiming. worst case scenario someone kinda slips and scum successfully get info on who the cop really is.

But regarding the plan, yesterday Liopoil said
I don't really see why the claims mean anything. The people aren't actually saying that they're the cop. scum can just ignore the claims.

So why does he go from this to complete "Scum know who the cop is" "This plan is terrible, I'm mad at town for following it."
Those objections should have come up from him yesterday, if he thought this was going to matter, not after the damage (such as it is) is already done.  Now I don't think we've ruined our chances at all, at least not from how I see the plan working, but it's clear that Liopoil thinks that we have, and this makes him scummy to me.  It makes him more likely to be scum who thinks he knows more than he actually does.

crap, just realized... this game uses unique votes as a tiebreaker!!! that means... RVS is bad! and I RVSed!! sudgy did too. that could be a problem...

And after this quote, Liopoil suggests unvoting and voting on everyone else once to even things out.  BUT HE NEVER DOES IT.  Liopoil had plenty of time to fix his mistake yesterday, and he clearly realized it and was online for quite a while after realizing it, but he did nothing.  That seems like the kind of "oops I forgot" that can hurt town while hoping to make it look accidental, particularly if his scum partner wanted to come in and hammer Ash in the night and Liopoil might not have been online during that time.  That might have almost happened, I don't know, but Liopoil's declining to unvote after talking about how bad it is seems really suspicious.

Vote: Liopoil
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