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Author Topic: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Town wins!)  (Read 45208 times)

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EFHW

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #125 on: July 22, 2013, 11:25:50 pm »

Yay, we get to be super-awesome!
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #126 on: July 22, 2013, 11:26:09 pm »

I claim cop!

I am no cop.

Claiming not cop is very bad for this plan.  Also, it is VERY bad for town, as it narrows down scum's options.  This is a voteable offense.

So your plan was to get three people to get cop, then throw suspicion on the other four?

Vote: Ashersky

Where did you get that twisted idea?  My plan is to get three people to claim cop, and then continue the game normally.

Your reaction is very, very odd.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #127 on: July 22, 2013, 11:27:35 pm »

I claim cop!

I am no cop.

Claiming not cop is very bad for this plan.  Also, it is VERY bad for town, as it narrows down scum's options.  This is a voteable offense.
Isn't it WIFOM like the rest?

Maybe.  But it's very clearly a deviation from the plan, which throws off the plan's efficacy.  That's the issue with it.

If nkirbit's the Cop, that's just an odd thing to say.  If he didn't want to claim, he waits for three others.  Plus, the typo is weird.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #128 on: July 22, 2013, 11:27:43 pm »

Yay, we get to be super-awesome!

I'll grow a powerful moustache!
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nkirbit

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #129 on: July 22, 2013, 11:28:28 pm »

I claim cop!

I am no cop.

Claiming not cop is very bad for this plan.  Also, it is VERY bad for town, as it narrows down scum's options.  This is a voteable offense.

So your plan was to get three people to get cop, then throw suspicion on the other four?

Vote: Ashersky

Where did you get that twisted idea?  My plan is to get three people to claim cop, and then continue the game normally.

Your reaction is very, very odd.

Right.  I'm saying I'm not a cop.  Three people are saying they are cops.  Obviously, there are multiple people lying on one side.. why are you assuming that everyone other the other side must be telling the truth?  You said yourself that the people claiming not cop could in fact be cops
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #130 on: July 22, 2013, 11:28:45 pm »

But Ash, maybe "that's an odd thing to say" is exactly the reasoning he's going for?  You don't know.  Which is good, because none of us know, so scum doesn't know.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #131 on: July 22, 2013, 11:31:57 pm »

But Ash, maybe "that's an odd thing to say" is exactly the reasoning he's going for?  You don't know.  Which is good, because none of us know, so scum doesn't know.

But just not claiming is the same.  If we have everyone say cop/not cop, that would suck.

What's odd to me is the way he's twisted my plan into something nefarious.  That's a scum move.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #132 on: July 22, 2013, 11:32:31 pm »

Also, his vote put me at L-2, which is awful dangerous in a 7-player blitz game.  But he didn't note it or take in into consideration.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #133 on: July 22, 2013, 11:33:28 pm »

We should all really be carefully throwing around our votes here.

Especially with the unique votes thing.  And especially with Ash and I already having votes on us.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #134 on: July 22, 2013, 11:35:01 pm »

I guess there's a difference between saying "I claim not Cop" and "I don't claim Cop". If nkirbit is treating these two as the same, then we don't really have a problem, and his non-claim can't be any more or less trusted or suspicious than the claims of EFHW and Snow.
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nkirbit

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #135 on: July 22, 2013, 11:36:07 pm »

How is not claiming any different from saying "not cop".  It's just me saying that I'm not going to claim cop.  None of these claims have a shred of credence, anyway.

It wasn't clear to me you had such a difference between saying nothing and saying that you weren't going to claim cop.  I certainly don't see the difference between the two.  I just was acknowledging that EFHW claimed cop and stated that I wasn't going to claim.  If you want to take my claim and remake it into "I'm not going to claim cop", feel free to.  I think they're the same thing.

You're the one who found a player scummy because they didn't follow your plan exactly the way you envisioned it first.  I'm calling you out because I think it's easy to do that.  You had a plan for how things were going to go, and the first person who deviated from that you immediately called out as scummy.  I don't think the plan was especially clear, as I obviously got confused with it.  I can see scum setting this up as a trap, and letting their partner know in the QT so that they don't fall into it.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #136 on: July 22, 2013, 11:36:13 pm »

Also, I suggest we come to a consensus by deadline and not have to worry about the unique votes thing.
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nkirbit

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #137 on: July 22, 2013, 11:37:24 pm »

Also, his vote put me at L-2, which is awful dangerous in a 7-player blitz game.  But he didn't note it or take in into consideration.

I don't think it's dangerous.  If scum want to quickhammer you, I'd be ecstatic.  L-1 is the dangerous point, since we have only two scum.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #138 on: July 22, 2013, 11:39:26 pm »

Also, I suggest we come to a consensus by deadline and not have to worry about the unique votes thing.

I agree, I would prefer this, but I don't think we can just guarantee we don't have to worry about it.

I think we should lynch only scum and not make any dumb mistakes!

We should try our best for these type of goals, but I think they're worth worrying about, because there is a lot of potential for us to screw up.  Especially with these deadlines.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #139 on: July 22, 2013, 11:39:48 pm »

ashersky, did you come up with your plan before or after you received your role PM?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #140 on: July 22, 2013, 11:42:28 pm »

That's rolefishing on the one hand, and unhelpful on the other.

If this is Ash's nefarious scum-plan, he'll lie.  If he is cop, he should lie, if he is VT or came up with it beforehand maybe he'll tell the truth, but none of us would trust it anyway.

Why ask this, Jimmmm?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #141 on: July 22, 2013, 11:44:36 pm »

Between the rolefishing and the "let's not worry about this thing that could potentially cause a lynch we don't want after a claim", FoS: Jimmmmm.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #142 on: July 22, 2013, 11:46:06 pm »

That's rolefishing on the one hand, and unhelpful on the other.

If this is Ash's nefarious scum-plan, he'll lie.  If he is cop, he should lie, if he is VT or came up with it beforehand maybe he'll tell the truth, but none of us would trust it anyway.

Why ask this, Jimmmm?

Just wondering what if anything we can deduce about his alignment based on his suggesting this plan. My suspicion is nothing, but I don't think him replying one way or another will give scum any extra information.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #143 on: July 22, 2013, 11:48:15 pm »

ashersky, did you come up with your plan before or after you received your role PM?

After.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #144 on: July 22, 2013, 11:48:46 pm »

ashersky, did you come up with your plan before or after you received your role PM?

After.

Well, sort of.  In my confirmation reply to TA, I said "you're gonna love my plan!"
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #145 on: July 22, 2013, 11:50:00 pm »

Oh crap, I fully intended to confirm that I was a man with three buttocks in my confirmation reply and forgot.
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #146 on: July 22, 2013, 11:51:37 pm »

Honestly, I looked at Doctor + Macho Cop, then thought about how it was designed to foil Follow the Cop, then thought about how we could still use those two roles to beat scum.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #147 on: July 22, 2013, 11:52:01 pm »

Seriously though, I don't think scumAsh or TownAsh would really come up with plans any differently, just with different goals in mind.

But Officer EFHW and I both thought it was a good or at least fun idea and harmless, so no matter what you can feel safe knowing we have at least one town in favor of this plan.
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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #148 on: July 22, 2013, 11:56:21 pm »

Between the rolefishing and the "let's not worry about this thing that could potentially cause a lynch we don't want after a claim", FoS: Jimmmmm.

Okay.

First of all, the unique votes thing. This is what I'm afraid will happen if we worry to much about it. No one will vote until very shortly before deadline, at which point whoever's schedules allow them to be online at that particular time will get full control of the vote. This is contrary to normal voting procedure, in which votes are built up over the course of the Day, giving time for reactions to votes etc. Wagons are a powerful thing, and if we try to limit them we're costing ourselves information. Having said that, I totally agree with not taking anyone to L-2 prematurely.

Secondly, admittedly my question referred to "role PM", but his actual specific role in terms of PR or VT if he's Town was the furthest thing from my mind. I suspect that he came up with it before he knew if he was Town or scum, in which case we can't tell anything from it about whether he is Town or scum. But if he wants to argue that he would only have thought of it as Town, or that he would never suggest it as scum, then that could potentially give us clues to his alignment, which is certainly all I'm after.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #149 on: July 22, 2013, 11:57:58 pm »

But Officer EFHW and I both thought it was a good or at least fun idea and harmless, so no matter what you can feel safe knowing we have at least one town in favor of this plan.

Meh, I think the plan's pretty harmless as long as no one gets stupid about it. What's in question is ash's alignment, not the goodness of the plan.
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