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Author Topic: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Town wins!)  (Read 12271 times)

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Twistedarcher

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Thread Locked!

PMs are going out shortly. Please confirm once you get yours. The game will start sometime Monday, assuming everyone confirms.

If anyone would like to help moderate, I would appreciate your help.

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Twistedarcher

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Confirmation Stage)
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2013, 12:58:26 am »

PMs sent. Please confirm!
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Twistedarcher

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Confirmation Stage)
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2013, 01:56:39 pm »

The game will start at 8 pm.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2013, 07:58:32 pm »

The townspeople were in shock when they heard the news. A murder? In their lovely little village? Who would dare do such a wicked deed?

Scarcely believing the news, the townspeople rushed to the house of Twistedarcher, one by one. Jimmmm gasped when he saw the body, while EFHW broke down into tears.

"Who could do this?" Liopoil asked out loud. "Such an evil thing to do, to kill an innocent townsperson! It must have taken someone evil to do such a thing!"

Sudgy looked around the house, seeing if he could find any evidence. However, it was Nkirbit who called out first, noticing bloody fingerprints on the door.

After everyone inspected the fingerprints, UmbrageofSnow noticed something. "Hey, there's TWO sets of fingerprints here! That means...the murderer wasn't alone! There's two people out there!"

Everyone looked around at one another. Ashersky immediately blurted out, "It wasn't me! Don't look here!"

The door to the house was barred. The townspeople were determined not to leave until they figured out who was a simple Town Member , and who had been a member of the Mafia all along!





Thread unlocked!! Day 1 begins!


Vote Count 1.1

Not voting (7): Jimmmm, EFHW, Liopoil, Sudgy, Nkirbit, UmbrageofSnow, Ashersky

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is 10 pm forum time on Tuesday, July 23rd.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 11:19:30 pm by Twistedarcher »
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sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2013, 07:59:45 pm »

First!  Now to read the post...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2013, 08:01:32 pm »

Why can't we inspect everybody's fingerprints and see which is the killer's?  Do we all have un-takeoffable gloves or something?

Alright, Vote: UmbrageofSnow for having never played with him before.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2013, 08:07:44 pm »

Ashersky immediately blurted out, "It wasn't me! Don't look here!"
Vote: Ashersky
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liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2013, 08:11:49 pm »

7 people is not very many. to win, we MUST lynch both scum before mislynching twice, unless our doc stops the kill TWICE. but we've got some PRs to help us!

our cop is super-awesome. they should investigate scum and report back so we can win and stuff.
our doc isn't too powerful. If he manages to block the kill once, all we get is an extra night of investigations after no lynch. If he blocks it twice we get an extra mislynch, which is awesome, but unlikely. Plus he can only save VTs, not the cop.
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nkirbit

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2013, 08:14:05 pm »

Hi guys!

Not much theory talking to do here, really.  No plans to come up with.  Just catch scum!  Nice and simple!
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2013, 08:14:22 pm »

Okay, I have a plan!
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2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2013, 08:15:29 pm »

7 people is not very many. to win, we MUST lynch both scum before mislynching twice, unless our doc stops the kill TWICE. but we've got some PRs to help us!

our cop is super-awesome. they should investigate scum and report back so we can win and stuff.
our doc isn't too powerful. If he manages to block the kill once, all we get is an extra night of investigations after no lynch. If he blocks it twice we get an extra mislynch, which is awesome, but unlikely. Plus he can only save VTs, not the cop.
actually, the main utility of our doc is as a named townie I think. that is, the only way we can mislynch him is if scum fakeclaims.
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sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2013, 08:15:54 pm »

Days will still end when a majority vote happens, right?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

nkirbit

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2013, 08:16:50 pm »

Okay, I have a plan!

Oh boy oh boy oh boy!  Is this one of those plans you share?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2013, 08:17:43 pm »

Days will still end when a majority vote happens, right?

Correct.
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liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2013, 08:18:20 pm »

crap, just realized... this game uses unique votes as a tiebreaker!!! that means... RVS is bad! and I RVSed!! sudgy did too. that could be a problem...
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ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2013, 08:18:46 pm »

I think three people should claim cop.

Here's why:

1.  We have a cop, but he's unprotectable.  Mafia wants to kill the Cop.  They have a 1/5 chance of randomly catching him.
2.  We have a doctor, but he can't protect the cop.  Mafia kind of cares, but not really.  The doctor can protect 3/6 other players, so a 50% chance of choosing someone protectable.

I think we want to WIFOM the heck out of mafia, who have a pretty sweet situation here.  2/7 is like starting off a regular game on D3.  They're trying to get us to lylo or worse as quickly as we can.

3 claimed cops basically forces mafia to kill among them.  Why?  Did the real cop claim in that 3?  We don't know.  That's the point.  I don't want anyone to suggest if the real cop should claim among three or not.  Did scum claim among the three?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

I think three players should claim to be the cop.  Then we should proceed normally.  Night actions should be taken according to the PRs' preferences.  But the 3 cop claims will add necessary WIFOM to the mafia decision, which will help town.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2013, 08:20:52 pm »

7 people is not very many. to win, we MUST lynch both scum before mislynching twice, unless our doc stops the kill TWICE. but we've got some PRs to help us!

our cop is super-awesome. they should investigate scum and report back so we can win and stuff.
our doc isn't too powerful. If he manages to block the kill once, all we get is an extra night of investigations after no lynch. If he blocks it twice we get an extra mislynch, which is awesome, but unlikely. Plus he can only save VTs, not the cop.
actually, the main utility of our doc is as a named townie I think. that is, the only way we can mislynch him is if scum fakeclaims.

I think a scum fakeclaim is stupid, since I'd trade the Doc for a scum lynch any day of the week.

In fact, as an alternative to my plan: the Doctor could claim right away.  Scum would have to decide between killing the Doctor N1 or trying to hit the cop out of the other 4.  That helps scum in that they have a 25% chance of hitting the cop, instead of 20%.  But do they risk leaving the Doctor around as an IC?  I mean, all other townies go from 2/6 scum search to a 2/5, which is pretty great.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2013, 08:21:37 pm »

wait, I don't get it... how does this lower the chances of mafia killing the cop? won't they still have a 1/5 chance? (actually, that's only if we lynch scum today, it's a 1/4 chance if we don't). I mean, the claims won't mean anything...
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sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2013, 08:21:55 pm »

crap, just realized... this game uses unique votes as a tiebreaker!!! that means... RVS is bad! and I RVSed!! sudgy did too. that could be a problem...

Wait, what counts as a unique vote?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2013, 08:23:18 pm »

crap, just realized... this game uses unique votes as a tiebreaker!!! that means... RVS is bad! and I RVSed!! sudgy did too. that could be a problem...

Wait, what counts as a unique vote?
if two players have the same number of votes at the deadline, but one has two people who voted for them but later moved their vote, and the other only has one player who unvoted, then the one with two people gets lynched.

So this means that we shouldn't vote for people unless we want to lynch them.
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sudgy

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2013, 08:23:43 pm »

The doctor shouldn't claim unless he's about to be lynched.  Scum could just kill the Doc right away, then goodbye him.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ashersky

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2013, 08:23:54 pm »

wait, I don't get it... how does this lower the chances of mafia killing the cop? won't they still have a 1/5 chance? (actually, that's only if we lynch scum today, it's a 1/4 chance if we don't). I mean, the claims won't mean anything...

Good point on who we lynch today affecting my numbers.

The point is two-fold: 1) is intentional WIFOM to actually make it harder for scum to find the cop, and 2) is to force scum into making a decision early on, and on D1, when they can't discuss what to do.  Does scum join the 3 cop claims, to reduce the numbers there? 

Also, it creates discussion amongst us, and it is something to talk about which I think will help us scumhunt, something that's harder in blitz.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2013, 08:23:57 pm »

Quote
3 claimed cops basically forces mafia to kill among them.  Why?  Did the real cop claim in that 3?  We don't know.

If scum don't know if the real cop is in there, how does it make them kill among the three?

I don't see how this plan works at all.  Scum know about the plan, so they can just choose to ignore the claims entirely.

In fact, scum shouldn't kill within those three, because the doctor is going to protect within those three?  Does that mean the doctor should protect outside those three?  So many layers of decisions!
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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2013, 08:24:29 pm »

The doctor shouldn't claim unless he's about to be lynched.  Scum could just kill the Doc right away, then goodbye him.

My point is that if the Doctor claims early, it reduces the pool of possibly scum in exchange for probably dying N1.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

liopoil

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Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2013, 08:25:21 pm »

doctor shouldn't claim. The doctor is functionally IC because he won't be lynched. by claiming we give scum a better chance of killing the cop.
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