Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 21  All

Author Topic: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Town wins!)  (Read 12268 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3431
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2013, 09:17:56 pm »

Lio is posting more than his usual self
don't really think this is true... I'm usually on the upper-half of post counts. I was the highest town-aligned poster in mean girls, I think I was the most active while I was alive in bankers+S&N, and didn't exactly lurk through my other 3 completed games either.

Really?  I guess I was thinking about an ongoing game or something.  Still, you are in the town half of my reads anyway, and your unique vote thing was towny to suggest.

Sudgy is gaining scum points for not chiming in/agreeing.

Yay, when I'm not on I get more scum points!  My plan is working perfectly!


My highest scumread at the moment is ash, for proposing a random plan (I've heard he does this in town games though too), saying his major scumreads are all the people who haven't posted a single bit, and for randomly giving me scum points.

Have you given up on your three cop plan, Ash?

No.  I think it is still worthwhile.  I mean, as others may have pointed out, at the very worst, it does absolutely nothing.

3 players claiming cop early messed with scum heads more than town reads.

What is this referencing?
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2342
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2013, 09:22:20 pm »

messed should be messes
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2013, 09:23:14 pm »

Lio is posting more than his usual self
don't really think this is true... I'm usually on the upper-half of post counts. I was the highest town-aligned poster in mean girls, I think I was the most active while I was alive in bankers+S&N, and didn't exactly lurk through my other 3 completed games either.

Really?  I guess I was thinking about an ongoing game or something.  Still, you are in the town half of my reads anyway, and your unique vote thing was towny to suggest.

Sudgy is gaining scum points for not chiming in/agreeing.

Yay, when I'm not on I get more scum points!  My plan is working perfectly!
but are you on board for my plan?
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2342
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2013, 09:23:32 pm »

Lio is posting more than his usual self
don't really think this is true... I'm usually on the upper-half of post counts. I was the highest town-aligned poster in mean girls, I think I was the most active while I was alive in bankers+S&N, and didn't exactly lurk through my other 3 completed games either.

Really?  I guess I was thinking about an ongoing game or something.  Still, you are in the town half of my reads anyway, and your unique vote thing was towny to suggest.

Sudgy is gaining scum points for not chiming in/agreeing.

Yay, when I'm not on I get more scum points!  My plan is working perfectly!


My highest scumread at the moment is ash, for proposing a random plan (I've heard he does this in town games though too), saying his major scumreads are all the people who haven't posted a single bit, and for randomly giving me scum points.


Sudgy, we have very little to go on, so I'm laying out reads based on what there is.  Lurking in blitz is bad.  So that's that.

As for your scum points, it has nothing to do with not being online and everything to do with not responding to liopoil's plan.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3431
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2013, 09:26:48 pm »

Lio is posting more than his usual self
don't really think this is true... I'm usually on the upper-half of post counts. I was the highest town-aligned poster in mean girls, I think I was the most active while I was alive in bankers+S&N, and didn't exactly lurk through my other 3 completed games either.

Really?  I guess I was thinking about an ongoing game or something.  Still, you are in the town half of my reads anyway, and your unique vote thing was towny to suggest.

Sudgy is gaining scum points for not chiming in/agreeing.

Yay, when I'm not on I get more scum points!  My plan is working perfectly!
but are you on board for my plan?

If it gets close to the deadline, we could change our votes to change the uniqueness of them.  I don't think it's that important.
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2013, 09:28:02 pm »

Lio is posting more than his usual self
don't really think this is true... I'm usually on the upper-half of post counts. I was the highest town-aligned poster in mean girls, I think I was the most active while I was alive in bankers+S&N, and didn't exactly lurk through my other 3 completed games either.

Really?  I guess I was thinking about an ongoing game or something.  Still, you are in the town half of my reads anyway, and your unique vote thing was towny to suggest.

Sudgy is gaining scum points for not chiming in/agreeing.

Yay, when I'm not on I get more scum points!  My plan is working perfectly!
but are you on board for my plan?

If it gets close to the deadline, we could change our votes to change the uniqueness of them.  I don't think it's that important.
I guess that works too.
Logged

nkirbit

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2013, 09:29:37 pm »

Well, blitz deadlines are very, very hectic.  See the last blitz game, where we only got to our choice in the last 5 minutes or so.

If you're going to vote everyone, do it now, or just don't do it.  Pushing it off is bad.. you'll have so much more to talk about at that point.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2342
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #82 on: July 22, 2013, 09:32:09 pm »

If it gets close to the deadline, we could change our votes to change the uniqueness of them.  I don't think it's that important.

But you can't.  Unique votes don't go away, or change.

Here's why you ignoring this benefits scum.

Assume I get run up to 3 votes, 4 unique.  I claim Doctor.  No counterclaim.  Unvotes get me down to 1 vote.  I still lead the unique vote count.

Unless we get a majority lynch candidate, it only takes keeping me tied with the leading wagon to make sure I'm lynched.  Scum can manipulate that by just not voting, or not believing me.  It's close to deadline, we've got another player to 2 votes, but no one's willing to pull the trigger.  One scum vote on me makes me the lynch again.

Unique votes are able to be manipulated.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #83 on: July 22, 2013, 09:34:30 pm »

it probably won't end up mattering though. And if it does, I promise to fix it. but if it doesn't end up mattering, then by not doing it now  I keep some of my power as counting as a unique vote.

ash, in your situation, I just vote for the other leading wagon...
Logged

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3431
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2013, 09:38:33 pm »

If it gets close to the deadline, we could change our votes to change the uniqueness of them.  I don't think it's that important.

But you can't.  Unique votes don't go away, or change.

Here's why you ignoring this benefits scum.

Assume I get run up to 3 votes, 4 unique.  I claim Doctor.  No counterclaim.  Unvotes get me down to 1 vote.  I still lead the unique vote count.

Unless we get a majority lynch candidate, it only takes keeping me tied with the leading wagon to make sure I'm lynched.  Scum can manipulate that by just not voting, or not believing me.  It's close to deadline, we've got another player to 2 votes, but no one's willing to pull the trigger.  One scum vote on me makes me the lynch again.

Unique votes are able to be manipulated.

Wait, unique votes stick after people unvote?  I was thinking it was something to do with the people who were voting for the person at the time.  Could someone explain exactly what a "unique" vote is, since it seems we're thinking something different...
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2013, 09:40:30 pm »

the number of unique votes a person has on them is the number of different people who have voted for that player at any point that day.
Logged

Twistedarcher

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2013, 09:41:25 pm »

During each day, the number of "unique" votes a player gets are calculated. Say Player A receives votes from Player B, Player C, and Player D. Player B and Player C eventually unvote player A. Player A would have 1 actual vote, but 3 unique votes. Unique votes, once they are made, stay there until the end of the day.

Unique votes are only used for breaking ties at the end of the day.

Let me know if this still isn't clear.

Logged

nkirbit

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2013, 09:43:04 pm »

Votes are still what's most important, like in a normal game.  But each player also has a unique vote count, which asks "How many different players have voted for me in this game?". 

If the day ends without a majority lynch, the player with the most votes in lynched.  If two players are tied with the most votes, the player with the most unique votes (between those two players who are tied) get lynched.

Say Sudgy, Ashersky, and Liopoil all vote me.  They later all unvote me, then Jimm, EFHW, and Ash come in and vote for me.  I would be at 3 votes, 5 unique votes.
Logged

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3431
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2013, 09:51:58 pm »

Alright, that makes sense, thanks.  Now that I know that, I still think it won't make too much of a difference if I do something now or later.  If I have too, it will take me half a minute to vote for someone else.
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2342
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2013, 10:06:32 pm »

You both could at least unvote your RVS votes.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

UmbrageOfSnow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • Shuffle iT Username: Umbrageofsnow
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2013, 10:23:36 pm »

Hey, 2 hours past the start, sorry I was hardcore lurking not around.

Scumread on Ash for forgetting my existence.  Up until then I thought his plan was pretty cool.

Seriously though, I like the idea of introducing random elements to mafia, particularly when it comes to optimal strategies for second guessing Mafia.  I was kind of getting sucked into an unrelated argument about this earlier today, but the fact is that a lot of times the game theory optimum play in games with mutual decision making (like night kills and doctor protections and cop investigations) is to have some amount of randomness in your decisions.

Mafia know who town are, so they're looking for the 2 power roles out of 7.  We are looking for the 2 scum out of 9.  Doc is looking for the 5 non-mafia, non-cops out of the 8 that aren't himself.

I like the chaos this would cause, and I suspect it would be pro-town.  I like that plan.  I like plans in general.

Don't have any serious reads yet.  Time for a reread!
Logged

EFHW

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: EFHW
  • EFHW="ee-foo". Really, how else would you say it?
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #91 on: July 22, 2013, 10:36:46 pm »

I think three people should claim cop.

I'd be up for trying this plan out.  I had a similar idea in another game (Innovation?) and didn't get to try it.  We've been playing with the "don't say anything" strategy for awhile now on f.ds.  I'd like to try something different like this. 
Logged

UmbrageOfSnow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • Shuffle iT Username: Umbrageofsnow
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #92 on: July 22, 2013, 10:42:04 pm »

Yeah, why are the RVS votes still up? With the tendency for people to log off and then not check in, and the short deadline, leaving stuff like that up seems like a small but unnecessary risk.
Logged

EFHW

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: EFHW
  • EFHW="ee-foo". Really, how else would you say it?
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #93 on: July 22, 2013, 10:48:42 pm »

And they've been asked twice to unvote.  Weird.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1759
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
    • LynchPool
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2013, 10:49:21 pm »

Hi all! So blitz. Both my favourite and least favourite way to play Mafia.

Okay, so I should definitely let you know my RL schedule for the next few days. Tomorrow, Wednesday my time, 3pm - 11pm I am working. Same for Thursday. Then Friday 1pm - 6pm followed by youth group and then Saturday 7am - 3pm. If you subtract 14 hours from those times, you get forum time, so Wednesday 3pm - 11pm becomes Wednesday 1am - 9am. I should be able to check in a few times while at work, and also in the morning and late at night my time.
Logged
Come and play Forum Mafia at LynchPool!

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1759
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
    • LynchPool
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2013, 10:52:49 pm »

I'm not sure about ash's plan. I mean, it's entirely possible that both scum will claim Cop, and if the third is the actual Cop then they know who to kill. On the other hand, the Cop might not even be one of the three, either because they didn't claim in time, or they chose not to. Either way, I don't think it gives terribly much information to either team, so in the end I'm not particularly against it.
Logged
Come and play Forum Mafia at LynchPool!

UmbrageOfSnow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • Shuffle iT Username: Umbrageofsnow
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2013, 10:56:42 pm »

My schedule is basically pure chaos.  I could either post my best attempt at generalities now, or my best attempt at specifics each day.  I'm open to either way of explaining it.

Regardless, I should be on until about 1 A.M. or so tonight (could push it a bit) then offline until maybe 10 A.M. tomorrow morning, where I'll be able to read enough to catch up, and make a few posts while doing other things until about noon, when I'll be offline from noon (or maybe 12:30 if I'm lucky) until evening.  I may be able to check in a bit around 2 P.M., but I cant promise, I'll be on again around 8.  Probably I'll either be able to check in in the afternoon or be on earlier near the deadline, but not both.  I'm going to aim for being around before the deadline by as much time as I can manage, but that is not likely to be prime chatting time for me.  I can read cases and change my vote, but I'll be able to put in the most serious time tonight and in the mid-morning tomorrow.

Can I just say that 8 P.M. is an awkwardly early time for deadlines for me.  A lot of times that's when I'll just be getting on, or later like tonight.  I will go somewhat out of my way for this game, however.  But I'd rather later (10 P.M., midnight) deadlines in general.
Logged

EFHW

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Shuffle iT Username: EFHW
  • EFHW="ee-foo". Really, how else would you say it?
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2013, 10:58:33 pm »

Right now my tentative scumread is Liopoil, because he hasn't unvoted or voted everyone else, like he said he would, and for the bit of hyperbole in his first post.  Having a cop is great, but having one that can't be protected isn't super-awesome.

7 people is not very many. to win, we MUST lynch both scum before mislynching twice, unless our doc stops the kill TWICE. but we've got some PRs to help us!

our cop is super-awesome. they should investigate scum and report back so we can win and stuff.
our doc isn't too powerful. If he manages to block the kill once, all we get is an extra night of investigations after no lynch. If he blocks it twice we get an extra mislynch, which is awesome, but unlikely. Plus he can only save VTs, not the cop.

Also, scum got to talk during the confirmation stage.  It would be good strategy to put a couple votes on some players when it was easy and then say "whoops!".
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1759
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
    • View Profile
    • LynchPool
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2013, 10:59:46 pm »

Can I just say that 8 P.M. is an awkwardly early time for deadlines for me.  A lot of times that's when I'll just be getting on, or later like tonight.  I will go somewhat out of my way for this game, however.  But I'd rather later (10 P.M., midnight) deadlines in general.

Hmm yes that's 6am for me, and given I'm working late, I'm not going to want to drag myself out of bed at 5 or 5:30. But I'll see.
Logged
Come and play Forum Mafia at LynchPool!

UmbrageOfSnow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • Shuffle iT Username: Umbrageofsnow
    • View Profile
Re: ZM15: Time for Something Completely Different (Day 1!)
« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2013, 11:00:52 pm »

So, I know we aren't allowed to talk about ongoing games, but at the same time, meta arguments are very popular round these parts.  Where's the line on that?  Is there a good rule of thumb?
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 21  All
 

Page created in 0.084 seconds with 20 queries.