Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6  All

Author Topic: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread  (Read 25443 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #100 on: August 18, 2014, 09:44:14 am »
+1

I've tried to be a bit adventurous with card art.




EDIT:
Some of the card text is wrong, and I'm also bad at saving my work.

From earlier (haven't put in the new template yet, also some the text is out of date)


« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 09:52:36 am by NoMoreFun »
Logged

silverspawn

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4026
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • ♦ Twilight ♦
  • Respect: +1769
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #101 on: August 18, 2014, 01:47:44 pm »
+1

The art (minus archer) looks cool, but it doesn't look like official cards. As long as that wasn't what you're going for, I'd say good job.

about the new cards, I'm afraid I'm less positive.

Diggings is just crazy with gainers.

Workshop/Armory: +1 Card, +2 Actions, gain a village
Ironworks: +1 Card, +3 Actions, gain a village

that has to have been your intention, since that's pretty much where it differes from basic village, but making all gainers op is not really great. I guess it also works for remodel cards, where it's probably less broken and might be cool. like fortress, it's a basic village sometimes, and pretty op a lot of other times, but it seems less interesting. dunno. no reason not to test it.

I'm not feeling prospector. It seems worse than squire, and it costs 4$. If you give it +1$ instead of the +action, it's probably fine, but not exciting. You could try to reuse the "anywhere in your deck" idea on another card though.

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1851
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #102 on: August 18, 2014, 02:17:18 pm »
0

Does Archer's attack really warrant it costing $6?
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #103 on: August 20, 2014, 03:35:40 am »
0

Does Archer's attack really warrant it costing $6?

No, but its comparable to Hunting Grounds as a drawer, and the attack would also be quite annoying if you could open with it.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #104 on: August 20, 2014, 03:41:21 am »
0

The art (minus archer) looks cool, but it doesn't look like official cards. As long as that wasn't what you're going for, I'd say good job.

The official cards don't seem to have any consistent style, so I've branched out a bit from the usual renaissance paintings.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6897
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9466
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #105 on: August 20, 2014, 03:35:11 pm »
+1

Quote
Amigos
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $3
+$1. At the start of your next turn, +1 Action.

When you discard this from play, draw an additional card at the end of that turn's Clean-up phase.

I strongly suggest trying Amigos with +$2 when played instead of +$1. The second and third turn bonuses are nice, but that delay matters.


Quote
Contrarian
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 Cards. Each player (including you) puts a card from his hand anywhere in his deck.

When you gain this, resolve the top Event of the Event deck.

This needs a clause to prevent other players from losing their whole hand. Other than that it seems good. On-gain seems like a promising place for Events.


Quote
Archer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $6
Each player (including you) reveals cards from his deck until he reveals one costing $3 or more. He either discards it or puts it back (you choose), and discards the other revealed cards.

Hmmm… I agree that the attack would be annoying on early turns, but I don't know that it justifies it costing $6. But I don't like the Attack in general. Usually you're cycling to and then discarding the opponents' good cards (until they green), which is a lot of digging for nothing. I don't have a suggested fix, but I don't like it as-is.


Quote
Cell
Types: Action
Cost: $0*
Trash this. Discard any number of cards from your hand. +1 Action per card discarded.

When you trash this, return it to the Cell pile. (This is not in the Supply.)

I think this is maybe too complex for a penalty card. The thing where it trashes itself and then that triggers the bottom is cute, but also convoluted. I'd rather see something along these lines:

Quote
Cell
Types: Action
Cost: $0*
Return this to the Cell pile.

When you trash this, put it into your discard pile. (This is not in the Supply.)

Obviously this is quite different, but it is much simpler. With Escape Artist in particular, this version of Cell actually hurts, which I think the other version usually won't (it makes you discard one card from your remaining hand of 5 cards).

EDIT: Oh, I see. There are only 7 copies of Cell. Hmm… Well, it's tough to have a penalty card that actually hurts yet players will usually want to return to the stack. If getting rid of the card is actually painful, then sometimes players will opt not to do so. Especially if there are only 7 copies.


Quote
Oppressor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck. Put one in your hand and discard the others. Each other player reveals the top card of his deck. If it isn't a Cell, he gains a Cell from the Cell pile, putting it on top of his deck.

I like it! I think it probably wouldn't be too strong even with my suggested version of Cell.


Quote
Escape Artist
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +1 Action.
Each player may reveal a Cell from his hand. If he doesn't, he gains a Cell from the Cell pile, putting it in his hand.

Looks promising.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #106 on: August 24, 2014, 10:05:31 am »
0

Thanks for the feedback on the cards LFN, but the most up to date versions were in the OP (eg contrarian has the clause, oppressor is a completely different card). I was just showing off some art.

I'm not sure what you don't like about Archer's attack. It's a spy that's guaranteed to delay a good card from the shuffle in the early game, while late game it's more like fortune teller. It's no Pillage but it's definitely going to hurt a little, and it's slightly different from the other "spy" attacks. Meanwhile the draw is either "+4 cards" or "+3 cards, and one of them is good", with a little bit of cycling (although that aspect is a "wash").  It could also be a "chancellor, then draw", but that's all the more reason to make it cost $6. Compare with Library and Journeyman.

Cell is purpose built for the 3 cards that give it out, which explore some common fan card ideas:
* Escape artist - +2 Cards, discard for actions (being a very mild attack should save it from being too good for 4, not good enough for 5)
* Patrol - A "when gain" Militia
* Oppressor - A "next turn" Militia
Escape artist is equivalent to urchin, while the other 2 are equivalent to militia (there's the card you didn't draw, and you can discard any other card to still have an Action), but there's a bit of versatility.
Your alternative is not a bad idea, but it's not the same card at all.

EDIT: Like I said in an earlier post, the new cards are Conflict (a single), Diggings and Prospector.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 10:12:34 am by NoMoreFun »
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #107 on: August 24, 2014, 10:25:19 am »
0

I'm not feeling prospector. It seems worse than squire, and it costs 4$. If you give it +1$ instead of the +action, it's probably fine, but not exciting. You could try to reuse the "anywhere in your deck" idea on another card though.

The +1 Action is so you can play it, then use another card to draw the silver you just gained (which was the original intention of the "everyone gets a silver" prospector). Also with multiple copies you can get a "stash" effect going to guarantee a strong buy. Prospector/Prospector (it's a $3 card) would be a good opening on boards with powerful but expensive cards - too good?

Contrarian also has the "anywhere in your deck" idea, and Store, while limited to the bottom (so it doesn't steal Haven's thunder), is potentially good for lining up other cards, which would be one of the ideal uses of such a card.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 10:26:50 am by NoMoreFun »
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6897
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9466
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #108 on: August 24, 2014, 11:39:13 am »
+1

EDIT: Like I said in an earlier post, the new cards are Conflict (a single), Diggings and Prospector.

Conflict doesn't look like I'd want to buy it much. It helps others trash so much, even though it probably gives them a Curse too.

Diggings looks good. Worth playtesting as-is.

Prospector looks weak. I think I'd like to see it with +$1 (or as a Treasure worth $1).

And I still think Amigos should have +$2 on-play. It looks really weak right now.
Logged

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1682
  • Respect: +1145
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #109 on: August 24, 2014, 12:55:31 pm »
0

Quote
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one; put it in the location in parentheses
Gain a Copper (in your hand)
Gain a Silver (on top of your deck)
Gain a Gold (on the bottom of your deck)
Each other player may gain a copy of the card you gained this way
I don't think this fits on a card. you have 2vannilla bonus..es...boni?bonis? and another 5 lines, at least two of which will take 2 lines, so you have at least 9 lines and two of them have to use bold font.

@mechanics: i think this card is really weak. all three options are really week. I can't really think of a situation where I'd buy it. I'm also not a friend of cantrips that gain treasures.
Maybe...
Quote
Choose one; put it in the location in parentheses
Gain a Copper (in your hand)
Gain a Silver (on top of your deck)
Gain a Gold (on the bottom of your deck)
Each other player may gain a copy of the card you gained this way. If anyone does, +1 Card, +1 Action.

It makes their choice dynamic and cuts down on lines of text.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #110 on: August 24, 2014, 02:56:17 pm »
0

Quote
Choose one; put it in the location in parentheses
Gain a Copper (in your hand)
Gain a Silver (on top of your deck)
Gain a Gold (on the bottom of your deck)
Each other player may gain a copy of the card you gained this way. If anyone does, +1 Card, +1 Action.

It makes their choice dynamic and cuts down on lines of text.
[/quote]

Good for saving space, but maybe the +1 action shouldn't be negotiable for the same reason tournament's isn't. The number of different possibilities makes my head spin. At any rate I'm not going ahead with that card idea any more since nobody seemed to be that impressed with the general concept.

EDIT: Like I said in an earlier post, the new cards are Conflict (a single), Diggings and Prospector.

Conflict doesn't look like I'd want to buy it much. It helps others trash so much, even though it probably gives them a Curse too.

Diggings looks good. Worth playtesting as-is.

Prospector looks weak. I think I'd like to see it with +$1 (or as a Treasure worth $1).

And I still think Amigos should have +$2 on-play. It looks really weak right now.

I'm sure how good conflict is will reveal itself the moment I get to playtest it. If trashing isn't fun then I'll try something with discarding. It's a hot potato and I'm sure that there's some fun version of the card out there.

Are you thinking about Prospector in isolation? It turns any "+1 Card" into "+$2". Multiple copies seriously enable big purchases, and you don't even have to line them up. It's definitely better than Bureaucrat, though not strictly (so it can cost $3). Making it a "copper" or a cantrip just seems like it's too much of a no brainer to get the card; I'd like to think I'm designing strategically interesting cards.

Amigos would easily be one of the best $3 terminal silvers and the card self synergises too well. An idea I had a while ago was for the card's randomiser to be a special card that made Amigos worth VP (it was called "All for one" when the card was still "Musketeers"). There were several of these, but I then decided that you should just be able to pick out a deck without searching through the randomiser pile to get the additional card (whereas I'm not sure whether Singles would go in the randomiser at all). I could also replace it with a less interesting card with the a similar concept like

Fleet
Action/Duration - $3
+2 Cards
If another player has a Fleet in play, resolve the top Event from the Event deck
At the start of your next turn, +1 Action



« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 02:58:38 pm by NoMoreFun »
Logged

silverspawn

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4026
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • ♦ Twilight ♦
  • Respect: +1769
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #111 on: August 24, 2014, 02:59:43 pm »
0

without having context, I think that works much easier. Like so:

Quote
Choose one: gain A putting it X; or gain B putting it Y; or gain C putting it Z. Each opponent gains a copy of the card you gained.

you don't need the () thing, it's implicitly clear that the X Y Z doesn't apply to him.

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #112 on: August 24, 2014, 03:00:09 pm »
0

The other thing is I like to run the gamut of vanilla bonuses. The official sets do a similar thing (Dark ages has a +$ for all numbers from 1-5).

Edit: I was referring to top text, but then I remembered there's no +$3 (I was thinking of count). Still, there's quite a lot of variety.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 03:05:08 pm by NoMoreFun »
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #113 on: September 05, 2014, 08:39:06 am »
0

Amigos has been replaced with:

Fleet
Action/Duration - $4
+2 Cards
+$1 if any other player has a Duration in play
At the start of your next turn, +1 Action
---
While this card is in play, when you would gain a cheaper card, you may, instead, gain a Fleet.

Beauty is now $3

Also Dock is no longer a "next turn" Apprentice, and is instead a far simpler card (because the Caravan+Royal Seal effect is good enough without the spoofs). It's now:
Dock
Action - $5
+1 Card
+1 Buy
+$1
---
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may set it aside on the Dock mat. Put all cards on the Dock mat in your hand at the start of your turn.

Is it too similar to Wharf?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 08:44:29 am by NoMoreFun »
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #114 on: September 05, 2014, 11:30:42 am »
0

Beauty is back to $4. The cost distribution is a bit out of whack but I'm ok with Fleet being a $4 card with a feature that makes it more like a $3 card (easier to get multiple copies). It just seemed way too good for $3.
Logged

silverspawn

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4026
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • ♦ Twilight ♦
  • Respect: +1769
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #115 on: September 05, 2014, 12:09:02 pm »
0

Quote
While this card is in play, when you would gain a cheaper card, you may, instead, gain a Fleet.

is there a reason for the "cheaper"?

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #116 on: September 05, 2014, 12:56:42 pm »
0

Quote
While this card is in play, when you would gain a cheaper card, you may, instead, gain a Fleet.

is there a reason for the "cheaper"?

I guess not.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #117 on: September 11, 2014, 01:27:50 pm »
0

Diggings has been replaced by Outskirts

Outskirts
Action/Reaction - $3
+2 Actions
+1 Card
---
When another player plays an Outskirts, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, +1 Card and put this on top of your deck.


I wanted to design another cantrip village that could cost $3. In games with both this and Village, you might want to avoid triggering the reaction in your opponents, so you may go for the regular village. Otherwise it's a nice form of mild deck control. It seems a bit dull; would like to hear anyone else's thoughts on the "challenge" of making a $3 cantrip village (other than the one we all know).
Logged

silverspawn

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4026
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • ♦ Twilight ♦
  • Respect: +1769
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #118 on: September 15, 2014, 05:33:49 pm »
0

it should be +1 card, +2 actions, not the other way. cards come before actions.

I don't think this card works though. if you have two of them in your hand, and your opponent plays one, you can draw your whole deck like so:

  • reveal O1
  • +1 card and put O1 on top of your deck
  • reveal O2
  • +1 card and put O2 on top of your deck
  • continue with #1


Quote
would like to hear anyone else's thoughts on the "challenge" of making a $3 cantrip village
you probably can't make a good "cantrip" village, because then you only have vanilla boni, and your card needs to have +2 actions or +3 actions. you're extremely limited.

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1738
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #119 on: September 15, 2014, 06:19:48 pm »
0

It can't draw your whole deck, because once you have drawn the first card of your deck, you are just alternately drawing O1 and O2, and getting nowhere.

silverspawn

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4026
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • ♦ Twilight ♦
  • Respect: +1769
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2014, 06:31:43 pm »
0

It can't draw your whole deck, because once you have drawn the first card of your deck, you are just alternately drawing O1 and O2, and getting nowhere.
wait... it doesn't increase your handsize? you're right, it doesn't. well, then it can't draw your deck, yea. but then it's also not very useful period. For some reason I thought this would increase your handsize. I don't know why I thought that.

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #121 on: September 24, 2014, 10:08:35 am »
0

If you like walls of text, the post under the OP is a "secret history" of my thought process behind the cards.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #122 on: April 05, 2015, 11:17:33 pm »
0

Looks like it's back to the drawing board.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
  • Respect: +934
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #123 on: April 08, 2015, 09:11:56 pm »
0

I'll have to wait until Adventures comes out but it seems like none of the "Events" are the same as any of my "Singles". So many clever ideas. I'm less enthusiastic about my "Singles" that aren't entirely a when buy effect. Maybe they'll stay but the novelty is gone.

My "Events" can be renamed "News".

There's a lot of cards I'm not particularly enthusiastic about any more, so much to refine, but the "Cards that do the same thing to every player" theme seems good. To be continued.

Rethinking "Cargo":

Degree
Treasure - $4
Worth $0
When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain an Action card costing exactly $1 more than it.

It's not worth anything, and it trashes all your money, and eventually you'll trash it to be something else.
Logged

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1087
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +842
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #124 on: April 09, 2015, 01:01:28 am »
0

Rethinking "Cargo":

Degree
Treasure - $4
Worth $0
When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain an Action card costing exactly $1 more than it.

It's not worth anything, and it trashes all your money, and eventually you'll trash it to be something else.
strictly better than feast (which imo isn't really a bad thing for a card like feast, but generally frowned on for a card of the same cost)
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6  All
 

Page created in 0.153 seconds with 23 queries.