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Author Topic: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread  (Read 26166 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2014, 04:26:01 pm »
0

Any suggestions for names are much appreciated. Good names are things you associate with turbulent times when it seems like far too many things are going on and you're never sure what's going to happen next. Names like "Opportunist" seem right, but others like Rear Admiral are relics.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2014, 07:16:49 am »
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Patrol is back to being bottom deck, as I just remembered that being top deck messed with the opening too much and had ridiculous FTA.

Because of this, Oppressor is back to being top deck. I've decided to make it terminal, and its attack is combined with a bottom deck bureaucrat. It's meant to be an attack that very decisively slows you down, but otherwise isn't particularly harmful. Alternatively, it can be interpreted as a triple-urchin (discard one this turn, one next turn, one much later). Meanwhile, while they've been slowed down by 2 cards, you draw 2 cards.

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2014, 12:31:08 pm »
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This is meant to be a general sort of ideas thread, so a few I've had

Mirror
Treasure - $4
Worth $1
---
While this is in play, when you gain a Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.

(It's a horrible treasure early game and it slows you down as much as other players unless cards like Great Hall are in the Kingdom).

Smelter
Action - $2
Reveal a card from your hand
If it's a(n):
Action: Gain a copy of it
Treasure: +$3
Victory Card: +3 Cards
Put the revealed card on top of your deck.

(Terminal silver that slows you down, inflexible Courtyard, or a gainer that either sacrifices the play  of a non terminal or makes your terminal clash problems even worse)

Warden
Action - $4
+$1
Each other player may reveal a Curse from his hand. If nobody does, each other player gains a Curse.
Each player who didn't reveal a Curse draws a card.

Contrarian
Action - $4
Draw 3 cards from the bottom of your deck
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck
---
When you gain this, reverse the turn order (eg play passes to the right if it passed to the left before).

Leveller
Action/Attack - $5
+3 Cards
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Each other player discards the same number of cards, then draws until he has 3 cards in hand.

Pyromaniac
Action - $6
Each player (including you) may put any number of cards from his hand on top of his deck.
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal one costing $3 or more. Put it back, and trash the other revealed cards.

Tracker
Action/Attack - $5
+1 Action
Each other player discards a card, then reveals the top card of his deck and puts it into his hand. +1 card for every $ of the highest cost in coins on a card revealed this way.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 12:32:16 pm by NoMoreFun »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2014, 02:53:24 pm »
+1

Mirror
Treasure - $4
Worth $1
---
While this is in play, when you gain a Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.

(It's a horrible treasure early game and it slows you down as much as other players unless cards like Great Hall are in the Kingdom).

This doesn't look unbalanced, but I worry a bit about it not being fun. In general, I don't think the "hurt everyone including yourself" card concept is going to be popular. Saboteur and Sea Hag get flak for not producing resources, but even they don't hurt you too. Taxman and Followers kinda sorta hurt you, but they help you more. Anyhow, this might be worth testing. It's not nearly as bad as Leveller.


Smelter
Action - $2
Reveal a card from your hand
If it's a(n):
Action: Gain a copy of it
Treasure: +$3
Victory Card: +3 Cards
Put the revealed card on top of your deck.

(Terminal silver that slows you down, inflexible Courtyard, or a gainer that either sacrifices the play  of a non terminal or makes your terminal clash problems even worse)

Wow, you're really selling me on this card! But seriously, I think even though the card is flexible, the three options are probably too weak, even for a $2 card. I'd try a $5 version that gave +$4 and +4 Cards. Maybe beef up the Action-gaining too, but that might not be necessary. Duplicating a non-terminal by putting off playing it for a turn may be enough for that option.


Warden
Action - $4
+$1
Each other player may reveal a Curse from his hand. If nobody does, each other player gains a Curse.
Each player who didn't reveal a Curse draws a card.

Did you mean to word this such that you draw a card (because you didn't reveal a Curse)? Either way, you should clarify that.

Also, the card is…maybe political is the wrong word. It's bound to create grumbling about turn order. "Oh, the person to my right revealed a Curse? I guess that protects us all, so I can choose not to reveal and draw a card."


Contrarian
Action - $4
Draw 3 cards from the bottom of your deck
Put a card from your hand on top of your deck
---
When you gain this, reverse the turn order (eg play passes to the right if it passed to the left before).

I never thought I'd like a card that drew from the bottom of the deck, but somehow the fact that you also put a card on top of your deck piques my interest.

The bottom half is a Bad Idea. For two reasons. First, it means that you have to actually track how many turns each player has taken in case you need the tiebreaker at the end of the game. More importantly, this can potentially lock one or more players out of the game for quite a few turns while two players ping-pong the turn order between them. I don't care that it's an on-gain effect and so must eventually end (barring Graverobber, etc.). It's still really not fun to sit there as the other two players take 10 turns in a row.


Leveller
Action/Attack - $5
+3 Cards
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Each other player discards the same number of cards, then draws until he has 3 cards in hand.

Donald tested an Attack that made each other player discard down to 2 cards then draw one. It mostly just obliterates your turn. Again, it doesn't matter that you also might be hurting yourself in order to pull off this devastating attack. It's just too punishing. Also, see my comments on Mirror.


Pyromaniac
Action - $6
Each player (including you) may put any number of cards from his hand on top of his deck.
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal one costing $3 or more. Put it back, and trash the other revealed cards.

The interaction is…interesting. I wonder how often the other players will take advantage of it.

As for the Action, it seems weak for $6. It's basically an unlimited Chapel that might also trash a few more bad cards (and/or good cards costing $2). Cool with Squire, I guess. I'm just not sure it's different enough from Chapel in practice.


Tracker
Action/Attack - $5
+1 Action
Each other player discards a card, then reveals the top card of his deck and puts it into his hand. +1 card for every $ of the highest cost in coins on a card revealed this way.

Huh, seems neat. I would reword it: "Choose one of them; +1 Card per $ it costs." Maaaaaybe too powerful? I initially read it as "+$1 per $ it costs", which I like better.

EDIT: I just realized that Tracker essentially has the Leveller problem when you're already down to 3 cards in hand. Maybe not a deal breaker.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 05:09:03 pm by LastFootnote »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2014, 12:53:46 am »
+1

Smelter
Action - $2
Reveal a card from your hand
If it's a(n):
Action: Gain a copy of it
Treasure: +$3
Victory Card: +3 Cards
Put the revealed card on top of your deck.

(Terminal silver that slows you down, inflexible Courtyard, or a gainer that either sacrifices the play  of a non terminal or makes your terminal clash problems even worse)

Wow, you're really selling me on this card! But seriously, I think even though the card is flexible, the three options are probably too weak, even for a $2 card. I'd try a $5 version that gave +$4 and +4 Cards. Maybe beef up the Action-gaining too, but that might not be necessary. Duplicating a non-terminal by putting off playing it for a turn may be enough for that option.
This is the only card of these that I really like, and I don't think it's weak at all. Getting a copy of any action card you have (no cost limit) seems very strong. The treasure option would be better used with other treasures than copper. Putting the victory card back on your deck doesn't seem so bad in exchange for +3 cards on a $2 cost card.
It wouldn't be much good in the early game, but it'd be much better after you've trashed your starting junk and have some worthwhile action cards to duplicate.
And of course this card would be insanely good with the hybrid victory cards (especially Nobles).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 12:56:50 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2014, 07:14:51 am »
0

The treasure option would be better used with other treasures than copper.

It's a herbalist without the +buy if used with a Silver, and it's all downhill from there. The main point of the card is the Action cloning, with other viable options in the meantime (given how hard it can be to line up 2 cards).

Mirror is a similar card to Monument - you can get a VP advantage playing it but your deck remains as clogged as everyone else's. I think there's some interesting strategic decisions involved beyond existing cards, but if I do include the card it will be an Action, possibly with sifting and a +buy to encourage taking it's option. Prospector/Philanthropist (still don't really want to get rid of either) seem to do the "everyone gets slowed down" thing well though. It would be a fitting Curser for the set though.

I don't think Leveller's too strong as an attack - it can feel painful but unless you know they've got an amazing hand you might often think "why bother" when you know they're going to get the same number of cards back anyway. My big concern is that it's probably too weak or unremarkable for $5 (it doesn't compare very favourably to Margrave). I think I want more mean looking attacks in the set, but Oppressor (with it's brutal slowdown) seems to fit the bill.

Pyromaniac's difference to Chapel is that it will leave your hand largely intact (if you want), and obliterate bad cards at an astounding rate (though limited by the fact that it costs $6), and still be useful. Also costing $6 means you'll actually have to wait a bit before absolutely nuking your junk, so it's not an immediate decision like Chapel. I only came up with it because I'm unsure about Archer (opening Saboteur doesn't seem to be too good and this is milder, but on the other hand it's helping you quite a bit), and think the "Sage" effect is ripe for good ideas. Archer's probably better than Pyromaniac though.

Thanks for commenting LastFootnote but I'd prefer to hear your thoughts on the $5 cards I have listed.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2014, 09:31:33 am »
+1

I don't think Leveller's too strong as an attack - it can feel painful but unless you know they've got an amazing hand you might often think "why bother" when you know they're going to get the same number of cards back anyway. My big concern is that it's probably too weak or unremarkable for $5 (it doesn't compare very favourably to Margrave). I think I want more mean looking attacks in the set, but Oppressor (with it's brutal slowdown) seems to fit the bill.

You are severely underestimating this kind of attack. All you're considering is the number of cards each player has left in his hand, but that is not the be-all and end-all of discarding attacks. For example, Minion's Attack (on average) hurts significantly while Urchin often doesn't hurt at all. This is because having a hand of 4 random cards is way worse than having the 4 best cards out of 5 random cards. Likewise, a hand of best-3-out-of-5 cards after being hit with Militia is still vastly superior to the 3 random cards you get in an Outpost turn.

Anyhow, when you discard down to 3 cards in hand, you can still have some sort of plan for your turn. If you discard down to 2 or fewer and then draw random cards back to 3, your turn is often just forfeit.

You seem to have this general tendency towards attacks that are super-devastating and trying to balance that by having a weak or even harmful effect for the attacker. But the published Attack cards have been moving in the opposite direction for while now. Compare Rogue or Soothsayer to any attack in Intrigue. Most players just don't like ultra-devastating attacks because they aren't fun. And although your username makes me feel silly when I point this out, it should still be a consideration when you design cards.

Thanks for commenting LastFootnote but I'd prefer to hear your thoughts on the $5 cards I have listed.

I will try to make time for that today.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2014, 10:25:58 am »
0

Point taken RE minion and leveller. Thinking about it it's somewhere between Urchin (discard your worst card) and Pillage (discard your best card), with the added insult of ruining set ups.

Knights are a pretty brutal attack IMO but you have a point.

I don't think any of the attacks in the set are at all harsh though:
Oppressor (changed since you looked at it) can slow down opponents as much as ghost ship but the effect on your current
turn isn't much - and that's meant to be the "nastiest" attack in the set. You need to play one every shuffle to have the effect of giving out a single curse, and the attack doesn't stack well (although it may very well do so in engines as victory cards stack up on the bottom - I may add a handsize clause)
Beauty is mostly harmless, although it hits sifters (other than Beauty itself) hard.
Enchanter is on a similar level to other Cursers that takes a bit longer to get going and is guaranteed to have a response (changing the enchanted card), and at most works once per turn.
Patrol is limited by shuffle speeds (also I got rid of the chancellor effect because of openings - bottomdecking is still as good as topdecking if you're keeping track of your deck).
Rear Admiral is Urchin with a bit of a slowdown effect.
Escape Artist hurts less than Urchin. Archer may be frustrating (and possibly too good for its non attack effect - may tone it down to +2 cards), but nobody really considered that part of Saboteur's attack was it's discard, and it helps with cycling .
Need to playtest Prospector's copper. Philanthropist's copper is a complete wash.

Also noticing a big "slow down" thread in the set. Hopefully interesting effects like events will counter that.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2014, 04:24:26 pm »
+1

Cargo
Treasure - $5
Worth $1
When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

Seems cool to me. It is of course cute that you can trade it in for a Gold. Nice card.

Conqueror
Action - $5
Gain 2 Cards with a total cost of up to $7.
Each player (including you) looks through his discard pile and either trashes a card from it or puts a card from it on top of his deck.

So after a single Highway, this becomes "Gain a Province", since you can gain a Copper as well and then trash it from your discard pile. Sorry, it's "Gain a Province and each other player may trash or topdeck a card from his discard pile".

I feel like "Gain X cards with a total cost of up to $X" is novel enough without the added interaction effect. As discussed earlier, I would suggest that the gained cards be topdecked in order to incentivize gaining Treasures and Actions instead of Victory cards. Otherwise it's too easy/tempting to use a bunch of these to just blitz cheap VP and Coppers.

Escape Artist
Action - $5
+2 Cards
Each player may reveal a Cell from his hand. If he doesn’t, he gains a Cell from the Cell pile, putting it in his hand.
You may play a Cell from your hand.

In general I am not super jazzed about Attacks that are obvious counters to themselves. But I like the card thematically and you obviously don't need your own Escape Artists to deal with Cells. So I'm optimistic about this card. Worst case, you can get rid of the last line, perhaps replacing it with a different bonus.

Honestly, I think this card could cost $4 as written. Cells aren't as bad as Curses, the Cell goes into your hand, and for that reason the attack doesn't stack. So, yeah. I'd try it at $4. That way it's also easier for other players to buy their own Escape Artists if they want to fight the Cells they're getting more effectively.

Pariah
Action - $5
Gain a card costing up to $6. Each other player may gain a Curse, putting it on top of his deck. If he did, he also gains a copy of the card you gained.

This combines two mechanics that have proven unpopular in Donald's playtesting: gaining a Curse for a strong benefit and potentially giving your opponents a strong benefit. Perhaps two wrongs make a right here! I definitely think it's worth playtesting as-is.

Retreat
Action - $5
+1 Buy
Trash a card form your hand. Place a number of cards equal to its cost in coins from the top to your deck face down on the Retreat mat.
---
While this is in play, when you gain a card, set it aside on the Retreat mat. You may look at the cards on the retreat mat at any time. Put all cards on the Retreat mat in your hand at the start of your turn.

Reminds me a bit of Floodgate, though it's obviously quite different. I have a very hard time gauging the power of this card. It's pretty exotic. Seems interesting, though. I had conceived of a similar card that set aside a card from your deck for each card you bought, putting them into your hand at the start of your next turn. I was afraid it would be ridiculous when stacked. Your idea of putting the gained cards themselves into your next hand neatly solves that. Bravo!

Again, no idea if this is balanced. I'd be tempted to just try the underlined portion with a simpler top (keeping the +1 Buy, of course).

Town Crier
Action - $5
+$3
+1 Buy
Resolve the top Event from the Event deck

Without thinking about the specific events too much, this seems fine. Resolving an event is an easy way to spice up an otherwise dull card.

Whittler:
Action - $5
You may do this up to three times:
Reveal an action card from your hand. Play it, then trash it. Gain a card costing less than the trashed card, putting it in your hand.

Cool. This has changed quite a bit, right? I like the current version.


Either I'm in a good mood today, or your cards are getting better, or both. Keep up the good work!
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #84 on: March 12, 2014, 10:25:55 pm »
0

Quote
Honestly, I think this card could cost $4 as written. Cells aren't as bad as Curses, the Cell goes into your hand, and for that reason the attack doesn't stack. So, yeah. I'd try it at $4. That way it's also easier for other players to buy their own Escape Artists if they want to fight the Cells they're getting more effectively.

It's strictly better than the often proposed "+2 cards, discard for actions", which is too good for $4, not good enough for $5. That's what the card's meant to be - the Cell thing adds an "urchin" attack (it's actually even weaker) to give it the slight boost into $5 territory. I should perhaps put (including you) in the card text to make it clearer.

I really want to keep the interaction for Conqueror. The enormous versatility is the point of the card. I would rather it couldn't gain provinces (and may even specify "no victory cards"), but that's the problem with simplicity.

Thanks for all the feedback. Oppressor ($4) has completely changed since you last saw it, and there's also Archer (which I sometimes put down to $5). I want the "non-singles" to be a functional set so you've given me a lot to go on.

Hope my other cards weren't putting you in a bad mood :/
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 10:34:16 pm by NoMoreFun »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2014, 10:42:52 pm »
+1

Quote
Honestly, I think this card could cost $4 as written. Cells aren't as bad as Curses, the Cell goes into your hand, and for that reason the attack doesn't stack. So, yeah. I'd try it at $4. That way it's also easier for other players to buy their own Escape Artists if they want to fight the Cells they're getting more effectively.

It's strictly better than the often proposed "+2 cards, discard for actions", which is too good for $4, not good enough for $5. That's what the card's meant to be - the Cell thing adds an "urchin" attack (it's actually even weaker) to give it the slight boost into $5 territory. I should perhaps put (including you) in the card text to make it clearer.

Ah, yes. I missed that it didn't say "each other player". Sorry about that. $5 it is.

I really want to keep the interaction for Conqueror. The enormous versatility is the point of the card. I would rather it couldn't gain provinces (and may even specify "no victory cards"), but that's the problem with simplicity.

Thanks for all the feedback. Oppressor ($4) has completely changed since you last saw it, and there's also Archer (which I sometimes put down to $5). I want the "non-singles" to be a functional set so you've given me a lot to go on.

Hope my other cards weren't putting you in a bad mood :/

They weren't, no worries. Sometimes I feel bad when I am super critical about a bunch of someone's cards. But I just meant that I'm more likely to be overly critical when I'm in a bad mood. Apologies!

I will try to reassess Oppressor and Archer sometime soon!
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #86 on: March 18, 2014, 01:06:28 am »
0

Nobody seemed to be too excited about pure reactions and when reveal effects, so I'm phasing them out. I still want to make "Conflict" work as some kind of "hot potato" card - it's a WIP (as is Ambush - I can't seem to come up with many ideas for Singles). Opportunist is gone, replaced with Blacksmith (Smelter from the earlier post - Blacksmith because of the "iron" thing as well as the +3 Cards option). Beauty no longer has its when reveal effect, and Bargain is a $1 card that forms a logical sequence with Remodel and Expand - however it may be too similar to Cargo and Repair.

Need to balance costs, terminals etc. again. This expansion is far from finished and I like it that way.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #87 on: March 26, 2014, 05:25:00 am »
0

More random ideas:

Annex
Action - $4
Each other player may discard any number of cards from his hand
Draw until you have twice as many cards in hand as any other player

Boutique
Action - $4
+2 Cards
+$1
+1 Buy


Locker
Action/Attack - $4
+2 Cards
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck. He puts the revealed Actions and Treasures on his Locker Mat, and puts the other cards back in any order.
---
Discard all cards on your Locker Mat after you reshuffle.

Pearl (old idea)
Treasure - $5
Worth $2
---
When you discard this from play, put it anywhere in your deck if you have no other Pearls in play.

Evangelist (old idea)
Action - $4
Name a card other than "Province" or "Colony". Gain a copy of that card, putting it into your hand. Reveal your hand and trash all copies of the named card.

Jury (old idea)
Action/Attack - $4
+1 Action
Each other player may reveal a Curse from his hand. If nobody did, each other player gains a Curse, putting it in his hand.
If nobody gained a Curse, +$2.

Missionary
Action/Attack/Single - $4
+2 Cards
Starting with the player to your left, each player trashes any number of cards from his hand. The player who trashes the most cards gains this card, and players who didn't gain this gain a Curse.



« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 06:19:16 pm by NoMoreFun »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #88 on: April 01, 2014, 05:29:41 am »
0

CHANGES

* Rear Admiral has been replaced with Contrarian (it doesn't have the turn changing order thing)
* Prospector has changed and is now most definitely an Attack and now has the type to match
* Revolutionary has been replaced with Annex - in addition if you discard your cards and other players get stingy you get to draw to match them.
* Conflict has been replaced with "Missionary" from the previous post, but keeps the name "Conflict".

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #89 on: April 28, 2014, 12:31:08 am »
+1

I got a chance to playtest Barge and Blacksmith in 2 games, where the board was full random otherwise.

Barge may have been a bit too strong, though Forager was also on the board, which meant that it was an excellent drawer (as a draw to X). I didn't rely on it for trashing but it was a nice effect and the game was faster than usual for both players.

My friend, upon seeing Blacksmith, thought it was overpowered. I explained the comparison to Herbalist and Courtyard, but the card served him very well, although his most common play was to topdeck a gold (a function I explained was much worse than herbalist). He said it was too strong for $2, although he had never purchased it when he only had $2. I used it to gain a Wandering Minstrel, but the fact that I was unable to play it that turn was annoying (I could have instead played the minstrel, then used the "courtyard" function of the card to have a fairly big turn that turn).

Both cards felt very unique and I look forward to playing with them again. However I think both of us have overplayed dominion and quickly wanted to move on to other board games. I don't think that had anything to do with my cards, but there you go.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #90 on: June 15, 2014, 11:52:05 am »
0

Working with Showdown35's photoshop template. I still have a bit to learn; the text moves from its perfect position when I try to edit it. Once I figure it out there'll be a full set of cards in a new thread (or maybe even this one).

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #91 on: June 15, 2014, 12:41:24 pm »
0

Does the victory card get put on your deck before or after the +3 Cards?
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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #92 on: June 15, 2014, 12:50:17 pm »
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Does the victory card get put on your deck before or after the +3 Cards?

After.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #93 on: June 22, 2014, 01:51:32 am »
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I changed Philanthropist to

Diggings:
Action - $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player gains a Silver.

I thought a simpler card would be more suitable, and the "Silver" option of Philanthropist was the most interesting. It didn't look good with just +1 action, so I made it a Village. It is a self sabotaging card, as the Silvers, especially topdecked ones, make it harder to play lots of actions. However, another way of seeing the card is the +2 actions give you 2 chances to make use of the Silver that turn. I like Villages that aren't easily interchangeable with "Village" anyway.


With an extra village added, and "anywhere in your deck" gone because Rear Admiral is now Contrarian, Tavern is now:

Store
Action - $2
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Put a card from your hand anywhere in your deck

The name's for both meanings (Store as in Market, or store as in storage?). I think "anywhere in your deck" is fine on a non terminal, as most of the time you'd either want to topdeck a card for next turn, bottom deck a junk card, or 2nd from top a card for wishing well/herald, and that wouldn't be too hard to figure out. Compare this card to Candlestick Maker or Haven as a power guide.

Revolutionary and Tower have slightly changed. Revolutionary lets you (and everyone else) topdeck a card for safekeeping. Tower trashes the top card of the pile to prevent games going on forever, unless it's a victory card. It has the consequence of making Duchies cost $4 in Hunting Grounds games, but otherwise on trash effects aren't very troublesome.

This will be my last post in this thread - I will make a new thread with card images soon.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 01:54:49 am by NoMoreFun »
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #94 on: June 22, 2014, 07:39:18 am »
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Quote
Diggings:
Action - $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player gains a Silver.

the thing is, if you play 3p, and this is the only village around, everyone gets flooded with silver to a ridiculous degree, and noone will connect any action cards, but everyone will be able to buy provinces.

Quote
Store
Action - $2
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Put a card from your hand anywhere in your deck

seems crazy good to me, but not necessarily game breaking, because it's a support card. i think you underestimate the amount of stuff a good player can do with it. herald is a good call, but not the only abuse.

did you test these?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #95 on: June 22, 2014, 07:09:11 pm »
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Quote
Diggings:
Action - $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player gains a Silver.

the thing is, if you play 3p, and this is the only village around, everyone gets flooded with silver to a ridiculous degree, and noone will connect any action cards, but everyone will be able to buy provinces.


That's why it isn't like any other Village. Maybe I'll get rid of the extra +Action after all. It's meant to be in a similar family to Conspirator, Mystic and Minion. It speeds up the game, but you should be going even faster. I guess it needs a bit more variety.

Final version of "that" card:

Philanthropist:
Action - $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one; put it in the location in parentheses
Gain a Copper (in your hand)
Gain a Silver (on top of your deck)
Gain a Gold (on the bottom of your deck)
Each other player may gain a copy of the card you gained this way

There you go. No attack ambiguity. No resembling existing cards. Yes there's 2 "everyone gets treasure, you get better" cards in the set now (along with prospector), and I think that's fine. One's terminal, the other's non terminal. One's an attack, the other isn't. One card asks the question "how much money do you need now", the other is "where are you in your shuffle relative to other players".

I don't think Store is better than Candlestick Maker. I put +buy on it because it doesn't compare well to Haven and Candlestick Maker without it. It does make Pawn look bad but Pawn can be a cantrip, and this isn't. I'd put it in the "usually not a bad idea to pick up, and can be a key card, but not spammable" category, with Cellar, Squire and maybe Haven.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #96 on: June 22, 2014, 07:25:32 pm »
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Quote from: NoMoreFun
I don't think Store is better than Candlestick Maker. I put +buy on it because it doesn't compare well to Haven and Candlestick Maker without it. It does make Pawn look bad but Pawn can be a cantrip, and this isn't. I'd put it in the "usually not a bad idea to pick up, and can be a key card, but not spammable" category, with Cellar, Squire and maybe Haven.

Quote from: silverspawn
i think you underestimate the amount of stuff a good player can do with it.

you can prepare a double KC-Draw turn even in a deck full of junk, because you can just put everything on the bottom of your deck, or prepare a forge turn in the same way. you can prepare your next turn in an engine. you can load up gold in a slog to afford a colony. you can bottomdeck a silver to afford an early 7$

it's most similar to haven, because you can set aside a card and use it another turn.

cons:
-> the card you set aside will take up a draw on the turn you use it
pros:
-> +buy
-> +$
-> you have a lot more flexibility over when you're going to use the set aside card
-> it's not a duration card

as i said, it seems crazy good.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #97 on: June 22, 2014, 07:32:50 pm »
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Quote
+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose one; put it in the location in parentheses
Gain a Copper (in your hand)
Gain a Silver (on top of your deck)
Gain a Gold (on the bottom of your deck)
Each other player may gain a copy of the card you gained this way
I don't think this fits on a card. you have 2vannilla bonus..es...boni?bonis? and another 5 lines, at least two of which will take 2 lines, so you have at least 9 lines and two of them have to use bold font.

@mechanics: i think this card is really weak. all three options are really week. I can't really think of a situation where I'd buy it. I'm also not a friend of cantrips that gain treasures.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #98 on: June 23, 2014, 03:49:04 am »
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Basically, Philanthropist is
"+1 Card
+1 Action
Choose 1:
+$1, and gain a Copper,
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Silver, put it back and discard the rest,
Next time you reshuffle, put one of your Golds on top of your deck"

I guess none of those are particularly appealing, but they're quite unique and not that weak. I mainly like the symmetry, which is the theme of the set.

I've gotten rid of Store's +buy for now. Nobody had a problem with Rear Admiral which had the same effect, although I suppose that's because everyone got to put a card from their hand anywhere. Indeed the reason why I thought it needed the $ and +buy was because without it the card was like being attacked by a Rear Admiral. In order to make any big setups with Store, you need to have all the cards in the same hand as a Store, and get them all lined up within the same shuffle. The "caravan" effect on Haven is huge, and also the fact that it never takes up space means you have the option of setting aside junk to make the card a harmless cantrip (the reason a card like Pawn could ever compete with the likes of Squire or Candlestick Maker).

Really not sure whether to go with Rear Admiral or Contrarian. Definitely not going to go with a combo of the two effects.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion: Pandemonium - Expansion WIP Thread
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2014, 09:22:09 am »
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Making card art is more time consuming than I expected, even with the photoshop template. I will get there eventually.

In the meantime, commentary is welcome. In particular the following cards are "new":

Conflict
Action/Attack/Single - $3
+2 Cards
Starting with the player to your left, each player (including you) trashes any number of cards from his hand. The player who trashed the most cards first gains this card, and all other players gain a Curse.

Diggings
Action - $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
---
When you gain this card, if it's your action phase, you may play it.

Prospector
Action - $3
+1 Action
Gain a Silver, putting it anywhere in your deck.


Also the two "everyone gains the same treasure" cards that I have talked about endlessly across the forum are now gone.

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