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Author Topic: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?  (Read 11796 times)

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Beyond Awesome

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2013, 04:30:54 pm »
0

Fishing Village
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Watno

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2013, 04:34:18 pm »
0

I keep doing this, and had actually fixed it in an earlier post in this thread :P
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Just a Rube

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2013, 04:54:09 pm »
+2

Can't believe I forgot my favorite card in the base set:

Militia.

No really. When you talk about power cards in the base set, people immediately think of Witch and Chapel, and it's not either one of those two, but it's still a good, solid card.

Having had to teach the game to a bunch of people has really made me appreciate this card; it's simple enough to explain readily, it hurts enough to make you feel it, and it doesn't hurt so much to make you hate the game (in the way that e.g. Torturer does). It's the perfect card to include in a teaching game, but it's also good enough to be useful in an actual, competitive engine. Does it have first player advantage? Sure, but so do most attacks. It's not nearly as bad as Torturer or even Cutpurse in a multiplayer game. Plus it has fun synergies like with Council Room.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 04:55:23 pm by Just a Rube »
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Warrior

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2013, 08:27:35 pm »
0

. Does it have first player advantage? Sure, but so do most attacks.

Militia and other discard attacks generally have second player advantage, as the second player's play of the card is more likely to hit the first player's hand on a later turn (T5 play by 2nd player hits T6 hand of first player), hence usually hitting a hand filled with stronger cards. I think Wandering Winder wrote an article about this somewhere...

Warrior
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 08:28:50 pm by Warrior »
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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2013, 08:33:40 pm »
0

I'm going to chime in with Beggar.  I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I like cards that seem unassumingly weak but can be a life saver or game winner at the right time.  Plus, it's thematically cool, and it interacts with Coppers, which you don't want either.
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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2013, 08:37:09 pm »
+2

3) Swindler: another hated card, but so much fun. Yeah it's swingy, but making you adapt to unexpected cards can be fun.

This. Suddenly every card in the game is important, and you not only have to think about what would be best for you, but what would be worst for you opponent.

Also, Swindler/Peddler is easily my favourite interacion in the game.
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liopoil

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2013, 08:38:45 pm »
+3

Watchtower!!!

I love it. So many awesome uses. Combos with everything.
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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2013, 08:43:58 pm »
0

. Does it have first player advantage? Sure, but so do most attacks.

Militia and other discard attacks generally have second player advantage, as the second player's play of the card is more likely to hit the first player's hand on a later turn (T5 play by 2nd player hits T6 hand of first player), hence usually hitting a hand filled with stronger cards. I think Wandering Winder wrote an article about this somewhere...

Warrior
Though, the first player is more likely to hit the second player's hand on an earlier turn, and early buys are much more important than later buys. And if you hit a hand filled with stronger cards, it doesn't matter because the strong cards are the cards that are going to stay in the hand and what's going to be discarded is junk anyway.
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Warrior

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2013, 09:12:38 pm »
0

. Does it have first player advantage? Sure, but so do most attacks.

Militia and other discard attacks generally have second player advantage, as the second player's play of the card is more likely to hit the first player's hand on a later turn (T5 play by 2nd player hits T6 hand of first player), hence usually hitting a hand filled with stronger cards. I think Wandering Winder wrote an article about this somewhere...

Warrior
Though, the first player is more likely to hit the second player's hand on an earlier turn, and early buys are much more important than later buys. And if you hit a hand filled with stronger cards, it doesn't matter because the strong cards are the cards that are going to stay in the hand and what's going to be discarded is junk anyway.

Well you usually have more junk in early hands than later hands (assuming we are still in the early game).
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SirSlugma

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2013, 01:46:49 am »
0

Menagerie, Fairgrounds, Vineyard: all cards that add a unique mechanic to the game.  Fairgrounds is probably the least interesting of the three, but when it's something you can go for, the choice and challenge of making a deck with 15 (20?) different cards is a cool dynamic to the game.

I will also second Watchtower, which has probably gotten more and more interesting with each expansion.

Also, I enjoy pretty much any trash-for-benefit card, with my favorites being Apprentice and Salvager.  Fortress is always cool when it can be used for neat or unexpected combos.

And I have to include my favorite cards: Scrying Pool and Goons, which create pretty unique and awesome games.  Unless someone gets to 6 early and runs away with the lead!
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2013, 03:33:04 am »
0

3) Swindler: another hated card, but so much fun. Yeah it's swingy, but making you adapt to unexpected cards can be fun.

This. Suddenly every card in the game is important, and you not only have to think about what would be best for you, but what would be worst for you opponent.

Also, Swindler/Peddler is easily my favourite interacion in the game.
I think that I would really, really, really like Swindler, for that reason, except that its main use is just turning Coppers into Curses, and the interesting high-cost swindlings come only a few times per game.  I wonder if you had it targeting a card costing $3 or more (like Saboteur) if it might be more fun?  Not sure how that would compare to the existing Swindler power-wise, probably noticeably weaker, but varying a lot more depending on the board.
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RTT

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2013, 03:39:27 am »
0

that would make the swindler much stronger!

not hitting estates anymore and there are worse things than copper a swindler can hit.
your only 5$ for example or hitting your first gold and give you a fairgrounds or farmland.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2013, 03:57:36 am »
0

that would make the swindler much stronger!

not hitting estates anymore and there are worse things than copper a swindler can hit.
your only 5$ for example or hitting your first gold and give you a fairgrounds or farmland.
That's true that hitting your first $5 is brutal.  Gold into Fairgrounds/Farmland is very board-specific (which is why I mentioned it would vary a lot more depending on the board).  And skipping estates is also important, so overall I think you are right, it's probably a huge buff.  I hadn't put much thought into it when I posted.

What if it targeted non-victory cards costing $2 or more and handed out non-victory cards?  That's getting very specific though.  I just feel like Swindler has so much potential to be an interesting card, but almost never plays out that way.  On a lot of boards it's only interesting when it hits $3's or $4's; $5's you usually just give Duchy (at the beggining; $5's can get interesting late in the game I guess), $2's are almost always estates, except at the very end when they're the obvious $2 kingdom card (by that point in the game it probably doesn't matter though if there are multiple $2's to choose from), $6's can be interesting but often there's no choice, and usually there's not much choice and often it's trivial.  Of course $0's are curses.  Since $5's are generally where you get a lot of big, different, power cards, that's where it should get the most interesting, but you don't usually see the $5 kingdom cards getting swapped around much because they just become Duchies instead.  Such a small percentage of your deck costs $3 or $4 that you don't get to experience the interesting cases all that often, and it's not very often that you actually end up adapting your strategy based on the kingdom cards that got swindled into your deck.

Am I way off on this?  I can't really remember the last time that a Swindler caused me to change my strategy in a different way than any other curser would, but maybe it's just psychological bias since I'm more likely to remember the times it hits Copper than the times it doesn't?
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dondon151

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2013, 04:09:50 am »
+1

Well you usually have more junk in early hands than later hands (assuming we are still in the early game).

This tiny difference is more than offset by the fact that P2 is far more likely to get his first $5+ hand hit than P1 is.
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pst

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2013, 04:29:03 am »
0

Minion is the dominion card I like least by far. It's so annoying amd swingy. You can have your hand of 5 awesome cards replaced by 4 crap cards, and that is the most frustrating thing that can happen.

You can have your hand of 5 crap cards replaced by 4 awesome cards. That is so awesome!
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Warfreak2

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2013, 06:01:08 am »
+2

That doesn't make the game any swingier though!  Your probability of having crap cards replaced by awesome and vice-versa is exactly the same as it is to draw crappy versus awesome cards in your deck anyway.  Minion's actual attack is basically just "discard one at random, and cycle your deck a bit"!  You never get to play the cards you drew, the probability is exactly the same as just having drawn 4 cards instead of 5 and cycling some from the bottom of your deck.

Any swinginess is purely psychological, the cards average out.
I think you have confused "average" and "variance". Swingy means high variance. Obviously the average quality of your cards isn't affected by your opponent's Minion, but your variance is increased substantially, since you now aren't guaranteed to see all of your cards every shuffle.
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Warfreak2

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2013, 06:05:16 am »
+1

Counting House -- I love this card. It's seldom viable, but when there are supporting cards on the board (e.g. Chapel, Chancellor, Worker's Village, Bank); win or lose, having this work is one of the most satisfying plays in all of Dominion.
How does Chapel synergise with Counting House? Chapel wants to get rid of Coppers, Counting House wants more of them.
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Eggplantation

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2013, 07:10:34 am »
+1

Soo many great cards! :D
I do love myself some good Ill Gotten Gains. I really like that it does take some thinking about, but once you understand its power, you have a mini-mind explosion. It is also great that it isn't always a must but, such as when there is trader, or watchtower, or other cursers on the board, so you actually have to think about whether it is a wise strategy in the kingdom or not. That makes for a great card.

These are in no order of preference, but I also agree with the cards City, Tactician, Cultist, and Duke. All awesome cards. Those city stack smacks make for satisfying turns, and as Theory stated on the dominion blog, it is very nicely thematic, which adds a nice little bonus. It is very cool to see that Cultist evolved from a cool card, from Inn, in Donald X's Dominion outtakes (under 'The Early Days' section, +2 cards, you may play another Inn) into an excellent and fun junking attack. Is is great that even when the ruins run out, you are still happy t have them in your deck, with the possibly of crazy card chains!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 07:13:15 am by Eggplantation »
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Warfreak2

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2013, 07:17:25 am »
+1

I most appreciate the Alt-VP cards. When I started playing Dominion, I thought, this is cool, every game is different because it has different cards. Then I thought, wouldn't it be even cooler if even the rules were different in each game, too? It wasn't until a few months later that I realised, Alt-VP cards already do that: they change the win condition. Gardens means you win by having a bigger deck, Fairgrounds means you win by having more different types of cards, Feodum means you win by having more Silvers. &c.
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Davio

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2013, 07:26:03 am »
+1

Counting House -- I love this card. It's seldom viable, but when there are supporting cards on the board (e.g. Chapel, Chancellor, Worker's Village, Bank); win or lose, having this work is one of the most satisfying plays in all of Dominion.
How does Chapel synergise with Counting House? Chapel wants to get rid of Coppers, Counting House wants more of them.
Meant Cellar probably.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2013, 08:05:26 am »
0

King's Court. I'm glad all the crazy "what if there was a throne room that let you play a card 3 times" antics can be explored in a real card instead of in the worst imaginations of the fanbase. I do wish it couldn't play itself though; that seems to overshadow most of the cool things the card can do.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2013, 08:07:29 am »
0

Also I love Scrying Pool for being a card that lets your imagination run wild with all the zany possibilities, and not disappointing, but also not being overpowered.
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Davio

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2013, 08:52:44 am »
+3

Maybe simply Village and its brothers in arms.

The presence of at least one of them changes the possible strategies dramatically.
Every expansion needs its Village (just to keep the ratio for random kingdoms in check) and my current favorite is the faux Village from Guilds: Herald.
There's nothing like playing a Herald like a mini Scrying Pool.
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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2013, 09:54:40 am »
+1

Also I love Scrying Pool for being a card that lets your imagination run wild with all the zany possibilities, and not disappointing, but also not being overpowered.

Scrying Pool isn't overpowered?

It's nearly a must-buy even on action-light boards if there's +Buy, because the attack makes it so strong. In worst case, it's a Spy that discards before drawing instead of after.
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Warfreak2

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Re: What cards do you appreciate the existence of?
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2013, 10:08:46 am »
+2

I don't think Scrying Pool is almost always a must-buy; there are plenty of boards where you just can't produce coin except with Treasures, and a lack of Villages is usually a good reason to ignore Scrying Pools completely, even if there's strong trashing. In the worst case it's a better Spy, OK, but you have to put that Potion in your deck to buy it, and Spy isn't a good card.
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