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Author Topic: IsoDom 2 Final  (Read 55604 times)

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painted_cow

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #150 on: November 30, 2011, 09:22:29 pm »
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I would also wait a bit, maybe get it started in the new year, then you have a good name for it too :D New Years Dominion Tournament :-)
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Rabid

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #151 on: December 04, 2011, 01:53:55 pm »
+1

Califax and I just finished the final. 4 - 3 to me in a very close match.

Game 1 (Missing Log) GM, Vault, Trading post, IGG, Moneylender, Festival, warehouse, cellar, ??, ??

Califax  IGG / Cellar  vs Rabid Moneylender / warehouse (Silver?)     

5/2 vs 4/3 on this board seems really bad, my plan was moneylender < vault < GM + warehouses to cycle the curses. I drowned in curses, not sure if I should have been competing for IGG or maybe tried Trading Post?

Game 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-092553-71e7b9a1.html

Rabid Silver / Black Market   vs   Califax  Silver / Black Market

My plan was to get either trashing or cursing out of the BM to reduce the power of IGG.
T3 I took Governor over trade routes not sure if this was correct.
From then on the plan was haven & governor to enable bank.
IGG + duke might be worth analysing further.

Game 3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-094020-424cc85d.html

Califax  Scheme / Salvager --  vs Rabid Salvager / Silver

Califax got the nice T3 draw of Scheme + Salv + Est, do the same on T4.
My plan was to let Califax start building Conspirators then embargo them, my draws didn't really cooperate, but my plan was probably bad as well. I got out played on this game.

Game 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-094713-bf09d5bf.html

Rabid Steward / Caravan   vs   Califax  S / S into 2 Margraves.

Might be worth simulating this one.
I got the lucky T4 of Stewed + 2E and Califax didn't draw $5 until T5.
Bit of card counting on T7 let me steward for +2 cards and buy gold, rather than use the +2$, speeding up deck cycling slightly.

Game 5
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-100856-1d4eaca5.html

Rabid Remodel / Chapel   vs   Califax  Horse Traders / Chapel

The only win for player 2 in the match.
Really strange game with us both avoiding Torturer + farming village.
I have no idea what the correct play on this board is, I got the lucky remodel gold > Prov + buy prov on T14 for a 4 -2 lead as 2nd player. I believe from chat Califax was $1 short of remodel gold prov, buy prov, buy estate for the win. we then duchy danced for a bit until I drew my gold + remodel again.

Game 6
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-102136-128dcd0b.html

Califax  Trader / Silver into Dukes --  vs Rabid Potion / Silver into fail.

I had some crazy idea of Ghost Ships slowing the Duke rush down.
I was wrong.

Game 7
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-103606-aa41feb8.html

Rabid Farming Village / Silver   vs   Califax  Silver /  Silver

My plan was Forge Peddlers into prov's, with farming village + margrave as the draw engine.
Worked quite well, I wanted to add talisman as well, but couldn't fit it in.
 

Well played Califax, thanks for the enjoyable match.

Looking forward to defending the title in IsoDom 3.  ;)

Rabid
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 02:36:24 pm by Rabid »
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Reyk

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #152 on: December 04, 2011, 01:54:10 pm »
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Congrats to Rabid for winning the tournament after a 4:3 final victory!
I'm sure comments on the games will follow. I have to wait for CR.
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Reyk

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #153 on: December 04, 2011, 02:08:05 pm »
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Califax  IGG --  vs Rabid Moneylender / Silver     

My plan, 4/3 vs 5/2 on this board seems really bad, my plan was vault into GM + warehouses to cycle the curses. I drowned in curses, not sure if I should have been competing for IGG or maybe tried Trading Post?

I didn't save it either. Starting player + 5-2 was probably huge although the choice wasn't easy.

I will go into detail for the other games later. For now I'm totally unhappy with my forge buy in the last game - this could and should have been a Province instead as your double Margrave cycles my deck and their are still chances. I've tried things like Farming Village turn 1 myself and it didn't turn out well for me. Later there was 6$ + 3$ next turn - so decided to give up on Peddlers.
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Reyk

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #154 on: December 04, 2011, 02:11:16 pm »
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Game 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-092553-71e7b9a1.html

Rabid Silver / Black Market   vs   Califax  Silver / Black Market
From then on the plan was haven & governor to enable bank.
IGG + duke might be worth analysing further.

I guess that IGG + Duke is hard to make work because of premature 3pile ending. I didn't plan the quick end well here.
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theory

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #155 on: December 04, 2011, 02:16:37 pm »
0

I got so confused for a second, trying to input this data into the bracket.  "Who is califax? He's not playing Rabid this round ..."
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Reyk

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #156 on: December 04, 2011, 02:42:56 pm »
+1

Game 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-094713-bf09d5bf.html

Rabid Steward / Caravan   vs   Califax  S / S into 2 Margraves.

Might be worth simulating this one.
I got the lucky T4 of Stewed + 2E and Califax didn't draw $5 until T5.
Bit of card counting on T7 let me steward for +2 cards and buy gold, rather than use the +2$, speeding up deck cycling slightly.

Yes simulation would be interesting. Starting Silver/Silver and playing the first Silver turn 5 indeed slowed me down a bit.

Game 5
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-100856-1d4eaca5.html

Rabid Remodel / Chapel   vs   Califax  Horse Traders / Chapel

The only win for player 2 in the match.
Really strange game with us both avoiding Torturer + farming village.
I have no idea what the correct play on this board is, I got the lucky remodel gold > Prov + buy prov on T14 for a 4 -2 lead as 2nd player. I believe from chat Califax was $1 short of remodel gold prov, buy prov, buy estate for the win. we then duchy danced for a bit until I drew my gold + remodel again.

This one I have to study closer ;-) And I don't have an idea how to play it either ...
Probably some misplay somewhere. At turn 15 after your double Province I was 1$ short for Province(via Remodel), Province, Estate win. But the double Province definitely put pressure on me as an equal score wouldn't have helped.

Game 6
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-102136-128dcd0b.html

Califax  Trader / Silver into Dukes --  vs Rabid Potion / Silver into fail.

I had some crazy idea of Ghost Ships slowing the Duke rush down.
I was wrong.

Ghost Ship is annoying although Haven/Trader help a bit. The real problem imho is Alchemists without +buy.
For game 7 see above.

Thx again for the match and thx to Mean Mr. Mustard for not only confusing theory ;-) but organizing a fun tournament!



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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #157 on: December 04, 2011, 06:56:29 pm »
0

Nice work, Rabid.
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Jake <a href=http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201203/17/game-20120317-030206-6456f97c.html>opening: opening: Silver / Jack of All Trades</a>
<b>IsoDom1 Winner:  shark_bait
IsoDom2 Winner: Rabid
Isodom3 Winner: Fabian</b>
Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalie ar Atanatári, Utúlie'n auré!

painted_cow

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #158 on: December 04, 2011, 07:00:32 pm »
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Congratulations to Rabid!  And good work nonetheless Reyk, getting second is good too.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: IsoDom 2 Final
« Reply #159 on: December 04, 2011, 11:09:05 pm »
+2

Califax and I just finished the final. 4 - 3 to me in a very close match.

Game 1 (Missing Log) GM, Vault, Trading post, IGG, Moneylender, Festival, warehouse, cellar, ??, ??

Califax  IGG / Cellar  vs Rabid Moneylender / warehouse (Silver?)     

5/2 vs 4/3 on this board seems really bad, my plan was moneylender < vault < GM + warehouses to cycle the curses. I drowned in curses, not sure if I should have been competing for IGG or maybe tried Trading Post?
It's hard for me to think that can compete with the IGG rush. Problem is, once you warehouse, Vault-> GM requires you to get a silver. Okay, not impossible, but it's going to be a bit tough to get that engine going with the curses flying in. I would have definitely ran for the IGGs, probably with some warehouse support. Probably opened Warehouse/silver and gotten crushed against 5/2 open anyway.

Quote
Game 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-092553-71e7b9a1.html

Rabid Silver / Black Market   vs   Califax  Silver / Black Market

My plan was to get either trashing or cursing out of the BM to reduce the power of IGG.
T3 I took Governor over trade routes not sure if this was correct.
From then on the plan was haven & governor to enable bank.
IGG + duke might be worth analysing further.
This screams IGG to me! Can't see what was in the BM other than what you guys pulled, but I don't see a reason to grab one... 'cept that there's no real reason not to either - not like there's going to be any other terminals if you don't pull anything out of the BM deck. But I'd go IGG with great Duke and Silk road support to beat out any alternative strategy. Seems pretty darn strong. Heck, you've even got bank if you want, which is also good with IGG.

Quote
Game 3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-094020-424cc85d.html

Califax  Scheme / Salvager --  vs Rabid Salvager / Silver

Califax got the nice T3 draw of Scheme + Salv + Est, do the same on T4.
My plan was to let Califax start building Conspirators then embargo them, my draws didn't really cooperate, but my plan was probably bad as well. I got out played on this game.
I'd probably go monument scheme, heading for conspirators on remaining 4+ and schemes on remaining 3s. And looking out for 3 piles. You guys may be right about wanting the salvagers though. Embargo... well, it's sort of a high variance card. You've got to draw it at the right time, and you've got to buy it to set up for that, which is often before you want to. It's tough to lock somebody out of something so cheap, unless it's even more important than that, or maybe you open embargo, which is usually not the best idea (they can adapt to whatever you embargo probably at that point) unless maybe you get a nice 5/2. Had a game recently where I embargoed silver on turn 3 or 4. Very fun.

Quote
Game 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-094713-bf09d5bf.html

Rabid Steward / Caravan   vs   Califax  S / S into 2 Margraves.

Might be worth simulating this one.
I got the lucky T4 of Stewed + 2E and Califax didn't draw $5 until T5.
Bit of card counting on T7 let me steward for +2 cards and buy gold, rather than use the +2$, speeding up deck cycling slightly.

That is a huge spell of luck. I'd like to see the sims, 'cause I've got some other ideas here too.

Quote
Game 5
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-100856-1d4eaca5.html

Rabid Remodel / Chapel   vs   Califax  Horse Traders / Chapel

The only win for player 2 in the match.
Really strange game with us both avoiding Torturer + farming village.
I have no idea what the correct play on this board is, I got the lucky remodel gold > Prov + buy prov on T14 for a 4 -2 lead as 2nd player. I believe from chat Califax was $1 short of remodel gold prov, buy prov, buy estate for the win. we then duchy danced for a bit until I drew my gold + remodel again.
You know, I've never really liked remodel/chapel, though I know it's very strong. Just never really gotten the feel for it. HT/Chapel on the other hand, I don't understand at all. A thin chapel deck does not seem like where I'd want to use the Horse Traders effect. But hey, I guess it wasn't that bad?

Quote
Game 6
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-102136-128dcd0b.html

Califax  Trader / Silver into Dukes --  vs Rabid Potion / Silver into fail.

I had some crazy idea of Ghost Ships slowing the Duke rush down.
I was wrong.

I do think that Ghost ship can slow duke down. But you need to be able to spam it every turn. And you need to do that pretty quick. And that's also gonna cost you time. Maybe too much, in the general case. But I really hate alchemist here. There's strongish alternatives on the board, and alchemist is SO slow, especially in province games, especially with no +buy. If you hit 2p, you're toast. If you make your alchemist, you aren't in great shape even then. I also don't think it helped for you to break off from your plan to try and fight him, but it was probably already pretty bad.

Quote

Game 7
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/04/game-20111204-103606-aa41feb8.html

Rabid Farming Village / Silver   vs   Califax  Silver /  Silver

My plan was Forge Peddlers into prov's, with farming village + margrave as the draw engine.
Worked quite well, I wanted to add talisman as well, but couldn't fit it in.
Don't like the forge for Califax here. It's a bit too late to try to do what you're doing - the peddlers will run too fast - and otherwise it does not fit very well with his deck. At that point, I'd have just margrave+moneyed... and probably lost. I'm pretty darn impressed with how fast your plan came into being, only I wonder how lucky you were to scrape up the Margrave that fast. Actually, it probably REALLY helped you here that the village was farming. Nothing else would work so well, though obviously worker's opens up it's own tricks (hamlet too)

Loved the match overall, and I think it was very well played, especially under the pressure of the finals. Looking forward to the next tournament... oh wait, I'm already in it ;)

Reyk

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Re: IsoDom 2 Match-ups Final 4
« Reply #160 on: December 05, 2011, 04:16:15 am »
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Thx for commenting, WW.

Califax and I just finished the final. 4 - 3 to me in a very close match.

Game 1 (Missing Log) GM, Vault, Trading post, IGG, Moneylender, Festival, warehouse, cellar, ??, ??

Califax  IGG / Cellar  vs Rabid Moneylender / warehouse (Silver?)     

5/2 vs 4/3 on this board seems really bad, my plan was moneylender < vault < GM + warehouses to cycle the curses. I drowned in curses, not sure if I should have been competing for IGG or maybe tried Trading Post?
It's hard for me to think that can compete with the IGG rush. Problem is, once you warehouse, Vault-> GM requires you to get a silver. Okay, not impossible, but it's going to be a bit tough to get that engine going with the curses flying in. I would have definitely ran for the IGGs, probably with some warehouse support. Probably opened Warehouse/silver and gotten crushed against 5/2 open anyway.


I aggree and as I wrote, 5-2 is hard to overcome here. Log for game 1:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-091432-a660d2b1.html

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-092553-71e7b9a1.html

This screams IGG to me! Can't see what was in the BM other than what you guys pulled, but I don't see a reason to grab one... 'cept that there's no real reason not to either

Yes, I saw no reason not to buy it as long it is at least equal to Silver. The only reason not to buy it is that Black Market might set up traps ;-) But I think Trade Route is great and Mountebank could break the IGG/Curse rhythm. But it was played too late for this.


Game 4
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-094713-bf09d5bf.html

That is a huge spell of luck. I'd like to see the sims, 'cause I've got some other ideas here too.


Which ones?


Game 5
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-100856-1d4eaca5.html

You know, I've never really liked remodel/chapel, though I know it's very strong. Just never really gotten the feel for it. HT/Chapel on the other hand, I don't understand at all. A thin chapel deck does not seem like where I'd want to use the Horse Traders effect. But hey, I guess it wasn't that bad?

HT was the only plus buy (you will use it on spare Estates early and on Provinces late), but Remodel is kind of plus buy too and probably is better here.

Game 7
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111204-103606-aa41feb8.html

Don't like the forge for Califax here.

For now I'm totally unhappy with my forge buy in the last game - this could and should have been a Province instead as your double Margrave cycles my deck and their are still chances.

Yes, as I wrote :-( I knew immedeately, this was a terrible idea. But I already was unsettled and thought, that things go wrong resp. too well for the Peddlers.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:21:02 am by Reyk »
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Geronimoo

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Re: IsoDom 2 Final
« Reply #161 on: December 05, 2011, 05:11:45 am »
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According to simulations the Steward/Caravan deck gets crushed by Margrave BM (28%-70%). The simulator doesn't play the Steward as well as Rabid (far from it!) as it always trashes Coppers and Estates when it can and doesn't do any deck tracking. However, I don't think the skill factor is enough to make the Steward/Caravan a winner. (Rabid also had first player advantage which counts for a lot!). Oh and the simulator really hates opening Caravan over Silver...
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Anon79

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Re: IsoDom 2 Final
« Reply #162 on: December 05, 2011, 05:43:42 am »
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The simulator doesn't play the Steward as well as Rabid (far from it!)
On turn 10, Rabid declined to play Steward. Not even for +$2...?

Edit: of course, he discarded it to the Margrave. What was I thinking.
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DG

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Re: IsoDom 2 Final
« Reply #163 on: December 05, 2011, 09:31:13 am »
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For the steward vs margrave game, I think Califax had the option to work with the bad draw and take an envoy on turn 4. In any event, I don't think that steward/caravan is such a bad play even if it isn't optimal. As soon as the steward deck is turned into a compact gold deck then keeping 3 from 6 cards is fine and the margrave attack is ineffective
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Mergus

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Re: IsoDom 2 Final
« Reply #164 on: December 07, 2011, 12:33:36 am »
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Congrats Rabid!
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