Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All

Author Topic: Ranking the Expansions  (Read 32030 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Ranking the Expansions
« on: July 06, 2013, 03:06:18 am »
+4

Now that all sets are out, I figured it is time to once more analyze the expansions, and decide which ones we like best. You can use any criteria you choose. With that said, let the games begin!

From what I consider weakest to best.

10. Promos--Not really a set, but these 5 cards are nice to have. Now, if only Goko would actually make it possible to get them.
9. Alchemy--This set makes long games. And, getting $2P on a familiar board is often game over. Also, a lot of people hate Possession, and I think that card turns off casual players which isn't good for the game.
8. Guilds--I like this set, don't get me wrong. I also probably don't have enough experience with it. But, it just seems to add cards to fill up plot holes more than anything else. I do like the cards in the set and the concept of coin tokens, but I feel it adds the least amount of value out of all the expansions.
7. Cornucopia--I love HoP. One of my favorite cards of all time. This set has a lot of amazing cards, but Tournament really brings this set down in my eyes. It is just too swingy of a card.
6. Intrigue--It has some of my favorite cards. But, I feel Torturer chains and Minions are too harsh for the more casual gamer. Me personally, I don't mind those cards. But, as a standalone, I think those two cards should have been exchanged for two lesser attacks, or at least one of them should have been exchanged. It also has Saboteur which a lot of casual players hate as well.
5. Hinterlands--I like a lot of the cards, and I think the set adds a lot of strategy, but it seems to be lacking something that other expansions seem to have.
4. Dark Ages--Despite what Donald X. says, I think this expansion adds the most strategy to the game. It has two of the most powerful cards, Cultist and Rebuild. It also seems to have more dud cards. Graverobber and Rogue rarely shine. Procession requires the right board. There are just too many cards that's usage are limited to speciality boards. I do think this expansion goes all out. I love Shelters. I love Spoils. I like the idea of upgrading into new cards. Lots of cool concepts. However, I think this set is not casual friendly at all. This is the last Dominion expansion I would show to someone getting into the game.
3. Seaside--Durations are awesome. Sadly, this set offers little strategic value. I means, yes, you have Embargo and Ambassador, but is it really that hard to figure out when to buy Wharf and Fishing Village and Sea Hag. By the way, Fishing Village is my second favorite card in the game.
2. Prosperity--I love King's Court. It's my favorite card. I think the treasure theme is overdone. Loan and Royal Seal are kind of boring cards. But, Colonies and other concepts make this what I consider the best expansion.
1. Dominion--Yes, the base game gets the first rank. Now, that I have become much better at this game, I realize BM is usually the best strategy to go with. But, this introduced me to the game and got me hooked. I think this serves as an excellent starting point for most people. It really simplifies things and introduces the concept of Dominion well. I played many base games before moving and on and discovering other expansions. Since this started the whole thing and was a success, I give base Dominion first place.

And, for the record, I am not a casual player, but I did take into consideration how a more casual person may view and experience this game when ranking it. If I were to go from a pure strategic perspective DA would get first place.
Logged

scott_pilgrim

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1102
  • Respect: +2146
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 04:29:55 am »
+3

After ranking them, it looks like my main criteria for ranking them were: how interesting are the decisions that must be made because of the expansion?, and how much does the expansion encourage engines?

My list:

10. Promos - I guess if these count, I put them last because I don't really like any of them.  Black Market is high variance, Walled Village just feels like a $4 vanilla village, Stash can do some cool things but mostly feels like a $5 silver, Envoy seems anti-fun, since you discard your best card, and I don't like Governor.

9. Base - By itself, the base set is pretty much dominated by big money, which is no fun.  There are a few really weak cards (Spy, Thief, Adventurer) that just don't add much, and none of the cards jump out as interesting, or even fun.  Maybe with the exception of Chapel, just because it helps engine-building.

8. Intrigue - The set contains Minion, Courtyard, Swindler, and Saboteur, all of which I hate (Courtyard because it so strongly encourages BM, Minion because it's a single-card strategy, Swindler and Saboteur because of high variance), and I'm not really fond of either of its main themes.  Choice isn't really that interesting because, well, I make choices when I choose what to buy.  And I also make choices when I play cards, in deciding an order to play them in, and things like choosing what to Embargo, what to throne, etc.  Putting explicit choices on cards doesn't really add much to the game.  Dual-types are all right I guess, but none of them do anything outstandingly fun or interesting with that.  They're just normal cards that make me say "hey I get 2 more victory points" at the end of the game.

7. Hinterlands - Overall, the set feels kind of awkward and clunky.  The on-gain effects generally feel to me like I'm buying two completely unrelated cards when I buy a card.  I buy Inn to improve my next few turns by shuffling actions into my deck, and then hey now I've got this "+2 cards, +2 actions, discard two cards" card in my deck.  This isn't really a problem for most people, but to me it just feels inelegant.  Also, it has JoaT, Fool's Gold, and Duchess, none of which I like.

6. Alchemy - This is probably higher than most people will have it.  Sure, it has two of my most hated cards (Familiar and Possession), but it also has a few cards that can be pretty fun - University, Alchemist, Scrying Pool, Vineyard, Golem, Apprentice.  The concept of potion is interesting as well.  I think Alchemy is better when played mixed with only one or two other sets.

5. Prosperity - This is probably lower than most people will have it.  Colonies can be fun and encourage engine-building, but they can also just make it "first player to Platinum wins".  (I used the word "can", I know this doesn't usually happen, and it depends on the board.)  My problem with prosperity is that a lot of the cards have this sort of problem.  Getting a Grand Market makes it so much easier to get more of them, and you can win the split pretty fast because of a good draw.  There's also Mountebank, so that's not fun.  But overall, I like Prosperity, enough to put it in the top half; it has King's Court, Worker's Village, Peddler, Monument.  It really encourages engines, which I like a lot.

4. Guilds - It's hard to rank this one because I haven't played it much, but I really like both themes.  Coin tokens puzzle me (which is a good thing), and unlike with Hinterlands on-gain effects, the overpay effects in Guilds feel connected to the cards they come on.  Soothsayer is by far my favorite junking attack.  Giving a benefit to the other player makes it so interesting.

3. Seaside - Durations are fun.  Wharf and Fishing Village just lead to so many engine possibilities (although Wharf is great for BM as well).  Embargo is interesting, Caravan is fun, Tactician can lead to some very unique strategies that we probably couldn't get anywhere close to without durations.  There are Ghost Ship, Ambassador, and Sea Hag, but really I don't mind any of those too much.  On the other hand, Treasure Map...

2. Cornucopia - Before Dark Ages came out, this was my favorite set.  It also contains my favorite card, Fairgrounds.  I really, really like the diversity theme.  Playing a board in a way that makes use of as many different cards as possible means sometimes you actually want to get that Scout in your deck, or want to spend $6 on Adventurer.  Menagerie is loads of fun (there's just something ridiculously satisfying about drawing a Menagerie hand), and I love all of Fairgrounds, Harvest, Jester, and Horn of Plenty.  I despise Tournament, but I otherwise love this set.

1. Dark Ages - Dark Ages is fantastic.  It has two of my three favorite cards (Rats and Mystic), Procession, Fortress, Poor House, Hunting Grounds.  What's not to love?  Oh yeah, there's Rebuild.  People complain about Rebuild, and I agree that it's insanely strong, but, if anything, that just makes it add more to the game.  A Dominion game with Rebuild in the kingdom feels completely different from a Dominion game without Rebuild in the kingdom, and I think that's a good thing.  I really, really like almost every card in Dark Ages, and when you play a game of DA mixed with only one or two other sets, you'll find an epic combo in almost every game.  Pure DA games are like "which killer combo is faster than the others?"

I'm interested to see other people's rankings, because I get the impression that Prosperity is generally loved and Alchemy generally hated, but I've never really felt that strongly about either of those two sets.
Logged

SCSN

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2227
  • Respect: +7140
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 06:32:58 am »
+3

I'm ranking the expansions solely based on how much I like them.

1. Dark Ages - The greatest expansion ever conceived and the primary reason I've played over 3000 games since iso went down. So many awesome combinations and interesting cards! My favorites are listed here.

2. Alchemy - One of the most creative expansions. I love Apprentice, Scrying Pool, Apothecary, Alchemist, Golem and Possession. While Transmute and Herbalist are silly, Vineyards is possibly my favorite card in the entire game.

3. Cornucopia - I love all the cards. Fairgrounds, Menagerie and Hamlet are particular favorites.

4. Seaside - Duration is a very cool concept that has been implemented well. All sorts of great cards and I just love double-Tactician.

5. Guilds - Some very interesting cards (Candlestick Maker, Stone Mason, Plaza, Herald, Merchant Guild), and I really love the idea of coin tokens and overspending. Unfortunately, I think not even half the potential these mechanics bring has been realized, so even though I like the set alot, I still find it somewhat disappointing.

6. Promos - I love Black Market, the others leave me indifferent.

7. Hinterlands - I hate FG and IGG and love Border Village, Highway, Haggler and Stables. The rest is kinda boring.

8. Prosperity - This has lots of cards I love, but I absolutely detest Colonies. I have no feel for them in terms of how much to build, when to green, etc. That itself wouldn't be a problem if only they offered in return lots of interesting nuances (like, say, Fairgrounds and Vineyards do), but none of that--all they do is needlessly prolong the game. Goons, KC, Worker's Village and Watchtower save this one from being last (and, well, even Colonies aren't as boring as Base...).

9. Intrigue - The only thing intriguing about this set is the baffling mismatch between its contents and its name.

10. Base - If I have trouble getting to sleep, I play a Base-only game. I time-out well before T4.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 06:40:07 am by SheCantSayNo »
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2817
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3349
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 06:41:14 am »
+2

Hm, sounds interesting. I'll rate based on the set of cards as a whole, and not just an average over all the cards alone (exception: Promos) and will exclude cost-size balance (which would penalise small sets)

9: Cornucopia
8: Intrigue
7: Promos
6: Base
5: Dark Ages
4: Hinterlands
3: Prosperity
2: Alchemy
1: Seaside

?: Guilds

And the reasons for them:

9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike. I don't mind a few cards being powerful, that makes the game fun in my opinion, but when half the set are that good, it's not much fun.

8: Intrigue - Has some of the more annoying attacks, and nothing special enough to push it up from here.

7: Promos - Black Market is quirky but fun. Governor is a lot of fun. The other three are forgettable, but hey 2/5 being good is enough to push it up to here.

6: Base - Basic and a few notable cards, but otherwise, not exciting enough compared to all the other expansions. If I were factoring in this having basic cards, it (and Intrigue) would rise up like 3-4 places each.

5: Dark Ages - There's some real gems in this set, but I found a lot of the set to be reasonably forgettable. Not bad, per say, just not that many of the cards really jump to mind when I think of the set. I like the mechanics and stuff, but the rest of the expansions are just better.

4: Hinterlands - Kind of the opposite of Dark Ages. Some very memorable, and cool, cards in this set, but then you also have Ill-Gotten Gains and Jack of All Trades, which I dislike a lot. I like the mechanics and I especially like the attacks in the set, but those two black sheep stop it going higher.

3: Prosperity - Engine expansion whoo! Prosperity games tend to be a lot of fun, and involve building up bigger, better and often more fun decks. Those are good things. Okay, not all of the cards are good for this - there's a lot of kingdom treasures in there, but even a decent number of those are good for engines (Loan, Quarry, sometimes Talisman etc.). Not sure whether to factor in Colony/Platinum but I guess so. I have a love/hate relationship with those. I enjoy them, but they tend to make things a little more swingy, due to just how good Platinum is if you can get one early.

2: Alchemy - Engine expansion whoo! I'd have liked if there were a few more cards with potion costs, but this expansion is generally fun. I don't really get why people dislike it so much, probably because Possession, but that card is fine. Also Familiar I guess, but then you have the majority of the rest of the potion cards either being great for engines, or encouraging engines. And engines are what makes Dominion fun.

1: Seaside - My favourite expansion and it has been for a while. Durations are a lot of fun, and the set itself is very thematic. There's a few cards I dislike, such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag, but they aren't enough to overcome my status quo bias of putting this first love of this expansion.

?: Guilds - Not enough experience with this, unfortunately. I expect it to be above middle, perhaps next to Hinterlands on an unknown side.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 06:42:25 am by Tables »
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3527
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 09:02:45 am »
+14

Quote from: Tables link=topic=8777.msg266194#msg266194
9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike.

Definitely. Followers at $0 is way too cheap. It should be at least $2 or $3.
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7866
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2013, 11:03:02 am »
+1

I was actually thinking about bringing this topic up, but based solely on theme and not the actual mechanics and strategy. I think Dark Ages and Seaside rank highest for cool ideas of theme and consistency.  Squires becomes Knights, Hermits go crazy and become Madmen, Knights fight in a battle and kill each other, Urchin grows up to become a Mercenary, and of course, the functionality of Rats is perfect for the card idea.  Mystic is good too.  Though beyond those two I'm not sure how the others would rank.  Intrigue is pretty good, Alchemy seems alright, Prosperity and Cornucopia are probably lower.  I'm not sure if the base set really counts.

The list by theme may be something like:


9: Promos (no real theme, they're just promos.)

8: Cornucopia (I guess the theme is the Autumn harvest and fair.  It kind of works, but there isn't as much "wow that card does exactly what it conceptually should do" as some others.  Tournament is a neat idea and works as it should.  You win a tournament, you get notoriety.. maybe you're awarded land, or spoils, or you give your favor to the most beautiful princess, etc.  Fortune teller makes some sense.  Fairgrounds do too, I guess.. the more different tents and shows and things you have, the more prosperous your fair is.  But a lot of the other cards feel like the effect is there for the functionality theme.  What does Horse Traders have to do with trading horses?  What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?  Why is there a young witch at the fair.. and why can you Remake things there?  Why is the Jester giving out copies of stuff?)

7: Guilds (Mostly good, though sometimes it kind of feels like the functionality is put on the card for the sake of the functionality instead of what makes most sense for the card name.  We had a big discussion on if Butcher really made sense in what he's doing. Why does Candlestick maker give a buy and a coin token?  Why does Baker give a coin token?  Maybe it's because they trade their goods.  Why does Advisor give you bad advice?  Herald is great, though.  "Hey, this guy is coming whether you like it or not".  And stonemason and doctor make sense.)

6: Prosperity (The theme is wealth and everything bigger, which I guess makes some sense.  The cards are thematically appropriate in a kingdom that has grown large.  A forge, a bank, a quarry, some hooligans (goons), a grand market, a counting house, a mint, etc.  But overall I don't feel a lot of "wow that card does exactly what the concept should be doing".)

5. Alchemy (Everything seems pretty solid, but some things seem like Guilds where it's more of "this effect has to go somewhere."  Why do alchemists draw cards?  Why do apprentices trash them?  But University, Possession, Golem, Familiar fit pretty will with their functionality)

4: Hinterlands (This seems solid.  Lots of trading and traveling stuff.  Why isn't Scheme in Intrigue? :( )


*. Base (I might include Base here if I counted the general thematic idea of Dominion, which I think is brilliant.  Build a Kingdom.  You start with some land and sources of income (it may be more appropriate to see treasure as the source of that treasure since you don't lose it when you spend it).  You build villages, libraries, laboratories, chapels, moats, workshops, woodcutters, maybe some gardens, and you recruit people to live and work there---moneylenders, chancellors, spies, thieves, maybe an adventurer if you're feeling lucky.  And sometimes you get a witch infestation.  And your kingdom grows and prospers and you acquire more estates, duchies and provinces.)

3. Intrigue (Maybe this is a personal bias, but I think it's pretty cool.  There is a new slew of kingdom appointees (barons, nobles, dukes, scouts, stewards, the coppersmith, maybe the swindler (which I see as someone like Littlefinger)) as well as their darker underground counterparts (torturer, conspirator, saboteur, minion, even a harem).  The functionality is really good too.. Swindler does exactly what it should do, as does Saboteur.  Steward is a useful guy that keeps things ordered and keeps the kingdom functioning.  I like that Harem gives you money and VP. And when a Torturer chain is up and running you do really feel like you're being tortured.  And Masquerade is one of my favorite cards.  The idea is solid.. everyone dances around and things get mixed up, but you never know who you're dancing with until you look under the mask.  And maybe this big ball is just a cover to get some political intrigue done.. invite your opposing kingdoms to the ball only to trick them into leaving with the junk you didn't want).  The only big miss is that Scheme isn't in this set.

2. Seaside (Maybe this is the easiest one to make functionally consistent.  I mean, everything is about the sea.  But everything fits.  Well, maybe Treasury doesn't actually have anything to do, since it seems to be the kingdom's treasury and not some treasure you found buried (like from your treasure map!).  But otherwise, the cutpurse is hanging around the docks ready to nab the coin of anyone arriving from the ship.  The lighthouse watches the tower and protects you from incoming attacks, and the lookout protects your ship as it travels to new and uncharted territories.  The tactician spends some time going over his maps and forming a strategy, but once he does you're in a much more powerful position.  You can make a little outpost on a distant shore; the supplies are limited but you can still build a little bit.  Smugglers work thematically correct, as does Perl Diver, Embargo, Haven.  Ambassador is cool, too.  We sail to a new land; why not gift the natives with some nice copper and estates to show our "good will"?  And of course there are ghost ships, pirate ships and sea hags.  You can even bury your riches on a remote Island so no one can get them. (And, I guess, your estates?  Maybe you bury the deed to the estate.)  Maybe Caravan should be in Hinterlands, but I guess it's here for the duration part.

1. Dark Ages (The reasons I mentioned above.  The Knights concept is cool.  It's like a real battle.. if one kingdom has all the knights he'll trample over the other kingdom's army.  If both kingdoms have knights then the first part of the battle is a knight charge where they all kill each other, and then you're left in the same place as if neither of you had knights in the first place.  Plus, Rats is great; it's function is exactly perfect.  Hermit becoming a Madman if he doesn't go to town and get some interaction with the real world, a Squire becoming a Knight (or diverging from his path and becoming a Marauder), an Urchin growing up on the tough streets and living a life as a Mercenary.  Oh,  yeah, and when your cultist is done doing your dirty work you can sacrifice him to the altar.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 11:12:54 am by Witherweaver »
Logged

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4340
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 11:27:30 am »
+1

I'm not ranking the promos.  I'm cool with all of them except Governor (see the Hinterlands blurb and put it on the list with IGG, Jack and FG).  Black Market's one of my favorite cards.

9. Base - I started playing Dominion with all expansions (Cornucopia had come out) so I didn't realize what playing Base only games was like until that month isotropic was down and I had to play on Board Game Arena.  Wow, it's pretty light on variety to say the least.  Several cards I like, but a lot of them don't do much until you add expansions.  For the record I don't dislike any of the sets as a whole, I just have nitpicks.

8. Hinterlands - This set has FG, Jack and IGG.  I don't dislike any of those cards, but I have to admit all three of them can turn boards in to formulaic games that get very ho-hum once you know how to play them.  I feel like these cards weren't playtested on the same level as a lot of them, and they drag the set down in my estimation.

7. Intrigue - This set has some mean cards in it, which I don't mind but everyone else I play with moans about every single game they come up.  My wife won't even play games with Torturer or Saboteur.  I realize this is possibly a stupid reason to hate on an expansion, but I have to put Intrigue low on the list because of it.  There are a lot of interesting and powerful cards here, but the less drama the better.

6. Guilds - It's new so I may be underestimating Guilds, but I'm left feeling a little underwhelmed.  It's probably because this expansion had to follow Dark Ages, which was enormous and added so much to the game.  Tokens and overpaying are cool, but they are limited to so few cards I can't help wishing this were a large expansion.

5. Dark Ages - I'm probably ranking this lower than most players would.  I like the set, I like the enormous nature of it.  Love shelters, love trashing.  As a relatively good Dominion player, I want to call it my favorite.  However, I've noticed this set is just not a crowd pleaser.  When I play with people IRL, they get confused by the cards or aren't interested in them.  Maybe there's something to that argument.  The expansion drags games out a lot even for me.  Fortunately, Dark Ages games are the slowest Dominion gets in my experience.  I think pushing it any farther would be a very bad thing.  Oh, and there's Rebuild, which has joined the unholy trio alongside Governor and Tournament in "cards I dread seeing"

4. Prosperity - Colonies make the game deeper without overcomplicating it for newer players.  The power cards feel powerful but balanced.  Victory point tokens are a cool addition.  Most of the additions in this set are things I like.   It feels a bit dry compared to my top three, but it's a solid expansion I recommend to everyone who gets the game.

3. Alchemy - I love the love it or hate it set.  Scrying Pool games are interesting, Golem is my wife's favorite card, love Apprentice to death, love people falling for Alchemist traps.  Possession makes for some fun shenanigans IRL.  I have an irrational love for this expansion, I realize.

2. Seaside - Probably the easiest expansion to recommend.  Durations are simple to learn, getting players in the mindset of preparing for next turn helps them improve.  Ambassador is one of the most complex cards in the game, but you'd never know it looking at it.  If I have any complaint it's that Ghost Ship and Sea Hag are pretty mean, but they fit the theme well too.  There's just something fun about having a bunch of orange cards ready to go for next turn.

1. Cornucopia - Hands-down my favorite gameplay theme in the expansions.  Menagerie is a card of beauty, something I almost always go for when it's available.  Horn of Plenty is one of the most satisfying decks to run.  The only card I don't like is Tournament (and I really really don't like it) but in fairness it seems a little less powerful since DA and Guilds came around.  Lots of powerful cards that mix in well with other sets.  Variety is the spice of Dominion anyway, so an expansion based around it just makes sense.
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
  • Respect: +2479
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2013, 12:07:23 pm »
+1

for me, in terms of most fun to play with:

1. Prosperity
2. Dark Ages
3. Guilds
4. Cornucopia
5. Seaside
6. Hinterlands
7. Intrigue
8. Alchemy
9. Base
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 01:12:59 pm »
+1

I'm not sure on what criteria I should rank these cards on. I'll just try to rank them by my favourites, but that's proven to be a challenge as well. I'll mention now that I'm not that much of an pure engine fanatic, and my favourite kinds of decks are ones that merge big money with engine.

10. Promos
9. Hinterlands
8. Prosperity
7. Alchemy
6. Seaside
5. Guilds
4. Base
3. Cornucopia
2. Intrigue
1. Dark Ages

10. Promos: I find most of these cards to be pretty stale, with the exception of Black Market. Funny story, there were a few IRL base only games where we used the blank cards as Black Markets, based solely on my description of the card. I forgot about the detail that it gives +2$ though. Playing as essentially a Ruined Market didn't stop it from being purchased though.

9. Hinterlands: I like the idea of on-gain effects, and you have cards like Haggler and Border Village can really give you a power trip as you gain all those cards. However, I have a hard time immersing myself into the world of Hinterlands. Actually, I really don't understand the world of Hinterlands much at all. I just know what's in there.

8. Prosperity: This really takes Dominion to another level. Overpowered Platinum, nasty Goons, shiny Grand Markets, and the King's Court itself. The cards don't tend to be too fancy, but they're solid. This set has the problem where getting the strong cards before your opponents often results in an unshakeable lead.
 
7. Alchemy: I'd probably put this one rank lower if I played with this set IRL. I imagine things get really slow. This set is full of things that look broken but usually aren't, like Alchemist, Scrying Pool, Golem, University, Apprentice, and Possession. But their cost and slowness brings their power to a fairly balanced level, so that's cool. Apothecary ain't too shabby either.

6. Seaside: This set is very solid in terms of the strength of the cards in it. Pirate Ship, Treasure Map, and Treasury are the only cards that really make me roll my eyes when I see them. One criticism I have to give it is how slow the powerful attackers make the game. games where Sea Hags, Ambassadors, and Ghost Ships duke it out can get dreadful. Luckily, you have cards like Wharf, Lookout, and Tactician that give you a way out.

5. Guilds: The coin tokens are another thing that can give you such a power trip, and many of the cards use it. This expansion does a lot to boost and help optimize the many familiar strategies with the transformation of spending power to coin tokens. The set also adds a few new, coin token specific strategies. The overpay mechanic turned out to be something that isn't too hard to wrap your head around either. Still, I can't help but feel that the set is a bit lacking on its own.

4. Base: Hey, This is what got me into Dominion in the first place. This set has some of the best cards, but also a lot of the worst cards. For such simplicity, the Base set just feels comfortable and familiar. Dominion games would start feeling empty without such classics as the Throne Room, the Militia, the Laboratory, the Witch, and the Chapel.

3. Cornucopia: The variety theme really works for me. I'm not so sure how good Tournament is for the game, but the other cards give you so much to do, and you have cards that reward you for the variety. There's also Hunting Party, which is just the magical card you always wanted in an engine. I do agree that the set has a high concentration of power cards. Things just get crazy in a Cornucopia heavy game.

2. Intrigue: Gosh, I'm starting to realize just how many of my favourite cards are in this set. I'd find myself really missing cards like Wishing Well, Upgrade, Bridge, Minion, Duke, the Dual-VP cards, and even Shanty Town if I had to stop playing Intrigue. Also, my all around favourite Dominion card, Steward, is in this set. It still has the same problem as the base set, where there are Witch Tier cards mixed with Scout Tier cards. There tends to be better synergy amonst the cards in this set, weak though some of them may be.

1. Dark Ages: I remember looking at the Dark Ages previews and thinking that this was going to be the best expansion. This expansion offers so many different strategies to try and so many combos/nombos to discover. The winning strategies are a lot less obvious than usual in Dark Ages. Overall, there's lots of fun to be had with powerful one-shots, Knight wars, Procession card climbs, Altar sacrifices, and more. Shelters are cool too, and help balance some of the power cards like Ambassador, Hunting Party, and most importantly Rebuild. I like how game warping Rebuild is though. It's the largest set, so it has an unfair advantage. The notable negatives of Dark Ages are the casual player unfriendliness, partly due to cards that actively hurt you when used incorrectly (Rats, Procession, Death Cart, Poor House, Wandering Minstrel) as due to cards that are highly situational.
Logged

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 01:31:43 pm »
+4

What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?

I think that Menagerie is one of the most thematic cards in the game.
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2013, 01:36:42 pm »
+4

What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?

I think that Menagerie is one of the most thematic cards in the game.

They've got a picture of a Menagerie right there on the card and everything!
Logged

Archetype

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
  • Suffers from Fancy Play Syndrom
  • Respect: +690
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2013, 01:41:27 pm »
+1

What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?

I think that Menagerie is one of the most thematic cards in the game.
Right behind Wharf!
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7866
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2013, 02:13:13 pm »
+1

What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?

I think that Menagerie is one of the most thematic cards in the game.
Right behind Wharf!

I meant the effect of Menagerie.  I guess a menagerie is better if there are more varied and exotic creatures in it.. I mean no one wants to go see five copies of a house cat.  But why drawing cards?  Maybe it brings people to your kingdom, or something.

Wharf can maybe be justified.  You build a wharf and ships can dock there and bring food, supplies, people, exotic goods, etc.  So you get stuff, hence drawing cards.  And the ships keep coming, so it lasts another turn.  Or something.

Edit: Okay actually, maybe I can see Menagerie.  Like a Courtyard brings bunch of people to it, and that translates to drawing cards.  I guess a Menagerie can do that, too, but only if the menagerie is worth traveling to look at.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 02:20:51 pm by Witherweaver »
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2013, 02:50:59 pm »
+1


5. Guilds: The coin tokens are another thing that can give you such a power trip, and many of the cards use it. This expansion does a lot to boost and help optimize the many familiar strategies with the transformation of spending power to coin tokens. The set also adds a few new, coin token specific strategies. The overpay mechanic turned out to be something that isn't too hard to wrap your head around either. Still, I can't help but feel that the set is a bit lacking on its own.


I agree. I feel after it was known Guilds would be postponed for the base cards, I think they should have tried to make it into a larger set. There seems to be more room for overpaying and coin tokens. Also, Donald X. said he wanted to do another Duration set. More Duration cards would have fit in well because coin tokens are sort of like Durations themselves and affect the next turn. Also, Taxman affects your next turn, so I kind of wish this expansion had more cards to better explore its themes. And, hey, more Duration cards would have been nice.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3413
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2013, 04:03:06 pm »
+1

1. Cornucopia, even though I loathe Tournament, I love Menagerie, HoP and Fairgrounds
2. Prosperity, King's Court makes even the most improbable engines possible.
3. Seaside, Durations are fun!
4. Hinterlands, the first expansion that really took me out of my comfort zone
5. Dark Ages, see Hinterlands, but it was the second
6. Intrigue, it has some cute cards
7. Base, the one that started it all
8. Guilds, yes, this low, mostly because it disappointed me, the mechanics are cute, but it's just too little value for money
9. Alchemy, mostly because of Familiar and Possession and the resolve time of Scrying Pool
10. Promos, meh, they're not really an expension
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2013, 05:33:01 pm »
+1

1. Hinterlands: I much prefer a larger deck with sifting to a huge draw-your-entire-deck-every-turn engine. I'm more of a tactical player (when I'm on the ball), so I appreciate the opportunism of on-gain abilities.
2. Dark Ages: So many cool combos.
3. Guilds: I'm still getting the hang of these cards, but I do love the two mechanics. Maybe in the months to come this'll slide down the list a bit.
4. Intrigue: Mostly I just like how well these cards jive with Hinterlands.
5. Alchemy: Now that I'm playing games with 5 Alchemy cards at a time, I'm really getting into Alchemy again. It's nice to buy Transmute and Philosopher's Stone and have it pay off.
6. Seaside: Maybe I'm just a bit sick of Ambassador games, Sea Hag games, and Ambassador/Sea Hag games. Seaside is still a great set. Well, they all are, really.
7. Prosperity: I've never understood why so many people are enamored with this set in general, and with playing Colony games in particular. I really like the Kingdom Treasure cards, but they take too much of a backseat to the power Actions.
8. Cornucopia: I'm really bad with Cornucopia cards. Like, abysmally bad. Playing Cornucopia games is an exercise in frustration for me.
9. Base Set: Still some great cards here, but they're vanilla by design.
Logged

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3296
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4443
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2013, 07:37:39 pm »
0

5. Alchemy (Everything seems pretty solid, but some things seem like Guilds where it's more of "this effect has to go somewhere."  Why do alchemists draw cards?  Why do apprentices trash them?  But University, Possession, Golem, Familiar fit pretty will with their functionality)

Apprentice is the Sorcerer's Apprentice. Remember how Mickey Mouse trashes a broom, only to end up with multiple brooms. Replace "broom" with "card" and you get what Apprentice does.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4386
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2013, 07:44:55 pm »
0

5. Alchemy (Everything seems pretty solid, but some things seem like Guilds where it's more of "this effect has to go somewhere."  Why do alchemists draw cards?  Why do apprentices trash them?  But University, Possession, Golem, Familiar fit pretty will with their functionality)

Apprentice is the Sorcerer's Apprentice. Remember how Mickey Mouse trashes a broom, only to end up with multiple brooms. Replace "broom" with "card" and you get what Apprentice does.
Apprentice is David Bronstein?

For the four of you who get the reference, thanks.

TrojH

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 169
  • Respect: +191
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2013, 01:29:15 am »
0

Call it a cop-out if you want, but my rankings would be as follows:

Base = Intrigue = Seaside = Alchemy = Prosperity = Cornucopia = Hinterlands = Dark Ages = Guilds = Promos

I think it would be a serious blow to the game if any of these sets were removed. I love them all.
Logged

Dsell

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • He/Him
  • Respect: +932
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2013, 01:37:52 am »
+1

Call it a cop-out if you want, but my rankings would be as follows:

Base = Intrigue = Seaside = Alchemy = Prosperity = Cornucopia = Hinterlands = Dark Ages = Guilds = Promos

I think it would be a serious blow to the game if any of these sets were removed. I love them all.

To be fair, it probably wouldn't be a serious blow if the promos were removed. I like them a lot but would any of us really be saying "Hmmmm, something is missing" if we didn't have them?
Logged
"Quiet you, you'll lynch Dsell when I'm good and ready" - Insomniac


Winner of Forum Survivor Season 2!

StrongRhino

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 468
  • Shuffle iT Username: StrongRhino
  • Respect: +247
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2013, 02:13:01 am »
0

Call it a cop-out if you want, but my rankings would be as follows:

Base = Intrigue = Seaside = Alchemy = Prosperity = Cornucopia = Hinterlands = Dark Ages = Guilds = Promos

I think it would be a serious blow to the game if any of these sets were removed. I love them all.

To be fair, it probably wouldn't be a serious blow if the promos were removed. I like them a lot but would any of us really be saying "Hmmmm, something is missing" if we didn't have them?
Gotta agree with him. I don't have any on Goko, and I don't feel any loss (though that may be because I don't own them or play on iso enough to see them much.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2013
  • Respect: +2131
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2013, 02:36:18 am »
+1

As a Goko freeloader (I'm not going to pay for a service that disconnects 20% of the time and makes me look bad for it), I've been playing a disproportionately high amount of base only games, and it most definitely seems to be the worst set.

Looking at the list of cards, so many names of "bad" cards pop up:

Moat
Chancellor
Woodcutter
Workshop
Bureaucrat
Feast
Spy
Thief
Adventurer

All of those are regularly ridiculed here on the forums, and they make up about 1/3 of the set. Other than Militia, Witch and Chapel, none of the cards really stand out as being excellent. There's also very few "Johnny"/"Timmy" cards. Festival/Library and Throne Room are the only ones that seem to jump out.

In fact, Witch and Chapel just seem to dominate every game they're in. The only cards that can do anything about curses once they enter your deck are Chapel and Remodel (which is pretty bad at it). The best way to stop Witch is to buy a Witch. BM-Witch mirrors aren't necessarily boring or lacking in strategic depth, but they don't seem very much in the spirit of the game (which involves each player carving out their own strategy).

The presence of ANY other set just seems to make every game so much more fun. I enjoy awful terminal only Ghost Ship+Sea Hag kingdoms more than even the most reasonable base set kingdoms.

I'm not sure which order to put the other sets in, but Dark Ages and Seaside would probably come at the top.
Logged

Piemaster

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 260
  • Respect: +170
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2013, 07:19:15 am »
+1

9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike. I don't mind a few cards being powerful, that makes the game fun in my opinion, but when half the set are that good, it's not much fun.

....

1: Seaside - My favourite expansion and it has been for a while. Durations are a lot of fun, and the set itself is very thematic. There's a few cards I dislike, such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag, but they aren't enough to overcome my status quo bias of putting this first love of this expansion.

I find this list curious, because to me Seaside is the expansion which has the most power creep.  Using Qvist's rankings, Seaside has:

- 2 of the top 3 of the $3 cards (Ambassador, Fishing Village)
- The most powerful $4 card (Sea Hag)
- The 3rd best $5 card (Wharf)
- Several other cards such as Lighthouse, Warehouse and Caravan, that are very strong even if they don't get listed in the 'best of the best' category.

Now you could argue over whether Cornucopia has more or less power cards than this, but I'm intrigued that you use it as the sole justification for putting Cornucopia in last place, yet never even mention it while putting Seaside in first.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 07:58:02 am by Piemaster »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11816
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12868
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2013, 10:04:55 am »
0

1: Seaside - I hate Lighthouse, and I'm not really a fan of Smugglers either, but I absolutely love every other card in Seaside. Especially Pearl Diver, Ambassador, Cutpurse and Sea Hag.
2: Guilds - Maybe I'm overrating it because it's new, but there are just many interesting cards in it and I don't particularly dislike any of the cards. And there's Merchant Guild.
3: Dark Ages - There is a number of cards I don't really have a strong opinion on, but all of the cards I have an opinion on, I like. Especially Cultist, Sage and Knights.
4: Intrigue - I used to dislike Intrigue, but it's been really growing on me. I still don't really like any of the Victory cards in it, and the Victory cards are kind of the point, but all the other cards are quite cool. Baron, Bridge and Swindler are the highlights for me.
5: Base - It's difficult to say how much I like the cards after being so familiar with them for so long. I don't know. Fun things are fun and base is base.
6: Hinterlands - Used to be my favorite, but I don't really like Embassy and Fool's Gold. And they are so powerful, too. There's still Ill-Gotten Gains, Border Village, Oracle, Jack of all Trades and other cards that I like a lot, but lately, I've gotten very uncomfortable with Embassy and FG and they both are cards that I often have to buy.
7: Alchemy - I like Potion a lot, but Familiar is the only card in the set that I really like. Apprentice is fine too, but the rest isn't too interesting.
8: Promos - Envoy and Walled Village are nice, but I don't like the rest a lot. And there are only five cards, too.
9: Cornucopia - I like Fortune Teller, but it's often weak so I won't end up buying it very often. Hamlet is cool. Maybe Horse Traders, too, but the others are cards that I'd rather not play with.
10: Base cards
11: Prosperity - Lots of cards that I dislike (including Colony and Platinum), lots of cards that I don't really care about, and King's Court. And King's Court isn't enough to save it. I got Prosperity IRL just for completeness's sake, not going to get it on Goko.

Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2817
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3349
    • View Profile
Re: Ranking the Expansions
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2013, 11:47:17 am »
+1

9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike. I don't mind a few cards being powerful, that makes the game fun in my opinion, but when half the set are that good, it's not much fun.

....

1: Seaside - My favourite expansion and it has been for a while. Durations are a lot of fun, and the set itself is very thematic. There's a few cards I dislike, such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag, but they aren't enough to overcome my status quo bias of putting this first love of this expansion.

I find this list curious, because to me Seaside is the expansion which has the most power creep.  Using Qvist's rankings, Seaside has:

- 2 of the top 3 of the $3 cards (Ambassador, Fishing Village)
- The most powerful $4 card (Sea Hag)
- The 3rd best $5 card (Wharf)
- Several other cards such as Lighthouse, Warehouse and Caravan, that are very strong even if they don't get listed in the 'best of the best' category.

Now you could argue over whether Cornucopia has more or less power cards than this, but I'm intrigued that you use it as the sole justification for putting Cornucopia in last place, yet never even mention it while putting Seaside in first.

You just listed four cards out of 26 that are right at the top, compared to:
Hamlet is the #2 $2 card
Menagerie is around #4-5 on the $3's
Remake, Tournament, Young Witch are the #3-5 $4 cards
Hunting Party is about #4-5 on the $5's

That's 6 cards out of 13 that are right at the top of their price brackets. Almost every expansion has some top level cards, some middling cards, and some low cards. Cornucopia just happens to have way too many top level cards. Even including the other three cards you named, it's 7/26, or barely over a quarter of the cards, in the top quarter of cards. Without that, it's 4/26 in the top 10%, which is a little high, but not really significantly so.

It also helps that cards like Wharf and Ambassador are fun and powerful, while cards like Tournament and Hunting Party are the extremely boring kind of powerful. And I don't know if you've played Hunting Party in real life, let me tell you, the whole digging for cards is not fun.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 11:48:48 am by Tables »
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All
 

Page created in 0.097 seconds with 20 queries.