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Author Topic: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible  (Read 2378 times)

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bitwise

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Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« on: July 05, 2013, 09:02:48 pm »
+1

Some of you may remember a puzzle from the old days: assuming perfect shuffle luck and a kingdom of your choice, empty your entire deck in as few turns as possible. The old puzzle post is here: http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/06/09/dominion-puzzle-2-solution/, and back then, it was possible to do it in 6 turns.

Of course, there are a lot more possibilities now. How few turns can you do it in? I can get x=5, and I think one turn fewer might be possible, since I can find a x turn solution that gets really close.

Some silly side puzzles to go along with this, each of which is a condition that can also be satisfied with an x turn solution (not simultaneously, each is its own puzzle).

1) No cards from Guilds.
2) No cards in the Native Village or Island mat at the end of the game.
3) Gain a Fortress at some point.

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Kirian

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2013, 09:40:43 pm »
0

Five without challenges:


Kingdom includes Chapel, Baker, Doctor, Island
T1: Buy Doctor for $6.  Trash EEE from the top of the deck.  Draw Doctor-CCCC (Deck: CCC)
T2: Play Doctor, trashing CCC. Buy Island.  Draw Doctor-Island-CCC (Deck: C)
T3: Play Doctor, trashing C.  Buy Chapel.  Draw Chapel-Doctor-CCC (Deck: Island)
T4: Play Chapel, trashing Doctor-CCC
T5: Play Island, setting aside with Chapel
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achmed_sender

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 05:41:36 am »
0

The only way to solve 2) and 3) together is including Masq or Ambassador. Am I missing something?
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Powerman

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 09:23:35 am »
+3

Five for challenge 2:


Kingdom includes Chapel, Doctor, Band of Misfits, Chapel, Embargo (using Shelters)
T1: Buy Doctor for $5.  Trash OE H (draw Ne) from the top of the deck.  Draw CCCCC (Deck: Doctor CC Ne)
T2: Buy Band of Misfits.  Draw Doctor-BoM-Ne-CC (Deck: CCCC)
T3: Play Necropolis, Doctor, trashing CCC, BoM as Chapel trashing CC.  Draw BoM-Doctor-Ne-CC
T4: Play BoM as Chapel, trashing Doctor-Ne-CC
T5: Play BoM as Embargo

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bitwise

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 06:49:07 pm »
0

The only way to solve 2) and 3) together is including Masq or Ambassador. Am I missing something?
The conditions 1), 2), 3) are meant to be solved independently, not simultaneously. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2013, 07:04:39 pm »
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The only way to solve 2) and 3) together is including Masq or Ambassador. Am I missing something?

Haven
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 07:23:26 pm »
+3

Challenge 1+2:

Kingdom: Band of Misfits, Mint, Smithy, Chapel, Treasure Map.
Staring Hand CCEEE
Turn 1: Do nothing. Draw CCCCC
Turn 2: Buy BoM. Shuffle. Draw BoM,4xC
Turn 3: Play BoM as Smithy. Draw CCC. Buy Mint. Trash 7 Coppers. Draw 3 Estates. Shuffle. Draw Mint, BoM
Turn 4: Play BoM as Chapel. Trash Mint, 3x Estate.
Turn 5: play BoM as Treasure Map.
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jonts26

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2013, 09:06:52 pm »
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Why does no one want to play BoM as death cart. It's clearly optimal.
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liopoil

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 09:09:41 pm »
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Why does no one want to play BoM as death cart. It's clearly optimal.
FEAST!!

funnily enough, they have the exact same effect in this case.
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bitwise

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 09:14:16 pm »
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Why does no one want to play BoM as death cart. It's clearly optimal.
FEAST!!

funnily enough, they have the exact same effect in this case.
Except you have to gain cards on feast?

Mining Village is clearly where it's at.
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liopoil

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2013, 09:17:54 pm »
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yeah, but you want to gain cards, because you don't have any! you still accomplished the challenge, if but for a brief moment.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2013, 10:31:56 pm »
0

Mining Village is clearly where it's at.
It's too bad this is a solitaire game. Otherwise I'd want to end it by playing Band of Misfits as Sir Martin, and get trashed by an opponent's knight.
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jomini

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2013, 11:51:14 am »
+1

Well I can do all three constraints in 6 Turns:

1. Buy Bom
2. Buy Masq (use Baker coin)
3. Bom (Procession) -> Masq (pass Nec, trash Oge, draw 3 C, gain 1 C; pass Hov, draw 2 C, gain 1 c), gain Fortress) : Buy Mint
4. BomMintFortC -> Bom (Chap) -> Trash all
5. Bom (Masq) -> pass Fort, trash whatever
6. Bom (Tmap/Mv/Dthcrt)


Obviously playing Bom as Island in T5 fulfills challenges 1 & 3 in 5 turns. Likewise, gaining anything else in T3 besides Fortress from the Masq fulfills challenges 1&2 in 5 turns.

I can get a 4 turn solution, but only with a second player:
P1 Opens Bish/Bish
P2 Opens Masq/Bom

T3P1: Bish (P2 trashes Oge & draws C)
T3P2: Bom (Prssn) -> Masq (Pass Nec, gain Oge, trash Oge, draw 3 C; pass Hov, gain Nec, trash Nec, draw 2 C, gain Mining Village): buy six C, buy Mint

T4P1: Bish (P2 trashes C)
T4P2: Mv (trash it) -> Bom (Island: set aside Mint).
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Powerman

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2013, 12:00:05 pm »
+1

Well I can do all three constraints in 6 Turns:

1. Buy Bom
2. Buy Masq (use Baker coin)
3. Bom (Procession) -> Masq (pass Nec, trash Oge, draw 3 C, gain 1 C; pass Hov, draw 2 C, gain 1 c), gain Fortress) : Buy Mint
4. BomMintFortC -> Bom (Chap) -> Trash all
5. Bom (Masq) -> pass Fort, trash whatever
6. Bom (Tmap/Mv/Dthcrt)


How do you use Baker coin, and follow all 3 constraints, if the first constraint is no cards from Guilds?
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2013, 12:09:00 pm »
0

Well I can do all three constraints in 6 Turns:

1. Buy Bom
2. Buy Masq (use Baker coin)
3. Bom (Procession) -> Masq (pass Nec, trash Oge, draw 3 C, gain 1 C; pass Hov, draw 2 C, gain 1 c), gain Fortress) : Buy Mint
4. BomMintFortC -> Bom (Chap) -> Trash all
5. Bom (Masq) -> pass Fort, trash whatever
6. Bom (Tmap/Mv/Dthcrt)


How do you use Baker coin, and follow all 3 constraints, if the first constraint is no cards from Guilds?

Well it's no Guilds cards ever in the deck, just in the supply. But the other problem is that I think we're constrained to a solitaire game, so you can't turn your Shelters/Fort into Coppers.

EDIT: It does work to solve 3 though if you assume the Masq just draws your Coppers and you trash the Shelters later with BoM as Chapel. I guess it also solves them all in 6 if you return the Fort with BoM as Amb instead of Masq.

1. With $5 Buy BoM.
2. With $2 + coin token, Buy Masq. Draw BoM, Masq, 2 Copper, OGE
3. Play BoM as Procession:
   ...Play Masq. Draw 2 Copper, trash OGE (draw Copper).
   ...Play Masq. Draw 2 Copper. Trash nothing.
   ...Trash Masq. Gain Fort.
   Buy Mint. Trash 7 Copper. Draw Nec, Hovel. Shuffle. Draw BoM, Mint, Fort.
4. Play BoM as Chapel. Trash Mint, Nec, Hovel.
5. Play BoM as Island, setting aside with Fort.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 12:20:38 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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jomini

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2013, 02:47:41 pm »
+3

Actually Baker doesn't need to be in the supply, just put him into the Black Market deck. Yeah it is a technicality, but I thought I just couldn't use guilds cards in deck.

I don't think you can manage 4 turns. You need to trash 10 cards and self-annihilate at least 1 in 3 turns. All of the self-annihilating cards can kill at most one more card when they go poof (Island) so this pushes us down to trash 9 cards in 2 turns. Without Doc we need to trash 9 cards in one turn using a card that can self-annihilate. Buying Mint can trash 7, but then you need to have only your self-annihilating card(s) left. This pretty much means you need Bom and you just cannot trash 3 cards and draw up to 7 cards. Masq comes close ... but comes up 1 draw short.

Doc looks promising, you can trash SIX cards in the first two turns ... and then what? You have 3 turns to trash 5 cards ... while acquiring a self annihilating card. As Doc cannot kill cards in hand, he's a dead card once you have 5 or fewer cards. This means that at the end of T3 you need to have all but one card (likely not Doc) and an Island or Bom. Island doesn't trash so you need Bom. If you are getting Bom, Doc can trash at most 3 in T1-T2. Bom/Doc then has to trash net 7 cards on T3. This doesn't work as Mint can only trash 6 net.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Doc looks to be able to trash up to 7 by the end T3 and anything you can buy at 4 cannot trash the other 3 on T3 and self-annihilate on T4.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think 5 turns is going to be the limit for deck self-annihilation and there are several ways to manage it:
Open Bom/Oracle
Bom(Prssn) -> Oracle (draw to 7C), gain Mv, buy Mint
Mv (trash) -> Bom(Chap) -> Trash EEEMint
Bom (self-annihilate)


You can get to T4 with a second player helping my favorite being:
P1 buys Bom P2 Buys Noble Brigand and hits CC

Pq:
Bom(Chap)
Bom(Smithy): Buy Mint
Bom(Island Mint)


Were the other player gives you some extra trashes, draws, or cycling. But I don't see being able to hit T4 solo. The normal tricks to shorten turn count don't apply for self-annihilation as card explosions (like gain everything on T4) mean you need longer to get rid of the cards you just gained.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Trashing your entire deck as quickly as possible
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2017, 03:47:47 pm »
+9

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think 5 turns is going to be the limit for deck self-annihilation and there are several ways to manage it.
Turn 1: Buy Donate.
I win.
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