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Author Topic: Fan Cards on Isotropic?  (Read 8285 times)

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Davio

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Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:33:34 am »
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For those who are wondering what this new "Fan-Created" expansion is on Isotropic, have a look at our Dominion Fan Card Contest topic.

I'd like the discussion of the winning card and its results/strategy to take place in that topic and a general discussion about the inclusion of fan cards on Isotropic can be held here.

Just some quick info:

- The fan created card is called Archivist and is the winning card from our contest. It was designed by rinkworks.
- The fan-created expansion is a fake expansion, designed to hold only that card. It's done this way to make clear to the players that this isn't an offical Dominion card and isn't endorsed by Donald X. or Dominion in any way. Donald X. wanted to make sure players wouldn't get confused, that's why it's being done this way.
- You can enter "Archivist" into the Required Card(s) box and play with it that way
- This fan-created expansion isn't meant to open the flood gates and you shouldn't submit all your fan cards and expansions to either me or Dougz. The chosen card was the winner of a carefully constructed contest and ending up on Isotropic was a surprise for exactly that contest.
- I am uncertain if such a contest will ever be held again. If I do or someone else does, there is no guarantee that the winner will end up on Isotropic too.
- Dougz holds every right to maintain Isotropic in any way that he chooses. If he decides the fan-created category must go, it will.

But for now, we can all have fun with it!
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 07:47:01 am »
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I'm surprised Doug and Donald have agreed to this but their choice is final I guess. I suspect this will open the floodgates of people not on this forum submitting all of their fan cards to Doug to be added. I don't intend to play with any fan-made cards, and if this starts turning up in auto-matches, I'll probably stop playing on Isotropic. I can see this as a nice idea for a surprise for the contest winner, however I don't think it's a good idea in the grand scheme of things.

Just my opinion on the matter.
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Davio

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 07:53:35 am »
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Well, it's just meant as a temporary gimmick instead of a permanent solution.

I'm sure that if it proves to be more annoying than fun that Dougz will remove it, but for now I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's just a game after all!
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guided

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 08:00:19 am »
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TINAS, I think (hope?) that the card can only be accessed on Isotropic by specifically requiring it. Is that what you're saying, Davio?

No surprise rinkworks won the contest. Without meaning to insult anyone else, IMO he's by far the most thoughtful fan card designer around.
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Davio

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 08:05:49 am »
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TINAS, I think (hope?) that the card can only be accessed on Isotropic by specifically requiring it. Is that what you're saying, Davio?
That is what I'm saying.

But as it is now, one person can check the box and if you play veto mode, you can sort of "ninja" the other player, but it could always be vetoed out in that case.

I sent Dougz a PM if it could be changed so all players have to check the box.
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ChaosRed

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 11:16:53 am »
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I love this. I think if it is kept as a limited inclusion (like once a year a contest-winner gets their card up on isotropic), it is just a splendid idea. Once we add a second or third however, I'll start to curl my nose a little. But having a traditional contest each year, where the winner is featured for one year (with last year's card being retired), is a superb way to do this.

I agree with the comment about rinkworks. He's not only a superb designer, he's a superb assessor of other people's cards. The discussion in variants is really useful to me, as a new player, as it generates more discussion about value, card assessment and tactics than just about any other thread I read.

Where the Variants forum can fail, is when new mechanics are introduced (like Hinterlands), because generally Variants are highly-derivative, so they work well to discuss the value of existing mechanics (by combining them, changing them or altering them to promote discussion and variants), but when a unique card like Traders comes along, you aren't as well-versed on the value of the card.

If you haven't yet already, read rink's sticky-post on the Variants forum. It is a guide to designing cards, it's an excellent read and highlights what makes a card great and what doesn't, and a noob, I found I learned a lot by reading it, not just about how to design a card, but how to assess and value all cards, even the real ones.

I think rinkworks deserves this honor. This isn't a seismic change in isotropic, it's a one-time award for a fan, who created a cool card and is pretty dedicated to the community here.  Well done!
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play2draw

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 11:10:25 pm »
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I found I learned a lot by reading it, not just about how to design a card, but how to assess and value all cards, even the real ones.

That's how I feel as well. Looking at the fan-made cards allows one to appreciate Dominion as a system rather than a game.

It should be noted that the release of Hinterlands implies that there are plenty of other tricks in the main game that many of the fan card haven't even considered yet. Indeed, many new fan cards are quite conservative. While Archivist is a good, well-designed card, it's not really changing the game much or pushing the player to approach the game too differently (as it's essentially a hybrid of Minion and Library). I think the Locomotion fan expansion, on the other hand, is a set that demands a very different strategic approach... but even then it doesn't quite approach the impact of Hinterlands.

Should Archivist be on Isotropic? As a one-off gimmick... sure, why not? However, if this were to start a trend where more fan cards are added (which I seriously doubt will occur) then perhaps fan cards should be restricted to its own lobby.
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lympi

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 09:59:51 am »
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I could see fan cards as a way of keeping isotropic around beyond the pending isotropicalypse.

Once there's an commercial online version of Dominion out, Doug has agreed to take isotropic down. But would he consider keeping it up with only fan cards?

Obviously in its new form, isotropic wouldn't be anywhere nearly as popular as it is now and it would cater to a completely different crowd (well, mostly different crowd I'm sure a fair amount of us forum nerds would still check it out once in a while). But just seems like a shame for it to go away entirely, given how awesome it is and how much work has gone into it to make it that awesome for something as silly as "copyright" and "not wanting to get sued by RGG." (Not that RGG would sue.)
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rrenaud

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 11:19:13 am »
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I am personally a giant fan of high quality fan made cards on iso.
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Davio

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2011, 02:09:04 pm »
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I am personally a giant fan of high quality fan made cards on iso.
I am personally a giant fan of people who are enthusiastic about the game and who have found the time and made the effort to take their hobby to the next level, sharing their experiences and hard work with a grateful community.

I am thinking about:
- The creator(s) of Isotropic
- The people from Councilroom
- The people from this site and forums
- The good folks over at BGG
- The simulators
- The fan card designers
And last, but foremost, Donald X. for his cool attitude and involvement all through these last months.

Even though the future of Isotropic is uncertain, we can all stand up and applaud DougZ for his efforts. As a computer programmer myself, I know that writing something like Isotropic is very hard and we have all enjoyed it very much. Without it, we would still be stuck with the illegal version at BSW with a crappy GUI and just a small selection of the cards.

That being said, I doubt whether Isotropic has a future with just fan cards; we have all come to love the regular game and I will certainly play the official version when it comes out. Besides, how can we create a fan-only expansion without touching on the original cards? Any fan-only expansion will probably just be a cheap rip-off from the original game without the original game. I don't know, it would just feel empty, I guess...
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Zaphod

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2011, 09:42:37 pm »
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I just came over here to see if there was a thread about Archivist.  It's a really fun card, especially when you get more than one in your hand at the same time.  It forces you to think a little, to decide which cards to discard.  Nicely done, rinkworks.
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fp

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 08:56:45 am »
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I will politely point out that Agricola (whose online component is ran by my colleague) has an entire interface that allows players to create, submit, rate/comment, and test fan-created cards for use in upcoming, real, authentic expansions.

A link can be found here

http://play-agricola.com/Agricola/Cards/index.php

The resulting release can be found here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/85704/agricola-gamers-deck

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Geronimoo

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2011, 09:53:36 am »
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The Agricola online interface is ... I can't describe it in words... too awful...
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Davio

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Re: Fan Cards on Isotropic?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2011, 12:14:25 pm »
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The Agricola online interface is ... I can't describe it in words... too awful...
Hehe, the link is like a time machine to the internet 10 years ago.

Too bad there aren't any frames or marquee/blink texts.
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