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Author Topic: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout  (Read 1656 times)

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Just a Rube

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Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« on: July 03, 2013, 10:56:38 pm »
+1

Apologies if this has been done before.

People make fun of scout. It takes up a card in your hand, requires $4 and a buy, and maybe lets you grab a few (mostly) useless green cards in your hand.

But what if it were on-gain?

e.g.

Surveyor $4
+$2, +1 Buy
------------
When you gain this, reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. You may put any revealed Victory cards into your hand. Put the other cards on top of your deck in any order.

The top-action doesn't matter (well it does, but not right now).
The key is that this opens up a fewer broader uses:
1) 5/2 openings become potentially 5/5 openings, where one is a Woodcutter (similar to Nomad Camp)
2) Late game while you are greening, you can pull green cards out of your next hand, to keep from stalling (sort of like Mandarin)
3) A bit more shuffle control.

Would something like this be a useful/interesting card?
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Archetype

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Re: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2013, 12:45:00 am »
0

The top part could possibly be Scout itself. So this would be just an improvement and not a new card.

For the idea itself: Yeah it may work, but I'd most likely only buy it in the late game where it may have some use.
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Asper

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Re: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2013, 07:47:41 am »
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I think the card you gave us is okay. Usually i won't buy it for 4$, but then again when i'm greening and can't afford a Duchy, it might just push my next hand enough to buy a Province. Interesting enough, on-buy this is really bad where original Scout shines, at hybrid-victories. And the fact it's terminal keeps me from buying a lot of them.

The fact you named it differently makes it appear you did not intend to replace Scout. I like that. I think instead of replacing cards, fans that don't like them should give a weak card more of what it needs to be good. And to do something for Scout, people needed to make more VP-hybrids. It's where Scout actually becomes worth considering - with only 2 of 200+ cards being VP-hybrids (not counting Island), the chances for a scout-friendly board showing up are really slim.
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RTT

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Re: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2013, 08:33:23 am »
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Quote
with only 2 of 200+ cards being VP-hybrids (not counting Island), the chances for a scout-friendly board showing up are really slim.

dont you count harem as well?

Its 3 right? Harem, Nobles and Great Hall
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ConMan

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Re: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2013, 09:55:17 am »
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The top part could possibly be Scout itself. So this would be just an improvement and not a new card.
Interestingly, a Scout which does the same thing on gain would often be worse in some of the few decks that Scout is halfway decent in now, simply because it will pull all those nice hybrid VPs into your hand during your Buy phase, instead of saving them until next turn. Still, I think it would be an interesting variation to try, as would this one which seems a little disjoint in terms of its components but which I would certainly buy a few of in the right Kingdom.
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Asper

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Re: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2013, 11:22:33 am »
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Quote
with only 2 of 200+ cards being VP-hybrids (not counting Island), the chances for a scout-friendly board showing up are really slim.

dont you count harem as well?

Its 3 right? Harem, Nobles and Great Hall

I counted Harem but forgot Great Hall ;)
Funny enough, i just played a Harem Game 2 days ago, minting them like there was no tomorrow. Scout did a good job there.


The top part could possibly be Scout itself. So this would be just an improvement and not a new card.
Interestingly, a Scout which does the same thing on gain would often be worse in some of the few decks that Scout is halfway decent in now, simply because it will pull all those nice hybrid VPs into your hand during your Buy phase, instead of saving them until next turn.

I wrote that before. Which doesn't change that it's true.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 11:30:36 am by Asper »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2013, 11:31:31 am »
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Here's an outtake from my fan expansion, Enterprise:

Aqueduct
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP.

When you gain this, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck, put the revealed Actions and Treasures back in any order, and discard the rest.

It was fine, but not all that compelling. Mostly it just got bought in the endgame. I replaced it with a card that served a similar purpose but was far more flexible and more likely to be bought throughout the game.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Thought Experiment: On-Gain Scout
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2013, 02:01:57 pm »
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The top part could possibly be Scout itself. So this would be just an improvement and not a new card.
Interestingly, a Scout which does the same thing on gain would often be worse in some of the few decks that Scout is halfway decent in now, simply because it will pull all those nice hybrid VPs into your hand during your Buy phase, instead of saving them until next turn.

I wrote that before. Which doesn't change that it's true.
I actually thought of that! That's why the on-gain wording says "you may."

The hardest thing is coming up with an appropriate top half; as LastFootnote noted, just making it a Victory card is boring, and really only makes it viable late game. I like how it messes up the opening, but no one would buy a dead card as an opening buy, so it has to be an action. At the same time, the late game antics are probably the most useful, so it needs to be something a moneyish deck wouldn't mind having while greening (before the last shuffle, when it doesn't matter what it is). And I want it to cost $4 or less, because that interacts with cards like Ironworks (so you could theoretically get a weaker Wandering Minstrel effect, or set up a Wishing Well, in theory).

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