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Author Topic: What cards are still unique?  (Read 26907 times)

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AJD

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What cards are still unique?
« on: October 27, 2011, 12:20:19 am »
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So okay, all Dominion cards are unique in that none of them are exactly the same as any others. But most of them are made up of more or less the same atoms, as Donald once put it: +cards, +actions, +buy, +$, +VP; discard, trash, reveal, set aside, gain, top-deck, look at; etc. But there are a few cards that do things unlike anything any other card does. Now that Hinterlands is out, several cards that were unique for a long time are no longer unique—Mint is obviously no longer the only card with an on-buy effect; thanks to Inn, Counting House is no longer the only card that allows you to remove cards from your discard pile. But there are new unique features to some of the cards in Hinterlands, and some of the unique features of other cards are still unique:

Ambassador is the only card that can return a card to the Supply.
Coppersmith is the only card that changes the effect of playing another card.
Duchess is the only card that changes the effect of gaining another card.
Embargo is the only card that changes the effect of buying another card.
Inn is the only card that allows you to shuffle your non-empty deck.
Masquerade is the only card that allows cards to be passed between players.
Outpost is the only card that changes how many cards you draw in cleanup.
Pearl Diver is the only card that causes you to interact with a card in your deck other than the top card.
Philosopher's Stone is the only card that allows you to count your discard pile.
Possession is the only card that allows one player to make decisions for another player's turn.
Stash is the only card that allows you to stack the deck while shuffling.
Tunnel is the only card sensitive to when something is being discarded.
Young Witch is the only card that changes the number of Kingdom piles in the game.

Are there any other cards with totally unique properties? Note that even some cards with oddball features, like Grand Market, have atoms that exist in other card properties. (Grand Market and Contraband both have effects that can forbid you from buying something; Grand Market and lots of other cards have effects that are sensitive to what is in play at the moment.) Note that I don't discriminate between what triggers the effects; in the case of Young Witch and Duchess, it's simply their presence in the game. What triggers an effect (on play, on buy, on gain, when in play, when present, etc.) is just another atom.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 12:22:46 am by AJD »
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cayvie

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 12:38:33 am »
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Don't all the cards in Alchemy also change the number of supply piles in the game?
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michaeljb

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 12:50:31 am »
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Duchess is the only card that changes the effect of gaining another card.

Haggler? I can see how Duchess is different since it's based on a specific card, rather than being based on gaining another card in general. I guess Talisman is similar to Haggler (gives you something extra after gaining a card, dependent on costs in some way) and I see how Duchess is different.
Answered my own question just by typing the answer and thinking a little more :P

How about this...
Black Market is the only card which lets a player buy something--or play Treasures--at a time other than the Buy phase.

@cayvie yes, but Kingdom piles are a subset of supply piles, so Alchemy cards don't mess with Young Witch's uniqueness
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AJD

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 01:07:41 am »
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Duchess is the only card that changes the effect of gaining another card.

Haggler? I can see how Duchess is different since it's based on a specific card, rather than being based on gaining another card in general. I guess Talisman is similar to Haggler (gives you something extra after gaining a card, dependent on costs in some way) and I see how Duchess is different.

Right—I mean, Haggler's effect isn't "change the on-gain condition of another card"; it's "gain a card under condition X" (and condition X is "when you buy a card and this is in play", just like Remodel's is "when you play this and trash a card"). Duchess's effect is actually "Card X now has on-gain effect Y" (where X is Duke and Y is "you may gain a Duchess").

How about this...
Black Market is the only card which lets a player buy something--or play Treasures--at a time other than the Buy phase.

Yeah, that's probably sufficiently unique.
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biopower

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 01:48:31 am »
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Smugglers can probably be worded somehow to be unique. "only card explicitly dependent on opponent's last turn", maybe?
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AJD

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 02:06:38 am »
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Smugglers can probably be worded somehow to be unique. "only card explicitly dependent on opponent's last turn", maybe?

I was thinking about that.... Smugglers might get in on those terms, but on the other hand there's a sense in which Possession and Outpost need to keep track of game state from one turn to the next as well. (Possession so that the Possession turn knows that it's a Possession turn, since the Possession card isn't still in play by the time it happens; and Outpost because it needs to know whether there have been two turns in a row already or not.)
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biopower

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 02:35:22 am »
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I was thinking about that.... Smugglers might get in on those terms, but on the other hand there's a sense in which Possession and Outpost need to keep track of game state from one turn to the next as well. (Possession so that the Possession turn knows that it's a Possession turn, since the Possession card isn't still in play by the time it happens; and Outpost because it needs to know whether there have been two turns in a row already or not.)

I considered that too, but I felt like the Possession/Outpost interaction isn't so much dependent on your opponent's last turn as it is your own turn, albeit possessed. After all, Outpost only explicitly talks about your own turn.
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jimjam

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 02:37:15 am »
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Quarry is the only card that changes the relative cost between non-copper/curse cards (single usage) (All actions affect peddler).
Mining Village is the only card that gives you the option of trashing itself when you play it.
Island is the only card that lets you eliminate your entire deck without help from your opponent (Embargo/Mining Village doesn't really help, since how would you get to where you only had that one card)?
Transmute is the only card that can upgrade a copper into itself (without bridges).
Horn of Plenty is the only Treasure that doesn't give you any form of money.
Pawn is the only card that can ALWAYS let you get +1 card and +0 action (I guess atomically that's not that interesting but it's always bugged me that there's no Card with +1 card without a + action)
Cities is the only card that cares about piles emptying.
Tactician is the only duration card that may not do anything on your next turn (Haven)
Duke is the only Green you can get all of without getting any VP (in a 3 player game).(Fairgrounds, Vineyard. Fail.)
Curse is the only card lowering your VP (even in the corner case of gardens, it in itself lowers your VP).
Fool's Gold is the only card sensitive to when your opponent gains a card (Embargo doesn't count, since it's the embargo token that matters).


I don't know if Pearl Diver counts given Oracle, Cartographer, Wishing Well, Apothecary, Scout, etc.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 02:39:33 am by jimjam »
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 03:19:22 am »
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Tribute is the only card that can affect another player's deck without attacking (thought I guess you could argue that possession does too...).
Lighthouse is the only card that has an effect on another player's turn while it is in play.
Copper is the only card that provides more money than its cost.
Curse is the only card that is purple (similarly for harem, fool's gold, tunnel...).
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rspeer

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 03:32:16 am »
+2

Ooh, I can do these. It's like you're listing all the things that are annoying to code in Dominiate!

Grand Market is the only Kingdom card you might not be able to buy when you can pay its cost.
Horse Traders is the only card that affects the start of your next turn without being a Duration.
Lighthouse is the only card that unconditionally protects you from attacks.
King's Court is the only card that can cause you to have more Duration effects in play than you have cards in play. (...which is why the rules for whether to clean it up are so crazy.)
Secret Chamber is the only card you can reveal multiple times with different effects.
Stash is the only card that requires you to make a decision while shuffling.
Tactician is the only Duration card that you might clean up the same turn that you play it.
Possession is the only card that changes all the rules and makes your head explode.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 03:35:01 am by rspeer »
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Geronimoo

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 03:36:06 am »
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I could probably add a bunch of lines here too, but don't really see the point of this exercise.
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chwhite

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 03:44:18 am »
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Copper is the only card that provides more money than its cost.

Fool's Gold can sometimes do that too.
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rspeer

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 03:54:46 am »
+1

Bank can give you more coins than its cost, Diadem (to be lame) always does, and Philosopher's Stone confuses the issue of what "more" means.
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DStu

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 04:09:18 am »
+1

I could probably add a bunch of lines here too, but don't really see the point of this exercise.

Finding the only card that has some property is just extreme "What's missing?":

What's missing in the following list:

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Fangz

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 04:11:29 am »
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Mandarin is the only card that lets you determine your hands for more than one turn.
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DStu

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2011, 04:12:43 am »
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Mandarin is the only card that lets you determine your hands for more than one turn.

Scheme?
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Geronimoo

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2011, 04:44:52 am »
+1

Shouldn't this be moved to Puzzles?
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philosophyguy

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2011, 07:27:21 am »
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Coppersmith is not the only card that changes the effect of playing another card. Any two actions will affect the playing of Conspirator.
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AJD

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2011, 09:53:45 am »
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Quarry is the only card that changes the relative cost between non-copper/curse cards (single usage) (All actions affect peddler).
Mining Village is the only card that gives you the option of trashing itself when you play it.
Island is the only card that lets you eliminate your entire deck without help from your opponent (Embargo/Mining Village doesn't really help, since how would you get to where you only had that one card)?
Transmute is the only card that can upgrade a copper into itself (without bridges).
Horn of Plenty is the only Treasure that doesn't give you any form of money.
Pawn is the only card that can ALWAYS let you get +1 card and +0 action (I guess atomically that's not that interesting but it's always bugged me that there's no Card with +1 card without a + action)
Cities is the only card that cares about piles emptying.
Tactician is the only duration card that may not do anything on your next turn (Haven)
Duke is the only Green you can get all of without getting any VP (in a 3 player game).(Fairgrounds, Vineyard. Fail.)
Curse is the only card lowering your VP (even in the corner case of gardens, it in itself lowers your VP).
Fool's Gold is the only card sensitive to when your opponent gains a card (Embargo doesn't count, since it's the embargo token that matters).

Most of these aren't all that unique.... For instance, Mining Village is a simple combination of the atoms +card, +action, "you may", trashing, and +$, all of which are found on many other cards; Transmute is a combination of trash and gain; and so on. City might count, though—I was thinking City and Trade Route are both sensitive to the state of the Supply, but because of edge cases involving Ambassador that's not quite true for Trade Route.
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AJD

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2011, 09:57:21 am »
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Coppersmith is not the only card that changes the effect of playing another card. Any two actions will affect the playing of Conspirator.

That's a fact about Conspirator, not a fact about "any two actions". That said, I guess Pirate Ship might have a claim against Coppersmith's uniqueness: playing Pirate Ship can change the effect of playing future Pirate Ships (for the rest of the game, rather than just for the rest of the turn).

Conspirator is the only card sensitive to how many cards have been played this turn, but Fool's Gold and Crossroads are both sensitive to how many copies of a certain card have been played, so that might not be sufficiently distinct.
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Geronimoo

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2011, 10:09:26 am »
+1

Apprentice is the only card that cares about the Potion cost of a card.
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Elyv

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 10:28:36 am »
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Counting House is the only card that lets you put cards from your discard pile into your hand.
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Anon79

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2011, 10:52:17 am »
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Mountebank is the only card that increases your opponent's decksize by more than one?
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tlloyd

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2011, 10:57:03 am »
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Coppersmith is not the only card that changes the effects of playing another card (copper). Every treasure changes the effect of playing a Bank.
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AJD

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2011, 12:31:46 pm »
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Coppersmith is not the only card that changes the effects of playing another card (copper). Every treasure changes the effect of playing a Bank.

The effect of Bank is "$1 per Treasure in play". Playing Treasures doesn't change that effect.
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tlloyd

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2011, 01:29:13 pm »
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Coppersmith is not the only card that changes the effects of playing another card (copper). Every treasure changes the effect of playing a Bank.

The effect of Bank is "$1 per Treasure in play". Playing Treasures doesn't change that effect.

This is just semantics. You could just as well say that a copper is worth $1 + $1 per Coppersmith in play, in which case playing a coppersmith doesn't change that effect. Nonsense.
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popsofctown

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2011, 01:58:53 pm »
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It's not actually a semantic difference, it's a real difference that no card in the game is capable of triggering.  Coppersmith creates an until end of turn effect that modifies what playing a copper does.  Even if you trashed that Coppersmith from play, which as far as I know you can't, Copper would still have a modified effect for the rest of the turn.  So right now, the changing effects of Coppersmith and Bank, although entirely different from a rules perspective, are never distinct in any real-game situation.  The moment Rio Grande games prints something like "+6 actions.  Whenever you play an action card this turn, trash it immediately afterward", Bank and Coppersmith do become different.

So Coppersmith does have a unique effect.  Or doesn't yet.  Depends on how you look at it.  It's kind of a "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it does it make a sound" kinda thing.
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Deadlock39

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 02:02:50 pm »
+1

This is just semantics. You could just as well say that a copper is worth $1 + $1 per Coppersmith in play, in which case playing a coppersmith doesn't change that effect. Nonsense.

I don't really agree.  This is a question of semantics, but the semantics are explicitly applied in a different way between the two cards. 

Copper is worth $1.  It denotes it's own value as $1.  Coppersmith alters that value.  Bank is worth $1 per treasure in play.  This is Bank's value as determined by Bank itself.  To say that playing treasures changes the effect of playing Bank, you would need Bank to be explicitly worth $0 (not $?) and put "When this is in play, Bank produces an additional $1" on every single treasure card in the game.   Bank is determining its own value based on the number of treasures in play, the treasures in play are not acting on Bank to change its value.

tlloyd

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2011, 03:02:13 pm »
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When you pick up one end of a stick, you pick up the other as well. If A is affected by B, then B affects A. The effect of playing Bank is affected by previous treasures you've played, just as the effect of playing a copper is affected by previous Coppersmiths you've played. Ergo, both Coppersmith and any treasure card can affect the effect of a later card. It doesn't even matter if there is some possible scenario in which these effects would operate differently - they share the attribute in question in that they CAN affect the effect of playing a later card. The difference you are straining at is that one produces the effect by being played, while the others produce the effect by being in play. That's an important distinction as far as rules go, but much less so in a silly exercise to identify unique card attributes. 
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tlloyd

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2011, 03:22:47 pm »
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Here's another way to make the point:

Claim 1: "Coppersmith is the only card that changes the effect of playing another card."

Claim 2: "Copper changes the effect of playing Bank."

One of these claims must be wrong (or at least incomplete). You tell me which one.

There are a few other counter-examples that are not quite as strong:
"Lighthouse changes the effect of playing Militia"
"Throne room changes the effect of playing Conspirator"
"Lookout changes the effect of playing Library"
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rinkworks

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2011, 03:55:01 pm »
+1

I think the problem here is that we're not all defining "effect" in the same way.  tlloyd is defining "effect" by the ultimate outcome, as in:  "Bank's effect is +$2 under these conditions, and +$3 under those conditions, so Bank's effect is different under the two conditions."    Indeed, this is absolutely correct.

AJD, et al, is saying, "Bank's effect is +$ equal to the number of Treasure cards in play."  Thus, its effect is the same whether 2 Treasure cards are in play vs. 3 Treasure cards in play.  Mention was made in this thread of "atoms."  Bank only has the one atom, and playing Treasures beforehand doesn't change what that atom is, nor does it change the atoms of any other card, played or yet to play.

Neither are unreasonable arguments.  The former is player-centric:  the player doesn't care what internal mechanism is at work, only how much money he can spend when all is said and done.  The latter is game-design-centric:  what matters is NOT the ultimate outcome but rather the specific function of each component of the machinery.

Both of these views are important, depending on the context of the conversation.  In this one, though, a conversation about how individual cards actually work, I have to side with AJD.  No, Copper does not change Bank's effect when played.  Yes, Coppersmith does change Copper's effect when played.

Now, if Coppersmith were reworded thus:  "After you are finished playing Treasures, +$1 per Copper in play," then I would agree that Coppersmith does NOT change Copper's effect -- even though the ultimate outcome would be the same.  Because in that case, Coppersmith would be the card performing the effect.  But it doesn't read that way:  it says that, specifically, Copper does a new thing.  And so it does.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 03:58:15 pm by rinkworks »
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AJD

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2011, 04:12:06 pm »
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Hm, I do think, on the other hand, tlloyd is right about Lighthouse (and Moat)—they do change the effect of attack cards. So I guess Coppersmith isn't the only card that changes the effect of playing another card; it's just the most blatant about it.
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tlloyd

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2011, 04:44:32 pm »
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The way I see it is both Coppersmith-Copper and [insert treasure card]-Bank have the dynamic that A changes the effect of B. The biggest difference is which of the two cards establishes that dynamic. For Coppersmith, A tells us that "A affects B." For Bank, B tells us that "A affects B." But the dynamic is the same in either case. I don't see the value in attributing the dynamic to one card or the other, since if A affects B then B is affected by A.
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tlloyd

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2011, 04:58:32 pm »
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I think Duke/Duchy is a great comparison. Imagine that duke said nothing, and duchy was changed to say "3 VP + 1 VP per Duke." This would have absolutely no effect on the attributes of either Duke or Duchy (try the math yourself). The same change could in theory work for bank, but then you'd have to state the effect in several cards instead of just one.
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Karrow

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2011, 05:06:22 pm »
0

lol!  I love you guys.  Where's that eating popcorn smiley...   

Sorry for the interruption, please continue.
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RiemannZetaJones

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2011, 11:04:15 pm »
0

Is Black Market the only card that allows you to play actions after playing treasure cards?
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play2draw

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2011, 11:18:47 pm »
+1

Black Market is unique in many ways  :P
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popsofctown

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2011, 11:59:28 pm »
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I think the problem here is that we're not all defining "effect" in the same way.  tlloyd is defining "effect" by the ultimate outcome, as in:  "Bank's effect is +$2 under these conditions, and +$3 under those conditions, so Bank's effect is different under the two conditions."    Indeed, this is absolutely correct.

AJD, et al, is saying, "Bank's effect is +$ equal to the number of Treasure cards in play."  Thus, its effect is the same whether 2 Treasure cards are in play vs. 3 Treasure cards in play.  Mention was made in this thread of "atoms."  Bank only has the one atom, and playing Treasures beforehand doesn't change what that atom is, nor does it change the atoms of any other card, played or yet to play.

Neither are unreasonable arguments.  The former is player-centric:  the player doesn't care what internal mechanism is at work, only how much money he can spend when all is said and done.  The latter is game-design-centric:  what matters is NOT the ultimate outcome but rather the specific function of each component of the machinery.

Both of these views are important, depending on the context of the conversation.  In this one, though, a conversation about how individual cards actually work, I have to side with AJD.  No, Copper does not change Bank's effect when played.  Yes, Coppersmith does change Copper's effect when played.

Now, if Coppersmith were reworded thus:  "After you are finished playing Treasures, +$1 per Copper in play," then I would agree that Coppersmith does NOT change Copper's effect -- even though the ultimate outcome would be the same.  Because in that case, Coppersmith would be the card performing the effect.  But it doesn't read that way:  it says that, specifically, Copper does a new thing.  And so it does.

Seems semantic.  I mean, I agree in principle but I'm totally unable to come up with a situation where Coppersmith and the interpretation of "Copper = 1$ + 1$ per Coppersmith" is any different from bank (even with fictional cards).

I was pointing out that it's unique in being an until-end-of-turn effect, but I realize you're talking about something else here.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2011, 12:55:18 am »
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I was pointing out that it's unique in being an until-end-of-turn effect, but I realize you're talking about something else here.

Bridge is also an until-end-of-turn effect.

Anyhow, maybe the simpler way to put the Coppersmith situation is that, when you play Coppersmith, it makes Copper have an effect which is different from the effect printed on the Copper card. (The same is true for revealing Moat, or having Lighthouse in play—the result is that an Attack has a different effect than what is printed on the attack card.) Having treasures in play doesn't cause Bank to have an effect different from what is printed on the card.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2011, 02:52:31 pm »
+1

Possession is the only card that allows one player to make decisions for another player's turn.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2011, 03:02:01 pm »
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To be more specific, it's the only card that allows one player to choose what plays another player makes on the latter's turn.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2011, 04:35:16 pm »
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Tribute is the only card that can affect another player's deck without attacking (thought I guess you could argue that possession does too...).

I think you'd definitely have to count Possession, but even more so, Ill-Gotten-Gains.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2011, 04:52:45 pm »
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Here's another way to make the point:

Claim 1: "Coppersmith is the only card that changes the effect of playing another card."

Claim 2: "Copper changes the effect of playing Bank."

One of these claims must be wrong (or at least incomplete). You tell me which one.

I think Claim 2 is wrong. The issue here isn't a question of the semantics of what it means to "affect" another card, the issue is that there are 2 possible definitions of the word "effect." The OP meant the specific Dominion-related definition of "the steps you take when you play a card." There is also a more general definition of "effect," which is more like "the net result of playing a card." In the second definition, yes, copper changes the effect of playing Bank.

However, looking at "effect" as "steps you preform when you play a card," then when you play a Bank, you preform the same steps, no matter what treasure has been played: count how many treasures are in play, and get that many coins.

But the effect of playing Copper has actually changed. If you've played a Coppersmith, you cannot preform the steps listed on the Copper card, which is "get 1 coin." That step is gone, you now preform a new step instead, which is "get 2 coins."

*Edit* rinkworks seems to have said the same basic thing...
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2011, 03:29:23 pm »
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I feel like someone had to have mentioned it, but I didn't see Tournament anywhere in this discussion. That one jumps out as pretty obvious. :-P
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2011, 06:57:37 pm »
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Tribute is the only card that can affect another player's deck without attacking (thought I guess you could argue that possession does too...).

I think you'd definitely have to count Possession, but even more so, Ill-Gotten-Gains.
Well, IGG doesn't actually affect the other players' decks - it affects their discard pile by making them gain something. Speaking of which, Masquerade isn't a "real" attack either, but it also affects the other players "overall" decks. In fact, I think Masquerade is the only non-attack that affects other players' hands. Well, and Possession.

Secret Chamber is the only card you can reveal multiple times with different effects.
Well, you could reveal a Watchtower twice with different effects against a Mountebank (trash the Curse, put the Copper on deck)... which is pretty similar.

Outpost is the only card that cares about consecutive turns.

I guess Fool's Gold and Tunnel would have been unique before the other was revealed (The only reactions that aren't also actions) but now they're a pair. Go figure.

I was going to say that Trader is the only card that can replace a gain action with another gain action, but technically Possession does something very similar.

Mining Village is the only card that gives you the option of trashing itself when you play it.
I guess Horn of Plenty doesn't explicitly give you that option, but as long as you can choose a Victory card, it effectively does. ;)

How about this one: as far as I can think of, there is currently no card that makes you choose / single out another player. Everything affects either all players or a single player based on turn order. (Seems like an explicit omission so far. We'll see if any cards come along that break that rule.)
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2011, 07:04:37 pm »
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In fact, I think Masquerade is the only non-attack that affects other players' hands. Well, and Possession.

Bishop, Vault, Council Room, Governor, just off the top of my head.

In terms of affecting others' decks without attacking, Noble Brigand (on buy) and Duchess.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2011, 07:14:18 pm »
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How about this one: as far as I can think of, there is currently no card that makes you choose / single out another player. Everything affects either all players or a single player based on turn order. (Seems like an explicit omission so far. We'll see if any cards come along that break that rule.)

I don't think there's coming up a card that will have an effect like that. It's not intended to have politics in Dominion. There's much information about that on Secret History of Dominion Cards.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2011, 07:58:13 pm »
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I feel like someone had to have mentioned it, but I didn't see Tournament anywhere in this discussion. That one jumps out as pretty obvious. :-P

The obvious unique thing that Tournament does is also done by Black Market, essentially.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2011, 09:16:15 pm »
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Gain Prizes? No, I'm pretty sure tournament is the only card that lets you gain Prizes.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2011, 09:28:11 pm »
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I mean, I feel like the fact that the cards that you gain with Tournament have the 'Prize' type and the fact that the cards that you gain with Black Market don't isn't that much of a big deal (any more that that the cards you gain with University have the 'Action' type), so much as what they both do is introduce single copies of cards to the game that are gained from outside the Supply.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2011, 11:15:08 pm »
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Fair enough.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2015, 12:51:58 pm »
+1

So okay, all Dominion cards are unique in that none of them are exactly the same as any others. But most of them are made up of more or less the same atoms, as Donald once put it: +cards, +actions, +buy, +$, +VP; discard, trash, reveal, set aside, gain, top-deck, look at; etc. But there are a few cards that do things unlike anything any other card does. Now that Hinterlands is out, several cards that were unique for a long time are no longer unique—Mint is obviously no longer the only card with an on-buy effect; thanks to Inn, Counting House is no longer the only card that allows you to remove cards from your discard pile. But there are new unique features to some of the cards in Hinterlands, and some of the unique features of other cards are still unique:

Ambassador is the only card that can return a card to the Supply.
Coppersmith is the only card that changes the effect of playing another card.
Duchess is the only card that changes the effect of gaining another card.
Embargo is the only card that changes the effect of buying another card.
Inn is the only card that allows you to shuffle your non-empty deck.
Masquerade is the only card that allows cards to be passed between players.
Outpost is the only card that changes how many cards you draw in cleanup.
Pearl Diver is the only card that causes you to interact with a card in your deck other than the top card.
Philosopher's Stone is the only card that allows you to count your discard pile.
Possession is the only card that allows one player to make decisions for another player's turn.
Stash is the only card that allows you to stack the deck while shuffling.
Tunnel is the only card sensitive to when something is being discarded.
Young Witch is the only card that changes the number of Kingdom piles in the game.

Are there any other cards with totally unique properties? Note that even some cards with oddball features, like Grand Market, have atoms that exist in other card properties. (Grand Market and Contraband both have effects that can forbid you from buying something; Grand Market and lots of other cards have effects that are sensitive to what is in play at the moment.) Note that I don't discriminate between what triggers the effects; in the case of Young Witch and Duchess, it's simply their presence in the game. What triggers an effect (on play, on buy, on gain, when in play, when present, etc.) is just another atom.

So I thought that this thread would be interesting to look at in light of the 3 (I think) sets that have come out since this was written. On that list, we now would have to remove Philosopher's Stone and Outpost, at least. And I'm sure there's plenty of new ones that could be added.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2015, 01:42:55 pm »
0

Mountebank is the only card that increases your opponent's decksize by more than one?
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2015, 01:46:51 pm »
+1

I can think of one missing from the list.

City - The only card whose effects are dependent on the number of empty piles.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2015, 01:56:40 pm »
+1

Mountebank is the only card that increases your opponent's decksize by more than one?
Torturer

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2015, 02:02:02 pm »
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Coppersmith's unique ability as written is now shared by Teacher and depending on how you interpret it, maybe the cards that use the Journey Token.

I think a new one can be added for Caravan Guard as the only card you can play when it isn't your turn.

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2015, 02:11:17 pm »
0

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.
Diadem is the only card that cares about how many actions you have remaining.
Knights are the only Kingdom cards that are in single copies, and the only pile that does not all cost the same.
Caravan Guard is the only card that can be played when it's not your turn. (Ninja'd!)

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2015, 02:15:41 pm »
+1

Mountebank is the only card that increases your opponent's decksize by more than one?
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2015, 02:16:35 pm »
0

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2015, 02:23:32 pm »
+3

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler

It doesn't care how many you've played, just how many you have in play.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2015, 02:29:42 pm »
0

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler

It doesn't care how many you've played, just how many you have in play.

Can a card enter play without having been played?
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #61 on: September 02, 2015, 02:30:21 pm »
0

Don't all the cards in Alchemy also change the number of supply piles in the game?
Young Witch changes the number of Kingdom cards and is the only card that does that. Potions are not Kingspdom cards.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #62 on: September 02, 2015, 02:31:00 pm »
0

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler

It doesn't care how many you've played, just how many you have in play.

Can a card enter play without having been played?

Horse Traders?
IIRC Durations from the previous turn trigger Conspirator without any further cards being played.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #63 on: September 02, 2015, 02:35:34 pm »
+2

Can a card enter play without having been played?

Yes. Cards can also be played without entering play, or leave play immediately after being played.

IIRC Durations from the previous turn trigger Conspirator without any further cards being played.

They don't.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #64 on: September 02, 2015, 02:41:40 pm »
0

Mountebank is the only card that increases your opponent's decksize by more than one?

There are other ways you can play a card and your opponent's deck is increased by more than one card. What if playing a card allows your opponent to gain a Border Village? Governor, Swindler and Jester (possibly some others I have overlooked) could potentially allow your opponent to gain a BV on your turn.

Also the on trash effects of Squire and Catacombs could also allow this to happen.


« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 02:49:47 pm by xyz123 »
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #65 on: September 02, 2015, 02:44:22 pm »
+1

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler

It doesn't care how many you've played, just how many you have in play.

Can a card enter play without having been played?

Durations from the previous turn are in play, buy were not played this turn. Reserves that have been called this turn are in play, but have not been played.

The other reason Peddler is different from Conspirator is cards that have been played, but are not in play. One-shots like Feast, plus when you play a card with Throne Room (it's been played twice, but only one of them is in play).
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2015, 02:45:34 pm »
+1

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler

It doesn't care how many you've played, just how many you have in play.

Can a card enter play without having been played?

Horse Traders?
IIRC Durations from the previous turn trigger Conspirator without any further cards being played.

Horse Traders cannot enter play without being played. It can just be set aside temporarily.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2015, 02:49:07 pm »
0

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler

It doesn't care how many you've played, just how many you have in play.

Can a card enter play without having been played?

Horse Traders?
IIRC Durations from the previous turn trigger Conspirator without any further cards being played.

Horse Traders cannot enter play without being played. It can just be set aside temporarily.
Agreed, but in this case on the next turn it would not trigger Conspirator because it has not been played that turn but would reduce Peddler by virtue of being in play at the end of the action phase.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2015, 02:52:49 pm »
0

Conspirator is the only card that cares about how many actions you've played.)
Peddler

It doesn't care how many you've played, just how many you have in play.

Can a card enter play without having been played?

Horse Traders?
IIRC Durations from the previous turn trigger Conspirator without any further cards being played.

Horse Traders cannot enter play without being played. It can just be set aside temporarily.
Agreed, but in this case on the next turn it would not trigger Conspirator because it has not been played that turn but would reduce Peddler by virtue of being in play at the end of the action phase.

No.... it wouldn't be in play. Not sure what you're thinking of... you set it aside when you use the reaction (can't be your turn at this time. Even if it were your turn, it's not in play, it's set aside). You pick it back up when you start your turn. It's never in play, unless you choose to play it on your turn like a normal card.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 02:54:05 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2015, 04:04:59 pm »
+5

Did I ever tell you the guys the story about how I haven't played Dominion in over a year since my child was born? No? Well, that explains the mess I created in here.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2015, 04:19:14 pm »
+2

Did I ever tell you the guys the story about how I haven't played Dominion in over a year since my child was born? No? Well, that explains the mess I created in here.

This makes me even more grateful that I play Dominion with my coworkers every Friday at lunch.
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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2015, 04:33:09 pm »
+1

Did I ever tell you the guys the story about how I haven't played Dominion in over a year since my child was born? No? Well, that explains the mess I created in here.

This makes me even more grateful that I play Dominion with my coworkers every Friday at lunch.

Not counting the base-set Campaign levels in the new app; I've played maybe 10 games of Dominion total since Isotropic shut down.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2015, 05:40:46 pm »
0

Don't all the cards in Alchemy also change the number of supply piles in the game?
Young Witch changes the number of Kingdom cards and is the only card that does that. Potions are not Kingspdom cards.

Cultist, Marauder, and Death Cart change the number of piles.

And, going back to Mountebank, Death Cart also gains two cards when you get it.

Port is the only 12-card non-victory pile in the game.
Rats is the only 20-pile in the game.
Ruins are the only pile that changes its contents from game to game.
Pillage is the only card that lets you look at your opponents hand.
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AJD

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2015, 05:43:37 pm »
+1

[Port is the only 12-card non-victory pile in the game.
Rats is the only 20-pile in the game.

I think, with the introduction of Port, Rats is no longer unique—they both mean that "the number of cards in the pile might be different from the default" is a thing that exists now.

Quote
Pillage is the only card that lets you look at your opponents hand.

Bureaucrat?
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Chris is me

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2015, 05:49:10 pm »
0

Storyteller is both the only card that allows you to play Treasure outside of your Buy phase* and the only card that allows you to spend Coins outside of your Buy phase*.

*Black Market creates a new Buy phase, so I don't really count it.
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chipperMDW

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2015, 06:03:25 pm »
+2

Black Market creates a new Buy phase, so I don't really count it.
Not really, though. If it did, you could use coin tokens at the Black Market and buy price-reduced Peddlers from there. But you can't.
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GendoIkari

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2015, 06:54:40 pm »
+1

Storyteller is both the only card that allows you to play Treasure outside of your Buy phase* and the only card that allows you to spend Coins outside of your Buy phase*.

*Black Market creates a new Buy phase, so I don't really count it.

Chipper is correct, Black Market definitely does NOT create a new buy phase. Aside from not being allowed to use coin tokens, the cost of Peddler isn't reduced either. It's definitely not a buy phase.
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Moneymodel

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2015, 09:15:42 pm »
0

Pillage is the only card that lets you look at your opponents hand.

Bureaucrat?

Well, and Cutpurse, but Pillage is a guaranteed look.

That said, so is Possession.
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ConMan

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2015, 09:37:24 pm »
0

I'd say Pillage and Possession both let you see your opponent's hand, cards like Bureaucrat and Cutpurse cause your opponent to reveal their hand, and these are two different effects (although the difference is generally not apparent in a 2p game). Either way, I'd say the effect is not unique.

Inheritance is the only "card" (despite not being a card) that changes the type of a card.
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Donald X.

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #79 on: September 02, 2015, 10:44:37 pm »
+2

Inheritance is the only "card" (despite not being a card) that changes the type of a card.
Band of Misfits.
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werothegreat

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2015, 10:54:29 pm »
0

Inheritance is the only "card" (despite not being a card) that changes the type of a card.
Band of Misfits.

But Band of Misfits is the only card that is "played" twice when put into play - once as Band of Misfits, then once as whatever it's emulating.
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ConMan

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2015, 11:25:05 pm »
+2

Inheritance is the only "card" (despite not being a card) that changes the type of a card.
Band of Misfits.
Touché.

Inheritance is the only card that lets you play one of the base Victory cards.
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2015, 10:43:53 am »
+1

Apprentice is the only card that cares about the Potion cost of a card.

I know this was posted pre-Guilds, so it wouldn't take Stonemason into account, but don't cards like Remodel, etc. also factor in Potion cost?

That said, I don't know of any other cards that do something slightly different for the Potion cost of a card, nor specify in the card text.
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GendoIkari

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2015, 11:33:55 am »
+2

Apprentice is the only card that cares about the Potion cost of a card.

I know this was posted pre-Guilds, so it wouldn't take Stonemason into account, but don't cards like Remodel, etc. also factor in Potion cost?

That said, I don't know of any other cards that do something slightly different for the Potion cost of a card, nor specify in the card text.

Remodel doesn't act any differently if there's a potion in the cost of a card or not. In either case, you can gain a card costing upt o more. If the card you trash has in the cost, then more will include cards that also have in the cost. But I see what you're saying.
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Erick648

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2015, 08:42:45 pm »
+1

Stonemason: The only non-Alchemy card you can buy with a Potion (I'm not sure if you can overpay for Doctor, Masterpiece, or Herald with Potion, but even if so, Stonemason's still the only non-Alchemy card you'd have any reason to buy with a Potion).

Caravan Guard: The only Action card you can play during a Buy phase (in response to Relic).

Gear: The only optional Duration (that is, the only card where you can choose whether it stays out past Clean-up).
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GendoIkari

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2015, 10:44:37 am »
+2

I'm pretty sure you can overpay Potion for any overpay card, but you're right, only Stonemason does anything if you do.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2015, 10:54:48 am »
0


Gear: The only optional Duration (that is, the only card where you can choose whether it stays out past Clean-up).

You can choose whether Tactician stays out past cleanup, by choosing whether to play it before or after Candlestick Maker (or whatever). Either way, there's no decision to be made during cleanup; all that matters are the decisions you made during the action phase.
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GendoIkari

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2015, 11:02:46 am »
+1


Gear: The only optional Duration (that is, the only card where you can choose whether it stays out past Clean-up).

You can choose whether Tactician stays out past cleanup, by choosing whether to play it before or after Candlestick Maker (or whatever). Either way, there's no decision to be made during cleanup; all that matters are the decisions you made during the action phase.

That requires specific circumstances... you have to have both no non-action cards in your hand, and you have to be able to play all your actions. With Gear, you always have a choice.
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chipperMDW

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #88 on: September 10, 2015, 11:38:20 am »
0

Develop is the only card that can have you compare to a cost that has a negative coin value.

Stonemason is the only card that can have you compare to a cost that has more than one potion.
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Hugovj

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2015, 01:57:59 pm »
+1

Miser is the only card that puts other cards on the tavern mat.

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #90 on: September 12, 2015, 06:48:10 am »
0

Poor House is the only card costing $1.
Relic is the only Treasure-Attack.
Caravan Guard is the only card you can play out of turn.
Watchtower is the only card that can trash cards as you gain them.
Harem is the only Treasure-Victory card.
Messenger is the only card that does something special when you buy it first.
Rats is the only pile containing 20 cards.
Knights is the only kingdom card pile containing 10 different cards.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #91 on: September 12, 2015, 06:53:33 am »
0

Hovel is the closest thing to a pure reaction.
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SCSN

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Re: What cards are still unique?
« Reply #92 on: September 12, 2015, 07:01:52 am »
+3

Black Market is still unique in so many marvelous ways, it's like the entirety of Dominion compressed into one card, thus making it the ultimate promo.
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