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Davio

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Goko UI Issues
« on: July 03, 2013, 03:29:58 am »
+9

Okay, I've played a fairly decent amount of games on Goko at this point, so time to reflect on its UI.

Let me start by saying: It's not thát bad and the issues I have can be fixed quite simply.
The problems I have resolve around a couple of key issues:

1. It doesn't protect against accidental double clicks.
This is by far the biggest problem.

Let's say Swindler is your last action card, you play it and you're opponent trashes a Copper, hooray! Excited, you click on Curse, but you accidentally double clicked, entered the buy phase and bought yourself a Curse as well. This is bad, horrible even, maybe you had $8 for a Province!

The positioning of the buttons is also very awkward. The "End Turn" button appears in the same place as "End Actions". So let's say you had an action card you didn't want to play, click End Actions, accidental double click and you bought nothing!
There are some other buttons awkwardly placed like that.

Accidental single clicking is also an issue, especially when you use a touchpad instead of a mouse, but I don't have that much problems with it. Usually I pick the right cards.

2. Dragging and dropping is finicky
Choosing between putting something on your deck and discarding it is a real hassle. The positions of the decks are so small and you have to watch for little green arrows to appear to make sure you've got the right one. With Watchtower you have to move your mouse all the way to the trash. Why not have a couple of buttons "Discard, Put On Top, Trash" or something?

3. It doesn't prevent stupidity, because it wasn't clear what was resolving
Okay, this might be more of a human problem since you just have to pay attention, but I can recall a couple of times where I've thought I wasn't trashing anymore and ended up trashing some good cards. Or when I thought I clicked "Done Discarding" when I hadn't. Hamlet and Storeroom are notable culprits as you get to discard twice. I've also had turns where I thought it was my turn and there was still an opponent's Bishop waiting for me to trash something.

4. It moves cards in your hand after you've revealed them
This is more of an annoyance, but say you're Moat is to the left or in the middle, after you revealed it once, it's shuffled over to the right. So you can't click the same location to reveal it the second time.

5. The chat window
I hate how this thing keeps popping up all the time, just have a "+1" icon or something similar layed over the button to open the chat. And I hate how it's over the Continue button at the end of the game.


How to fix these issues? Well, most can be fixed by providing some sort of undo option when that's possible and doesn't have any strategic impact. Like, you never want to allow undo-ing playing actions, but you might allow a player to undo playing his treasures for Mint and Grand Market etc.

Another is to just add little improvements to the positioning of some elements to make it less accident-prone. Having the End Actions/End Turn buttons in the same place is a bad idea. Or when you're doing something to a lot of cards at once (trashing, discarding), add them to a little box (like the "Reveal" box) first, click "Done" and only then discard or trash them.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 05:32:04 am »
+1

6. It doesn't show how much money you got in hand.
When playing engines you often end with many cards in your hand but it's not displayed how much your money cards are worth. It's a waste of time that you have to count them on your own.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2013, 06:08:17 am »
+1

The cards dance around the screen too much when showing information and once the cards have stopped dancing the information is gone. This means that the user has to actively watch for information rather than read it as required. The dancing cards can be wearing on the eyes, especially when the focus of your attention is getting moved around. It becomes very difficult to track multiplayer events since you lose track of who's cards are being dragged left, right, and center.
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Davio

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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2013, 06:14:59 am »
+1

Well, I'm using the extension so I can just read back the log.
Of course, they could have thought of such a thing themselves.
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blueblimp

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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2013, 01:38:46 am »
+1

Good list. I'd add that there's too much back-and-forth. When discarding cards, trashing cards, putting cards back, etc., the resulting change to game state is simultaneous, so the choice should be too. Instead I click one, there's a round trip to the server, the cards move around, and only then do I get to click the next one, etc. Gets annoying in some games.

One time #3 hit me: I once had $8 in hand and clicked End Actions... only to discover I didn't have actions in hand and had clicked End Turn. Rage-resign ensued. :)
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2013, 11:10:36 am »
+5

6. It doesn't show how much money you got in hand.
When playing engines you often end with many cards in your hand but it's not displayed how much your money cards are worth. It's a waste of time that you have to count them on your own.
It's almost like you're playing with real cards! Oh no!   ::)
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2013, 11:27:34 am »
0

I think that, since the update, the continue button has been moved to the side. Or at least, it has o the iPad.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2013, 11:40:41 am »
+4

6. It doesn't show how much money you got in hand.
When playing engines you often end with many cards in your hand but it's not displayed how much your money cards are worth. It's a waste of time that you have to count them on your own.
It's almost like you're playing with real cards! Oh no!   ::)
Wouldn't it be cool if you had to shuffle your deck manually, with a mouse gesture or some button smashing or something?
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2013, 12:47:57 pm »
+1

The biggest thing that bothers me is dragging to piles.  Dragging with Watchtower is just annoying.. and I think there is some card that gives you the option to drag to either your discard pile or the top of the deck.  That's really obnoxious since it can be hard to control with, say, a touch pad.

That and I *consistently* discard the cards I want to keep with Cartographer.  But that's mostly me being stupid.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2013, 01:32:35 pm »
+3

The biggest thing that bothers me is dragging to piles.  Dragging with Watchtower is just annoying.. and I think there is some card that gives you the option to drag to either your discard pile or the top of the deck.  That's really obnoxious since it can be hard to control with, say, a touch pad.
That's Navigator. It also has a "Discard" button to trick you into thinking that you can't drag them to your discard pile.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2013, 05:00:49 pm »
0

I think that, since the update, the continue button has been moved to the side. Or at least, it has o the iPad.
Yes, it has!
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 08:09:22 pm »
0

6. It doesn't show how much money you got in hand.
When playing engines you often end with many cards in your hand but it's not displayed how much your money cards are worth. It's a waste of time that you have to count them on your own.
It's almost like you're playing with real cards! Oh no!   ::)
Wouldn't it be cool if you had to shuffle your deck manually, with a mouse gesture or some button smashing or something?

No.  No it would not.


(This will probably happen on iOS...shake your device to shuffle!  Argh.)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2013, 03:32:47 pm »
+6

6. It doesn't show how much money you got in hand.
When playing engines you often end with many cards in your hand but it's not displayed how much your money cards are worth. It's a waste of time that you have to count them on your own.
It's almost like you're playing with real cards! Oh no!   ::)
Wouldn't it be cool if you had to shuffle your deck manually, with a mouse gesture or some button smashing or something?

Hopefully they'll eventually update it with the following features to make it feel more like real-life play:

1. You can only play against opponents who are in the same room as you.

2. When starting a game, you must wait 5 minutes to simulate each pile of cards being found from the collection of cards you own, and put out to be available this game. Of course, if you play multiple games in a row, subsequent games will only take 3 minutes instead of 5 because the basic supply cards will already be out.

3. At the end of a game, before starting a new game, you must wait a few minutes to simulate cards being put away.

4. There should be no text log whatsoever, but your opponent should be expected to use the chat window to explain what he's doing as he does it.

5. At the end of a game, it won't display who is the winner and how many points each player had. Rather, it will present the contents of your deck to you, and you can sift through and add up the victory points yourself.

6. It won't display the number of actions/coins/buys you have available during your turn.

7. It will let you click on any card to be purchased no matter how much money you have available. If you try to purchase a card that you cannot afford, it is up to your opponent to remind you that you made a mistake.

Yes, simulating real-life play should be Goko's top priority for making a good online product.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2013, 03:49:50 pm »
0

I was just saying that not saying how much money you have in hand is not that big of a deal.

Jeez.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2013, 03:55:39 pm »
0

I was just saying that not saying how much money you have in hand is not that big of a deal.

Jeez.

Hope you didn't take offense; all in good fun! :)
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2013, 04:12:14 pm »
0

6. It doesn't show how much money you got in hand.
When playing engines you often end with many cards in your hand but it's not displayed how much your money cards are worth. It's a waste of time that you have to count them on your own.
It's almost like you're playing with real cards! Oh no!   ::)
Wouldn't it be cool if you had to shuffle your deck manually, with a mouse gesture or some button smashing or something?

Hopefully they'll eventually update it with the following features to make it feel more like real-life play:

1. You can only play against opponents who are in the same room as you.

2. When starting a game, you must wait 5 minutes to simulate each pile of cards being found from the collection of cards you own, and put out to be available this game. Of course, if you play multiple games in a row, subsequent games will only take 3 minutes instead of 5 because the basic supply cards will already be out.

3. At the end of a game, before starting a new game, you must wait a few minutes to simulate cards being put away.

4. There should be no text log whatsoever, but your opponent should be expected to use the chat window to explain what he's doing as he does it.

5. At the end of a game, it won't display who is the winner and how many points each player had. Rather, it will present the contents of your deck to you, and you can sift through and add up the victory points yourself.

6. It won't display the number of actions/coins/buys you have available during your turn.

7. It will let you click on any card to be purchased no matter how much money you have available. If you try to purchase a card that you cannot afford, it is up to your opponent to remind you that you made a mistake.

Yes, simulating real-life play should be Goko's top priority for making a good online product.

I don't really think it would be possible for Goko to introduce more delays in playing.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2013, 04:34:16 pm »
0

6. It doesn't show how much money you got in hand.
When playing engines you often end with many cards in your hand but it's not displayed how much your money cards are worth. It's a waste of time that you have to count them on your own.
It's almost like you're playing with real cards! Oh no!   ::)
Wouldn't it be cool if you had to shuffle your deck manually, with a mouse gesture or some button smashing or something?

Hopefully they'll eventually update it with the following features to make it feel more like real-life play:

1. You can only play against opponents who are in the same room as you.

2. When starting a game, you must wait 5 minutes to simulate each pile of cards being found from the collection of cards you own, and put out to be available this game. Of course, if you play multiple games in a row, subsequent games will only take 3 minutes instead of 5 because the basic supply cards will already be out.

3. At the end of a game, before starting a new game, you must wait a few minutes to simulate cards being put away.

4. There should be no text log whatsoever, but your opponent should be expected to use the chat window to explain what he's doing as he does it.

5. At the end of a game, it won't display who is the winner and how many points each player had. Rather, it will present the contents of your deck to you, and you can sift through and add up the victory points yourself.

6. It won't display the number of actions/coins/buys you have available during your turn.

7. It will let you click on any card to be purchased no matter how much money you have available. If you try to purchase a card that you cannot afford, it is up to your opponent to remind you that you made a mistake.

Yes, simulating real-life play should be Goko's top priority for making a good online product.

I don't really think it would be possible for Goko to introduce more delays in playing.
It's certainly possible - I'd hate to see them try.



Wait, Goko would be the ones trying? Please, try! ;)

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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2013, 12:24:05 pm »
+1

For me, one of the biggest culprits is Jack of All Trades.  I don't know how many times I've played a village, played JoaT, and then clicked my next action, only to realize that I've just trashed it.  One of the most stupid and infuriating things that happens to me, and completely avoidable with good UI
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2013, 01:50:07 pm »
+2

Obviously Goko's UI exhibits a bias to Jack-BM.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2013, 08:51:46 am »
0

With Counterfeit, I don't know if this is a good idea any longer. Prior to Dark Ages, I can't imagine a practical reason to not play non-HoP treasure cards aside from the Grand Market limitation. Should you play Bank first or last? It's safe to assume last.

But now with Counterfeit, you can't just assume that the player is going to play it and get the money. And if he does play it, what will be trash?

That being said, I could see a running total of basic treasures. Let the player figure out in his head how much more he has if he plays that Hoard, Diadem, and Bank. Probably not something worth fixing—not when there are other things to work on.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2013, 09:09:55 am »
0

With Counterfeit, I don't know if this is a good idea any longer. Prior to Dark Ages, I can't imagine a practical reason to not play non-HoP treasure cards aside from the Grand Market limitation. Should you play Bank first or last? It's safe to assume last.

But now with Counterfeit, you can't just assume that the player is going to play it and get the money. And if he does play it, what will be trash?

I'm not sure I follow you. What "this" are you talking about?

And Counterfeit is not a big issue in my oppinion since the TR-ing/trashing isn't mandatory.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2013, 09:17:40 am »
+2

Quote
5. The chat window
I hate how this thing keeps popping up all the time, just have a "+1" icon or something similar layed over the button to open the chat. And I hate how it's over the Continue button at the end of the game.

This one is probably my biggest peeve. Why would they put the chat window right over the cards you're trying to play? I hate it when I'm trying to consider my options for a big hand, and then my opponent says something - great, now I have to click to even see my hand again, because apparently seeing someone say "OMFG d00d ru still there??" is more important than the cards.

Also, for times you need to pull stuff out of the discard or trash, is there any way to actually see the faces of those cards? When the pile you're looking through gets big, it's pretty difficult to tell one card from another given only a tiny left-hand slice of the picture.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2013, 09:28:30 am »
0

Quote
5. The chat window
I hate how this thing keeps popping up all the time, just have a "+1" icon or something similar layed over the button to open the chat. And I hate how it's over the Continue button at the end of the game.

This one is probably my biggest peeve. Why would they put the chat window right over the cards you're trying to play? I hate it when I'm trying to consider my options for a big hand, and then my opponent says something - great, now I have to click to even see my hand again, because apparently seeing someone say "OMFG d00d ru still there??" is more important than the cards.

Also, for times you need to pull stuff out of the discard or trash, is there any way to actually see the faces of those cards? When the pile you're looking through gets big, it's pretty difficult to tell one card from another given only a tiny left-hand slice of the picture.

To go along with that, it can be pretty difficult to pick what you are top-decking with Schemes if you played a lot of actions. I've often found myself just guessing based on the order I think I played them in because I can't see artwork or anything on the cards. Would be nice to be able to stretch the pile or something.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2013, 09:54:12 am »
0

With Counterfeit, I don't know if this is a good idea any longer. Prior to Dark Ages, I can't imagine a practical reason to not play non-HoP treasure cards aside from the Grand Market limitation. Should you play Bank first or last? It's safe to assume last.

But now with Counterfeit, you can't just assume that the player is going to play it and get the money. And if he does play it, what will be trash?

I'm not sure I follow you. What "this" are you talking about?

And Counterfeit is not a big issue in my oppinion since the TR-ing/trashing isn't mandatory.

Sorry, forgot to include quote. I was referring to contention #6.
I forgot that Counterfeit's trashing is not mandatory. Never mind.
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Re: Goko UI Issues
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2013, 09:54:31 am »
0

re: the trash/discard/play stuff: am I the only one who's noticed the different glowing edges? Red = if you click, you'll trash this card, orange = discard, blue = play. There's text above your hand, too.

The UI really isn't that bad. I'd only move the "End Your Turn" thing over to the left side of the play area to prevent misclicks, and use buttons instead of dragging for trash/discard/top deck for certain cards. Dragging is impossible with a touchpad.
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