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Author Topic: WW's Power Rankings  (Read 234665 times)

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gman314

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #425 on: July 31, 2013, 05:31:21 pm »
0

That is the single most awesome wikipedia page ever!
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Kirian

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #426 on: July 31, 2013, 05:57:32 pm »
+2

That is the single most awesome wikipedia page ever!

I see you and raise you this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars
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jonts26

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #427 on: July 31, 2013, 08:27:08 pm »
+1

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
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Awaclus

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #428 on: July 31, 2013, 08:32:53 pm »
+1

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
??? ...but... that article is a list of lists of lists, not a list of lists of lists of lists?
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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Kirian

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #429 on: July 31, 2013, 08:33:37 pm »
+3

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
??? ...but... that article is a list of lists of lists, not a list of lists of lists of lists?

Bertrand Russell is spinning in his grave.
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jonts26

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #430 on: July 31, 2013, 08:42:00 pm »
+1

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
??? ...but... that article is a list of lists of lists, not a list of lists of lists of lists?

Oh right I got carried away. Subtract one list from each side. Though technically a list of a list of a list is still a list of a list or even just a list it would be odd to include all higher order lists when a specific order is given.
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StrongRhino

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #431 on: August 01, 2013, 12:26:50 am »
+1

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
??? ...but... that article is a list of lists of lists, not a list of lists of lists of lists?

Oh right I got carried away. Subtract one list from each side. Though technically a list of a list of a list is still a list of a list or even just a list it would be odd to include all higher order lists when a specific order is given.
You're both wrong- it should be a list it lists that lists lists listing all other lists in the list of lists.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #432 on: August 01, 2013, 01:05:46 am »
+2

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
??? ...but... that article is a list of lists of lists, not a list of lists of lists of lists?

Oh right I got carried away. Subtract one list from each side. Though technically a list of a list of a list is still a list of a list or even just a list it would be odd to include all higher order lists when a specific order is given.
You're both wrong- it should be a list it lists that lists lists listing all other lists in the list of lists.

Is this a quote of quotes or a quote of a quote of quotes of quotes?
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Kirian

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #433 on: August 01, 2013, 04:44:25 am »
+3

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
??? ...but... that article is a list of lists of lists, not a list of lists of lists of lists?

Oh right I got carried away. Subtract one list from each side. Though technically a list of a list of a list is still a list of a list or even just a list it would be odd to include all higher order lists when a specific order is given.
You're both wrong- it should be a list it lists that lists lists listing all other lists in the list of lists.

Is this a quote of quotes or a quote of a quote of quotes of quotes?

"One plus one... plus two... plus one... the point is, there is one bullet left in this gun, and guess who's going to get it!"
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Polk5440

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #434 on: August 01, 2013, 08:09:39 am »
+1

^ I was just thinking that myself.  ;D
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TWoos

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #435 on: August 01, 2013, 08:44:05 am »
+1

...

Plus I think people here just like making lists.

We should make a list of all the lists.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

That article doesn't list itself!

Because that article is a list of lists of lists of lists not a list of lists of lists itself.
??? ...but... that article is a list of lists of lists, not a list of lists of lists of lists?

In actual fact, it /does/ list itself.  And it's misnamed.  It is a list of lists of lists and lists.
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Witherweaver

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #436 on: August 01, 2013, 10:06:25 am »
+2

A list of {list of}^n lists is still a list of lists for any natural number n.
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jonts26

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #437 on: August 01, 2013, 10:41:39 am »
+10

I'd continue arguing about this but I'm feeling rather listless.
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Awaclus

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #438 on: August 01, 2013, 10:52:18 am »
+2

I'd continue arguing about this but I'm feeling rather listless.
It's a shame. I would've wanted to continue listening to you!
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Tables

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #439 on: August 01, 2013, 11:35:42 am »
+1

Does anyone feel like you've derailed the topic slightly?
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Witherweaver

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #440 on: August 01, 2013, 11:43:53 am »
+2

Does anyone feel like you've derailed the topic slightly?

I think a list of derailed topics on this forum would be quite illuminating.
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gman314

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #441 on: August 01, 2013, 11:46:18 am »
+1

List:

All topics have been derailed.
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LastFootnote

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #442 on: August 01, 2013, 12:08:45 pm »
+5

Does anyone feel like you've derailed the topic slightly?

If may not yet be sunk, but it's certainly listing.
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StrongRhino

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #443 on: August 01, 2013, 06:47:55 pm »
+1

Does anyone feel like you've derailed the topic slightly?
No
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jonts26

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #444 on: August 01, 2013, 08:52:42 pm »
+3

Does anyone feel like you've derailed the topic slightly?
No

Yeah, we're doing ship jokes, not train jokes.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #445 on: August 05, 2013, 09:56:33 pm »
+4

48.   Hamlet
Possibly you are surprised this is so low, but if anything I think this might be high. Its a cheaper village that can get plus buy, no? Well, you do often have a card to discard at little penalty, except it's often not NO penalty, and it's a lot worse than village for trying to set up an engine - you have one fewer card every time, and these stack poorly. Also, they can make poor cards come back for the shuffle quite annoyingly. Still, it's a good little card and one which can be very nice when used properly.

47.   Watchtower
This card now has 854 different combos with on-gain, on-trash, and all kinds of other benefits. It's also a pretty nice defense against most of the nastiest attacks in the game, and it can be a pretty nice drawer in many circumstances.

46.   Squire
I have this above hamlet. It's even a tiny bit worse at making a draw engine, I grant you, but silver-flooding makes it good in a whole host of other situations as well, and the buys can be very nice. This thing can really blast piles sometimes. And the trash bonus can occasionally be highly powerful, even if it usually does little to nothing.

45.   Horn of Plenty
This can be a pretty nice payload and win condition and it helps to pick up components along the way. It can also just be a support card, though this is significantly rarer in my experience. But it can cut out basically all alt VP, so that is really strong. The big drawback is that you really need to watch out for piles and be able to go off in time.

44.   Haggler
This card isn't a superstar very often, but it's almost always a really nice, solid addition - pick up some decent to good treasure while ramping for BM (or choke less on greening), or pick up two components at once for an engine. Basically only weak when there's something much better (and it's not too often that you don't make up for the skipped time, if you can afford the extra terminal) or when all the cards you'd ever want cost the same amount (generally 5, but also rare).

43.   Journeyman
Skipping estates is pretty nice. Skipping coppers can be really nice. Just smithy isn't bad, and this filters pretty well for you in the situation.

42.   Ghost Ship
This attack is hammeringly powerful, completely dominant on many boards, and telling you that with any village at all, you are going engine (okay, maybe combo or rush; this nerfs BM HARD). But there are about 72 counters by now, and engines can reasonably often shrug off the attack without THAT much harm.

41.   Tactician
This can do some pretty degenerative things with the right actions, in double tac decks, and it can be a solid card in a lot of single tac decks. But you have to watch out for getting either enough consistency or a big enough mega-turn, and not being able to get similar effects without the significant drawback via conventional drawing.

40.   Minion
So, the thing is, this isn't about a single-card deck. Just minions is not a terribly good thing. But it can be the centerpiece of an engine, draw-to-x, which can synergize with itself for money in a pinch, such that you don't have to worry at all about multiples. Add in that the attack is about as powerful as other discard attacks to three, and you've got yourself a power card - which is nevertheless not some kind of unstoppable force.

39.   Sea Hag
Pretty low, you think. Well, it's one of the more ignorable cursers, I find. It does nothing for you. And trash one cad at a time would neutralize it, and we didn't think trade route was good. But hitting them hard and early... well, curses are still good, but if you can get a way to deal with them semi-reasonably, this can be just a normal-ish-powered card, or even totally skippable.

38.   Marauder
It's like a worse sea hag that's slower and comes on a gold. I still don't have the greatest feel, but I feel it deserves coming in somewhere in the here range.

37.   Monument
VP chips are good, did you know? So good, that this in BM beats a lot of the baselines you look at, because those chips can save a duchy or two, or help you lose a province split by getting an extra duchy or two - really, it's not that hard to get two more duchies and play this 7+times, lose the province split by two and win. And it's even much better in engines, where you can play it more. Basically an alt VP card, lets you sit around and not green, not green, not green.

Mic Qsenoch

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #446 on: August 05, 2013, 10:17:27 pm »
+3

I think Hamlet and Squire are both a little too high. Squire is just terrible to rely on as your only Village in an engine, the Silver flooding is just okay, and the plus buys are sometimes awesome, sometimes redundant. The Hamlet discard penalty really hurts it from working well with the +2 cards terminal draw. In general, both of these are cards that can enable engines, but also trick people into making strategies where they are just spinning wheels. I would like to see Menagerie and Swindler up in this section, and Courtyard higher than Hamlet/Squire as well (but they are all pretty close in my mind).

I agree with the Sea Hag assessment completely, in order to Curse your opponent you must first Curse yourself, and without TfB that Sea Hag is such dead weight.
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Destierro

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #447 on: August 05, 2013, 11:34:59 pm »
+2

47.   Watchtower
This card now has 854 different combos with on-gain, on-trash, and all kinds of other benefits. It's also a pretty nice defense against most of the nastiest attacks in the game, and it can be a pretty nice drawer in many circumstances.

42.   Ghost Ship
This attack is hammeringly powerful, completely dominant on many boards, and telling you that with any village at all, you are going engine (okay, maybe combo or rush; this nerfs BM HARD). But there are about 72 counters by now, and engines can reasonably often shrug off the attack without THAT much harm.

Are these numbers for emphasis? They seem a bit high.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #448 on: August 05, 2013, 11:35:52 pm »
+15

47.   Watchtower
This card now has 854 different combos with on-gain, on-trash, and all kinds of other benefits. It's also a pretty nice defense against most of the nastiest attacks in the game, and it can be a pretty nice drawer in many circumstances.

42.   Ghost Ship
This attack is hammeringly powerful, completely dominant on many boards, and telling you that with any village at all, you are going engine (okay, maybe combo or rush; this nerfs BM HARD). But there are about 72 counters by now, and engines can reasonably often shrug off the attack without THAT much harm.

Are these numbers for emphasis? They seem a bit high.
They are precisely calculated hyperboles.

Robz888

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Re: WW's Power Rankings
« Reply #449 on: August 05, 2013, 11:55:35 pm »
+7

Nah.... I just don't think Marauder is better than Sea Hag, although I agree with you that Sea Hag isn't as powerful as its reputation suggests, and is by now countered by a whole host of things, even just moderate trashing, rather than excellent trashing. But anyway, while I do think they are close, Marauder's attack is really just way worse than Sea Hag's. Ruins suck, but they suck a whole lot less than Curses. And it's not like the Cultist situation, where okay, you are giving out this not-as-bad-Curse, but you are giving it out blitzingly faster because of the multi-Curse thing.

Now, Marauder gets you a 1-shot Gold. And yeah, that's a lot better than Sea Hag's nothing. Does it overcome the Curse advantage? I say no. The kind of games where these two cards are strong are ones where you really want permanent Treasure, because your deck is just shot to hell. Of course Spoils beats nothing, but I don't know that Spoil are so, so great when you have a fat deck and you aren't regenerating quickly. And if it's a set where you can easily recover from junking, okay, you should pass on both these cards anyway.

Add in the fact that Sea Hag puts the Curse right there on top of your deck right away, and the edge case 100% counter to Marauder in the form of Vineyard, and I would give the nod to Sea Hag as being superior. True, they are close.
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