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[kn1tt3r]

A thin deck with sifting? I don't know what one of those looks like, if I have a thin deck, what junk am I sifting through?

The Victory cards you buy eventually.

[Young Nick]

Or one that isn't as thin as it could be. I'm looking at those games with Lookout, Moneylender, Spice Merchant, etc. as the trasher.

Edit: By "thin as it could be" I mean a deck that has trashed some, but not all of its starting cards.

[Witherweaver]

Or one that isn't as thin as it could be. I'm looking at those games with Lookout, Moneylender, Spice Merchant, etc. as the trasher.

Edit: By "thin as it could be" I mean a deck that has trashed some, but not all of its starting cards.

Plus the trasher itself becomes basically a junk card that you want to sift through.

[Piemaster]

If excited to find out what the 'poster child average' card is at 103

[Kirian]

113.   Advisor
Obviously this card needs some help. Basically you want some kind of sifter and/or cantrips and/or engines. But in an established engine, it can be virtually a lab. Of course, it can actually be very harmful to your deck as well, particularly if there are one or two key cards you want to play, as this can just make them miss the reshuffle.

Advisor at 113???

[microman]

None of those will be drawn dead either if you're not putting any terminal draw in your deck. Which you're probably not, in a counting house deck. I guess pawn can be terminal draw? Still.

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.

Well...  I guess I was being serious, but you do make a good point.  I guess I just meant counterfeit has an advantage over other +buy.  In your case with counting house that probably makes sense that you wouldn't need terminal actions anyways.

[WanderingWinder]

103.   Market
The average card. It's almost always a little plus, as a peddler with a little bonus, but it's only rarely game-breaking, when you need the buy.

102.   Scheme
It's the next best action in your deck, cheaply. However, it doesn't actually double the effect, just make it reliable. And there is potentially opportunity cost. This, plus the fact that you are often getting to 5 pretty regularly by the time you hit it first, stop this from being great. But it's solid.

101.   Gardens
There's rushes built around this card, and it can be used in slogs. But it's not premiere in either of those regards, and in a lot of engines, it is either estate or some 2 VP card. Of course, you can fairly often get it to 4 and sometimes more, too, but it's a bit tricky to do that and pick up lots of these. Still, it can be a huge game-changer in the right circumstances, and it's usually at least a potential factor.

100.   Smithy
Draw three. There are many variants, but this one is nice, because it only costs 4.

99.   Apothecary
This card is interesting in that it's a very fast engine card which nevertheless has poor longevity, quite the opposite of most things. But htere are a number o synergies, or you can just use this as a springboard to other things. Really helped out by +buy.

98.   Herald
You need a high action density and there are some potential dangers, but this can really make engines go off in the right situation, essentially turning into a one-empty-pile city.

97.   Baron
Really good early on, and also nice in engines without estate trashing. Terminal 4 isn't the best thing ever, but it's pretty good, and the +buy is very nice. You can even use it to gain estates sometimes. Not good with shelters or estate-trashing, though, or any deck where you can't pair it with estate very reliably.

96.   Peddler
It's a peddler effect, which is nice, plus it's reasonably often really cheap, plus it has good interactions with Trash For Benefit. Rarely just wins the game on its own though.

95.   Spice Merchant
Copper trashing with cycling, or in a pinch a little cash or +buy. Can also get rid of better treasures, but you rarely want to do this (occasionally you need a silver or two to get going and then want rid of them, or you're just in a desperate spot). Good, but not in high quantities, as it can get to be dead.

94.   Embargo
I'm convinced that this is a really under-utilized card. The problem is that whatever you are blocking them from, you have spent some time getting this, so you have lost some of your potential advantage. Still, curses really hurt.

93.   Jester
A pretty swingy card. Giving curses can be nice. Most generally, I think you'd best prefer stealing good stuff, though. Or copying it. Mainly this is because you are skipping whatever card of theirs you hit, too. So giving them a curse is somewhat mitigated by skipping their estate. And hitting copper, well, it's not nothing, but if that's all you do, it's not such a great pick-up. Usually.

92.   Library
Draw to X extraordinaire. Being able to skip actions, you think that's only for BM, but it helps a lot in engines, as you can filter for what you need - more villages or more draw. Also, with enough villages, you can play village-village-terminal-this, and get lots and lots of value. But of course, this doesn't stack so well, generally. Lots of combos though (squire, hamlet, festival, fishing village, etc.)

91.   Moat
Yeah, I think moat is good, even in 2 player. I mean, it's not really about the reaction. Not totally, anyway. Drawing two cards isn't so bad. You really can make an engine out of villages and these, if you have enough support (generally strong trashing). Okay, so I mean, it's not the best thing ever, but it only costs 2, which is pretty good value. And then that defense. I mean, attacks are just pretty strong in a lot of cases, and being able to stop a good percentage, even if it's a minority, is just nice. It's a nice engine card.

[ftl]

Market definitely fits as the quintessential average card.

[blueblimp]

I think Peddler is underrated here. (Versus, say, Moat.) It's not hard these days to get the action chain and +buys needed to spam Peddlers. Imagine hypothetically if only one player had access to the Peddler pile: that player would have a HUGE advantage on many boards, often pile-driving the Peddlers without much deviation from normal strategy.

I agree that Peddler may often not feel like a super strong card, but that's because both players have access to them.

[markusin]

91.   Moat
Yeah, I think moat is good, even in 2 player. I mean, it's not really about the reaction. Not totally, anyway. Drawing two cards isn't so bad. You really can make an engine out of villages and these, if you have enough support (generally strong trashing). Okay, so I mean, it's not the best thing ever, but it only costs 2, which is pretty good value. And then that defense. I mean, attacks are just pretty strong in a lot of cases, and being able to stop a good percentage, even if it's a minority, is just nice. It's a nice engine card.

I knew you'd declare Moat a good engine card. I've been impressed a few times by Moat-heavy engines. Being able to defend against attacks in the most overt way possible is a neat reward for having faith in the little thing.

Also, Market in the middle: Coincidence?

[Just a Rube]

It's not hard these days to get the action chain and +buys needed to spam Peddlers.

There's an interesting question: how have relative strengths of cards evolved over time?

I don't mean Set X has stronger cards than Set Y, I mean how has Card X gotten stronger/weaker with the addition of Set Y?

Put another way, if this list were to pretend Guilds/Dark Ages didn't exist, then how would the relative order of the earlier cards  have changed?

[ednever]

I think Peddler is underrated here. (Versus, say, Moat.) It's not hard these days to get the action chain and +buys needed to spam Peddlers. Imagine hypothetically if only one player had access to the Peddler pile: that player would have a HUGE advantage on many boards, often pile-driving the Peddlers without much deviation from normal strategy.

I agree that Peddler may often not feel like a super strong card, but that's because both players have access to them.

I agree with this. Almost.
I think Moat is very under rated (about in the right place on this list), but Peddler is a power card in many cases. Like cases when it's cost is zero.

There are only a few cards where I worry about losing the split 4/6:
- Peddler
- Minion
- Fools Gold
- Grand Markets
- sometimes Wharf
- sometimes Lab or Alchemist
- VP cards (Duchies in Duke games, Gardens, sometimes Silk Roads)

There may be others, but that's all I can think of.
I don't think that's a list of the best cards in the game (It doesn't include the cursers or King's Court), but its a pretty good sign.

Ed

[scott_pilgrim]

There are only a few cards where I worry about losing the split 4/6:
- Peddler
- Minion
- Fools Gold
- Grand Markets
- sometimes Wharf
- sometimes Lab or Alchemist
- VP cards (Duchies in Duke games, Gardens, sometimes Silk Roads)

When you lose the Duchy split 4/6, you know your opponent is cheating.
Yes, I know there is multi-player.

Moat is way overrated here.  I understand that it can be a decent terminal drawer in thin engines sometimes.  But you need some pretty serious trashing in order for Moat to be good in that kind of case, and lots of spammable villages.  It doesn't seem like you can use it effectively as the main source of draw very often.  And blocking attacks is not great.  If Moat didn't have the top half of the card (if it were just a dead card that blocks attacks), you would almost never buy it.  If you manage to draw it at the right time against a discarding attack, it saves you a card.  If you manage to draw it at the right time against a junker, then it's a junk card that saved you from taking in a junk card, so you need to have it block at least twice for it to be a worthwhile buy (and even then, it's not necessarily worth it for $2/a buy).  But it's pretty hard to get your Moat to line up with your opponent's attack, so that's not really a huge advantage.

Sure, Moat is probably underrated, but better than Gardens, Smithy, Peddler, a bunch of other cards that I'm too lazy to look up?  I really can't see that being the case.

[blueblimp]

There are only a few cards where I worry about losing the split 4/6:

See, I wouldn't care much about losing the Peddler split 4-6. So what, you have $2 more in your deck. Usually not that big a deal. But Peddler is the second-most spammable card in the game provided you have +buys, so it's not unusual to lose the split, say, 2-8 even if we're both trying to buy them.

[Young Nick]

There are only a few cards where I worry about losing the split 4/6:

Don't forget Governor! Even sometimes losing the Village split can be tough if there is only one source of +actions. But that's rarer. Losing Governors is so devastating.

[JacquesTheBard]

I honestly had moat near the bottom of the base cards, but ignoring it has really screwed me over in the past, especially with witch in 4 player. The news that I've underrated it honestly doesn't surprise me. The better-than-smithy part, though, is quite a surprise. Funny, it seems like this section is full of cards from base Dominion.

[SCSN]

And blocking attacks is not great.  If Moat didn't have the top half of the card (if it were just a dead card that blocks attacks), you would almost never buy it.  If you manage to draw it at the right time against a discarding attack, it saves you a card.  If you manage to draw it at the right time against a junker, then it's a junk card that saved you from taking in a junk card

I think Moat is a must-buy in Knights and Cultist games even if you never plan to play it for draw.

[HiveMindEmulator]

There are only a few cards where I worry about losing the split 4/6:
- Peddler
- Minion
- Fools Gold
- Grand Markets
- sometimes Wharf
- sometimes Lab or Alchemist
- VP cards (Duchies in Duke games, Gardens, sometimes Silk Roads)

I actually think it's only VP cards and Highway, maybe Wharf. The other cards are okay to lose the split 6-4. 7-3 is when you really get into problems.

[brokoli]

I also think Moat is too high. I've used moat in engines for the draw often, but that was more because there were strong engine cards in the kingdom and engine was clearly the best path to take.

[WanderingWinder]

90.   Oracle
This card is, I think, a bit better than Smithy. You get to filter, which is pretty nice, because there's usually something you are looking to find. Sometimes that's more draw, sometimes that's a village, sometimes it's the exact right amount of money. Okay, it also gets significantly fewer cards. But there's the attack, which isn't nothing by any means, though harder to use than your own filtering. And it costs a little less, though that's not super important. Anyway, it's a high-skill card that sims can't get right.

89.   Develop
This is a card that was once largely considered the worst 3-cost. My opinion has changed, at least. It's basically remodel but bigger for a lot of engines - the main use of remodel in engines, to my mind, is to get useful cards out of your estates, then wait around and not do much, maybe have some gold-province tricks, but not too often. This does that almost as well, without the endgame plusses, but with a way useful midgame for a lot of decks. Okay, this is perhaps a bit of an overswing of the pendulum, but it's a solid card, anyway.

88.   Ironworks
This is *the* premium rush card, basically just making all kinds of such strategies viable. But it can also be explorer-like (you get $1 less generally) with for much cheaper and some endgame flexibility, and most importantly, it gains engine components non-terminally for you. As most engines have something they want for 4 or less, this is really nice.

87.   Crossroads
Sometimes this is just a village which doesn't give many (or any cards) but an extra action. Sometimes it's an insanely good terminal drawer. Often it's a village that unreliably gives cards and you can't snack up in large multiples. Still, usually useful, and sometimes very good.

86.   Pillage
The trick with this card is when to get it. But the attack is, I think, the best one in the game (probably why you only get to use it once), and two spoils is not bad - especially if you aren't going to have that much longer of a game.

85.   Native Village
If you pick up sparingly, it can be almost as good card-wise as village. It's basically never worse than half-draw even if you pick up every time there's a card (which you shouldn't). Plus you get to filter, and it's cheap. But the reason it's here is that it has pretty good mega-turn possibilities, and the pseudo-trashing can be nice too.

84.   Lighthouse
This tends to be the most reliable defense against attacks, it's very cheap, it's an action (which is sometimes bad, often good), and virtually as good economically as silver. Just a nice, solid card.

83.    Nobles
Smithy with 2 VP. And it can be necro, too. Hey, it's for the 2 VP. No, really. Having 6 more of these than your opponent literally matches the points from a 2 province deficit. And smithy is something you are often looking for, plus it's not totally dead to get oodles of them... Okay, it hardly ever just wins the game for you, either though.

82.   Plaza
Again, a little hard to tell how good this is. Tokens are good. And if you have a copper around, it's almost always worth it to turn it into a token. Well, it's a village, that's the big thing. Pretty nice with draw-to-X, it must be said.

81.   Festival
Truly, the lack of a card hurts this pretty badly. Having said that... it's basically always better than silver, woodcutter without terminal issues, and everything an engine needs sans the cards - which are, okay, the most important thing. Well, usually not the card you *want* as your primary village, but you can make it work, and almost always a solid addition to your deck.

80.   Warehouse
The sifter of choice. Drawing first is a big boon. Of course you can't stack these forever, but it has a very nice role in most decks - the only really exceptions are when you have very good trashing (obsoletes this), and terminal-draw BM.

79.    Candlestick Maker
Maybe I'm just overrating the new hotness here. Probably. But pawn and herbalist aren't bad, and this is very often better. Cheap non-terminal buy is nice, tokens are nice, and well, most decks prefer this to silver at some point at least...

[brokoli]

Wow, very surprised by the position of some cards here.

Develop : I had recently many games where I opened develop and won with success. The more I play with it, the more I think it's a very good card and I am agreeably surprised to see it that high.

Oracle : I would put it higher, because I think this is a great opening card that work well for both big money and engines. Very flexible and when played well the attack really hurts.

Pillage : This is the Dark ages card I still don't understand at all, but seems very weak to me. A strategy article would be welcome, because I have no idea how to play it.

Nobles, Warehouse and Native village are way too high in my opinion, especially nobles. I think too often you spend too much time getting nobles when a fast strategy with another draw card (like Hunting grounds) work better.

[dondon151]

Yay, Develop!

[Young Nick]

Wow, I can't help but think that Lighthouse and Plaza are underrated while Nobles is surely way overrated.

[brokoli]

Oh yeah, I would put lighthouse much higher too. It's just the best defense in the game.

[soulnet]

I've had several disagreements so far, but I think Candlestick Maker is the only one that deserved a post. Before I go on with this kind-of-rant, let me say that I do not have a lot of experience with Guidls, because I've been on vacation for a good percentage of the time Guilds was out and not playing that often, so I can be way off, but hey, you can discard my words easily anyway.

I think CM is underrated here. Coin tokens are great, and non-terminal coin token is even bigger. I think this for a similar reason that non-terminal VP tokens would be strong. Ok, coin tokens are not AS strong as VP tokens, but I feel that they can be compared with 1/2 VP chip some times (all you need is an engine that produces many buys, and stock up on coin tokens). And this gives non-terminal +Buy too, so its pretty easy to stock up on CM while getting some drawing engine or trashing or sifting going, and then take all the green in just one shuffle, so your engine does not need to be resilient.