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Author Topic: Baker and game lenght  (Read 2938 times)

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brokoli

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Baker and game lenght
« on: June 26, 2013, 05:52:06 am »
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I don't know if there are some stats for this, but do you think baker makes the games shorter ? (in term of turns)
A strong opening is always very important for the effectiveness of a strategy.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 05:57:59 am »
+4

Baker BM with coin token start gets to 4 Provinces in 14.5 turns
Baker BM without coin token start gets to 4 Provinces in 15.2 turns
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Davio

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 06:03:27 am »
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So 0.7, that's a pretty significant swing.

Still, with engines I suspect it's going to be more than 0.7 due to their more cascading nature.
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Awaclus

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 07:50:40 am »
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What about terminal draw/BM? Probably not a huge improvement for Smithy/BM, but Wharf/BM games are likely to get much faster.

Also, Ironworks rushes.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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ConMan

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 09:32:15 pm »
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Talking completely off the cuff, I would say that Baker definitely has a strong effect on the speed of any strategy, for two reasons - the first is the opening coin token, which as pointed out means you can buy your key cards faster; the second is the delayable-Treasury, which helps smooth out unevenness of coin. It probably has the most effect in early game, where you haven't got your economy up to full power yet, and late game, where greening can cause your key cards to miss each other more (unless you've got a mega-turn strategy so you only green on the last turn); it will also help many engines mid-game, with the exception of draw-your-deck ones that are able to make full use of the deck's economy.
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shMerker

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 01:12:16 pm »
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Asking if buying baker will speed the game up seems like asking for tautological answers like "buying Baker will speed the game up in situations where Baker is a good card to buy". Of course for the majority of cards "a good card to buy" is by definition one that speeds the game up. Dominion is a race. If the things you are doing don't get you to the finish line first you should be doing something else.

The same thing applies to the extra starting coin. If you are using it correctly (again, barring attacks) it should speed the game up.
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philosophyguy

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 01:37:20 pm »
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Asking if buying baker will speed the game up seems like asking for tautological answers like "buying Baker will speed the game up in situations where Baker is a good card to buy". Of course for the majority of cards "a good card to buy" is by definition one that speeds the game up. Dominion is a race. If the things you are doing don't get you to the finish line first you should be doing something else.

Yes but not quite. Remember that slogs are very common games as well. Many power cards in fact push the game towards having a slower tempo (junking attacks being the obvious example).

Baker is interesting because it speeds up the game in most deck types: engine, BM, and slog. (Not so much combo decks, unless there's a new combo I missed.) The money smoothing is really useful in BM and slogs, and the delayable coin is really useful in engines for the endgame.
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Awaclus

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2013, 03:18:32 pm »
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Asking if buying baker will speed the game up seems like asking for tautological answers like "buying Baker will speed the game up in situations where Baker is a good card to buy". Of course for the majority of cards "a good card to buy" is by definition one that speeds the game up. Dominion is a race. If the things you are doing don't get you to the finish line first you should be doing something else.

The same thing applies to the extra starting coin. If you are using it correctly (again, barring attacks) it should speed the game up.
But does Baker, by being in the kingdom, shorten the game more than the average kingdom card? Probably yes.
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StrongRhino

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Re: Baker and game lenght
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2013, 04:17:22 pm »
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Asking if buying baker will speed the game up seems like asking for tautological answers like "buying Baker will speed the game up in situations where Baker is a good card to buy". Of course for the majority of cards "a good card to buy" is by definition one that speeds the game up. Dominion is a race. If the things you are doing don't get you to the finish line first you should be doing something else.

Yes but not quite. Remember that slogs are very common games as well. Many power cards in fact push the game towards having a slower tempo (junking attacks being the obvious example).

Baker is interesting because it speeds up the game in most deck types: engine, BM, and slog. (Not so much combo decks, unless there's a new combo I missed.) The money smoothing is really useful in BM and slogs, and the delayable coin is really useful in engines for the endgame.
But power cards that make the game slower do get you to the finish line first. It doesn't matter how long, as long as its before the opponents.
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