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Dubdubdubdub

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Treasure Chest Expansion
« on: June 24, 2013, 02:02:35 am »
+5

Latest versions of the cards are in reply #11. Decided not to edit into the original post, to keep it clear.


I got inspired, so why not try my hand at a Treasure Chest expansion? One typical card for each expansion.
I must say, some may be a bit rushed. Pretty happy about most of the others, though. Fire at will!

Base:
Windmill
Action - $3
+1 Action
You may discard a card.
Draw up to 5 cards


Intrigue:
Lady-in-Waiting
Action/Attack- $5
Choose one:
+3 Cards, +1 Buy
or
Gain two silvers, each other player gains a curse.


Seaside:
Buoy
Action/Duration - $2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card. Cards that share its type cost one less next turn, but not less than $0.


Alchemy:
Perpetuum Mobile
Action - $2P
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Discard down to 5 cards in hand.


Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
$2
+1 Buy
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain 1 VP instead.


Cornucopia:
Illusionist
Action - $4
+1 Action
You may discard any number of differently named cards. For each card you discarded: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, or +1 Buy


Hinterlands:
Land run
Action/Attack - $5
+$2
+3 Cards
Every player (including you) discards down to 3 cards.
When you buy this, reveal your hand. For every victory card you revealed, gain a silver.


Dark Ages:
Arsonist
Action/Attack/Looter - $3
+2 Actions
Choose one:
Each other player gains a Ruins
or
Trash this and gain a Bonfire.

Bonfire - Action
Return this to the Bonfire pile and trash any number of cards from your hand. Gain two Spoils.
This is not in the supply.


Guilds:
Landlord
Reaction/Victory - $4+
2VP
When you overpay for a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, you may add $2 to the amount you overpaid.
You may overpay for this. If you do, gain another copy of this for each $2 you overpaid.
(setup: there are 6 copies per player in the supply, with a minimum of 12 copies).


Promos:
Saint
Action - $4
Trash this. If you do, put an action card from your hand on your Saint mat. Whenever you play an action card, add +1 Card, +1 Action to its description if you have at least one copy of it on your Saint mat. Return the cards to your deck at the end of the game.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 06:05:27 pm by Dubdubdubdub »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 12:19:41 pm »
+2

Many of these are reasonable. I'll give my reaction to each of them, and forgive me if I'm a bit harsh. That's just how I roll.

Base:
Windmill
Action - $3
+1 Action
You may discard a card.
Draw up to 5 cards

This seems fine, if a little unexciting. It's meant to go in the Base Set, though, so perhaps bland is the order of the day. It steps on Cellar and Library's toes a bit, but it's probably different enough. My main concern is that it doesn't look that useful outside of games with discard attacks and disappearing Actions. Even if it is, that's not a great thing in the Base Set. Chancellor already causes confusion there.

Overall, I'd prefer a card that was less similar than the existing Base Set cards. (Also, the Base Set needs more $5 cards.) If you keep it, I'd make the discarding mandatory.

Intrigue:
Lady-in-Waiting
Action/Attack- $5
Choose one:
+3 Cards, +1 Buy
or
Gain two silvers, each other player gains a curse.

Intrigue already has two cards that can give out Curses. This is definitely an interesting card, but I'd prefer a different attack effect.

Seaside:
Buoy
Action/Duration - $2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card. Cards that share its type cost one less next turn, but not less than $0.

Very cool idea. Do you mean 'cards that share a type with it' or 'cards that share all its types'? I prefer the former, personally. It might be more compelling as a terminal $5 card that lowered costs by $2, but that also might be too abusable with Throne Room, etc. Definitely test it as-is.

Alchemy:
Perpetuum Mobile
Action - $2P
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Discard down to 5 cards in hand.

Not a fan. For one thing, it seems to really conflict with several Alchemy cards. Scrying Pool, Apothecary, Apprentice, and Alchemist are all about getting a large hand size. Even for the cards this combos with, it's marginal. I guess you could discard Actions from your hand so Golem could find them? And unless you're discarding only Victory and Curse cards, you're probably losing more than you're gaining with Philosopher's Stone.

Also, any new Potion cost card should really wow me. They're expensive and hard to get. You can do things with Potion-cost cards that you can't get away with on a normal card. See Golem and Possession, for example. This card is just too vanilla by far.

Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
$2
+1 Buy
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain 1 VP instead.

This basically just allows for infinite VP churning engines without ever approaching an end game condition. It's way, way easier to use than Monument since it's a Treasure/Reaction rather than a terminal Action.

Cornucopia:
Illusionist
Action - $4
+1 Action
You may discard any number of differently named cards. For each card you discarded: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, or +1 Buy

I have two issues with this card. First, the differently-named bit seems very tacked on (and you'd need to say, "You may reveal then discard"). Second, do you choose the bonuses one at a time, or all at once? I assume one at a time. It's a little confusing.

Even once the card is understood, I see it creating huge amounts of AP. It's like a mega-Pawn. "OK, I choose +1 Card. Now I need to reevaluate my new hand before choosing another bonus. Hmm…" Once the player has decided to stop drawing cards, the rest is a bit faster. Still, I'd reduce the number of options.

I notice this is the third non-terminal discard card in the set. Was that an intentional theme?

Hinterlands:
Land run
Action/Attack - $5
+$2
+3 Cards
Every player (including you) discards down to 3 cards.
When you buy this, reveal your hand. For every victory card you revealed, gain a silver.

Cute on-buy effect. I always enjoy an opportunistic buy. I don't see why it can't be on-gain, though. You could always add "you may" to avoid mandatory Silver gain if someone were to Ambassador it to you.

What is with the self-discarding, though? A card that makes you discard down to 3 cards is pretty harsh, even with the +$2. It probably seems worse than it is, but that in itself can kill a card. You should playtest it. Maybe it's not as harsh as it looks, but I think most players aren't going to think discarding down to 3 cards is fun.

Dark Ages:
Arsonist
Action/Attack/Looter - $3
+2 Actions
Choose one:
Each other player gains a Ruins
or
Trash this and gain a Bonfire.

Bonfire - Action
Return this to the Bonfire pile and trash any number of cards from your hand. Gain two Spoils.
This is not in the supply.

Even though it's Ruins instead of Curses, a $3 junking attack is harsh. And it's non-terminal! So everybody opens with 2 of these, junks until the Ruins run out, then converts them to Bonfires and tries to trash the Ruins, rebuilding with the Spoils. Cute idea, but more than any other junker, this seems like a mandatory opener. If you choose not to participate, your deck will be instantly ruined and your opponent will get to use all of their trashing on Coppers and Estates. It seems even worse than Sea Hag or Ambassador in this regard.

Guilds:
Landlord
Reaction/Victory - $4+
2VP
When you overpay for a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, you may add $2 to the amount you overpaid.
You may overpay for this. If you do, gain another copy of this for each $2 you overpaid.
(setup: there are 6 copies per player in the supply, with a minimum of 12 copies).

A little niche, perhaps? It allows you to completely ruin your deck in the endgame with a few massive VP gains. Maybe that's interesting? I guess it combos in a neat way with other overpay cards, but that's a really specific interaction which only works with 4 other cards in the entire game. I'd prefer a Reaction that got you Coin tokens.

Promos:
Saint
Action - $4
Trash this. If you do, put an action card from your hand on your Saint mat. Whenever you play an action card, add +1 Card, +1 Action to its description if you have at least one copy of it on your Saint mat. Return the cards to your deck at the end of the game.

Neat idea. +1 Card/+1 Action may be a bit much. I'd try +1 Card first and go from there. Instead of adding the effect to the description, just say, "When you play an Action card, +1 Card if a you have a copy of that card on your Saint mat."
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 01:22:38 pm »
0

Many of these are reasonable. I'll give my reaction to each of them, and forgive me if I'm a bit harsh. That's just how I roll.

You're not harsh at all - I like your comments a lot, and I agree with most.

Quote
Base:
Windmill
Action - $3
+1 Action
You may discard a card.
Draw up to 5 cards

This seems fine, if a little unexciting. It's meant to go in the Base Set, though, so perhaps bland is the order of the day. It steps on Cellar and Library's toes a bit, but it's probably different enough. My main concern is that it doesn't look that useful outside of games with discard attacks and disappearing Actions. Even if it is, that's not a great thing in the Base Set. Chancellor already causes confusion there.

Overall, I'd prefer a card that was less similar than the existing Base Set cards. (Also, the Base Set needs more $5 cards.) If you keep it, I'd make the discarding mandatory.
My intention definitely was to make a card that was as vanilla as I could, while still making something new. I love engines with disappearing actions, so I was pretty pleased with this. At first, it didn't have the discard part, but obviously it would never be played a lot of games. Good point about that it has to obviously be good. What about: +1 Action, discard 3 or fewer cards, draw up to 6? Costing $6? Base could use a strong $6.

Quote
Intrigue:
Lady-in-Waiting
Action/Attack- $5
Choose one:
+3 Cards, +1 Buy
or
Gain two silvers, each other player gains a curse.

Intrigue already has two cards that can give out Curses. This is definitely an interesting card, but I'd prefer a different attack effect.
I tried to make cards that were very typical for the expansion they represent, without giving too much thought about how the cards would fit said sets (just a little: the cost-reducer is not in Intrigue or Hinterlands, for example).
My set needs a curser and a drawer and I'm pretty happy with this card. I'm afraid it's hard to fit into any of the other expansions. What do others think? It would play very differently from Torturer or Swindler (it's very BM-y).

Quote
Seaside:
Buoy
Action/Duration - $2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card. Cards that share its type cost one less next turn, but not less than $0.

Very cool idea. Do you mean 'cards that share a type with it' or 'cards that share all its types'? I prefer the former, personally. It might be more compelling as a terminal $5 card that lowered costs by $2, but that also might be too abusable with Throne Room, etc. Definitely test it as-is.
Thanks! I did mean the former, the rewording is a good suggestion. I like that it is TR-able now, and its low cost fits the expansion.

Quote
Alchemy:
Perpetuum Mobile
Action - $2P
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Discard down to 5 cards in hand.

Not a fan. For one thing, it seems to really conflict with several Alchemy cards. Scrying Pool, Apothecary, Apprentice, and Alchemist are all about getting a large hand size. Even for the cards this combos with, it's marginal. I guess you could discard Actions from your hand so Golem could find them? And unless you're discarding only Victory and Curse cards, you're probably losing more than you're gaining with Philosopher's Stone.

Also, any new Potion cost card should really wow me. They're expensive and hard to get. You can do things with Potion-cost cards that you can't get away with on a normal card. See Golem and Possession, for example. This card is just too vanilla by far.
Very good points. This was one of the first cards I came up with. Filtering cards are fun, but this set already has Windmill, Illusionist and Land Run (most of which will change, but still).
I actually think that Saint (the proposed Promo-card) would fill this slot much better, including the potion cost and the name. It's weird and strong enough for the potion cost, and an extreme engine card. I could just drop the 'promo'-slot. What do you think?


Quote
Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
$2
+1 Buy
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain 1 VP instead.

This basically just allows for infinite VP churning engines without ever approaching an end game condition. It's way, way easier to use than Monument since it's a Treasure/Reaction rather than a terminal Action.
Don't really agree with you here. It's pretty expensive and the above-the-line part stimulates buying (in which case it won't be in your hand to reveal). I think buying this to go for a VP-engine is not as viable as it looks. How would you abuse this card? If it is really easy, I *could* make it reveal and discard.

Quote
Cornucopia:
Illusionist
Action - $4
+1 Action
You may discard any number of differently named cards. For each card you discarded: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, or +1 Buy

I have two issues with this card. First, the differently-named bit seems very tacked on (and you'd need to say, "You may reveal then discard"). Second, do you choose the bonuses one at a time, or all at once? I assume one at a time. It's a little confusing.

Even once the card is understood, I see it creating huge amounts of AP. It's like a mega-Pawn. "OK, I choose +1 Card. Now I need to reevaluate my new hand before choosing another bonus. Hmm…" Once the player has decided to stop drawing cards, the rest is a bit faster. Still, I'd reduce the number of options.

I notice this is the third non-terminal discard card in the set. Was that an intentional theme?
Yeah, this card needs work. This and Landlord are the least imaginative of the set.
To be clear: it's supposed to work like Pawn: you discard a number of cards, you choose the total bonus, and then draw. I think it's main issue is in keeping track. Cornucopia deserves a lot better, I love that set.
I like Schneau's Polymath-idea, but I was thinking: what if every card has a very minimal bonus, and this card gives you the sum of the one you played and the one on top of the pile in the supply?

+2 Cards
+2 Actions
+$2
+2 Buys
Gain a card costing up to $4

Combining half-bonuses makes the card even more variable. The 5 different cards would have different names, I think, like with Knights.

If the pile is empty, each of the bonuses is improved by 1.
What do you think?

Quote
Hinterlands:
Land run
Action/Attack - $5
+$2
+3 Cards
Every player (including you) discards down to 3 cards.
When you buy this, reveal your hand. For every victory card you revealed, gain a silver.

Cute on-buy effect. I always enjoy an opportunistic buy. I don't see why it can't be on-gain, though. You could always add "you may" to avoid mandatory Silver gain if someone were to Ambassador it to you.

What is with the self-discarding, though? A card that makes you discard down to 3 cards is pretty harsh, even with the +$2. It probably seems worse than it is, but that in itself can kill a card. You should playtest it. Maybe it's not as harsh as it looks, but I think most players aren't going to think discarding down to 3 cards is fun.
Glad that you like the on-buy, so do I. I think it's very Hinterlands-y :).
What if the draw is upped to 4? It should be a very strong sifter. In a deck with a lot of silvers, this should do the trick of getting up to $8.

Quote
Dark Ages:
Arsonist
Action/Attack/Looter - $3
+2 Actions
Choose one:
Each other player gains a Ruins
or
Trash this and gain a Bonfire.

Bonfire - Action
Return this to the Bonfire pile and trash any number of cards from your hand. Gain two Spoils.
This is not in the supply.

Even though it's Ruins instead of Curses, a $3 junking attack is harsh. And it's non-terminal! So everybody opens with 2 of these, junks until the Ruins run out, then converts them to Bonfires and tries to trash the Ruins, rebuilding with the Spoils. Cute idea, but more than any other junker, this seems like a mandatory opener. If you choose not to participate, your deck will be instantly ruined and your opponent will get to use all of their trashing on Coppers and Estates. It seems even worse than Sea Hag or Ambassador in this regard.

I was pretty pleased with how much of DA I could cram into this card without it getting too crazy. But you make a good point: I'm not sure if it's very fun, really. Making it cost $4 would help a lot, but still. I do like the village-junker; that part also makes that at some points you won't upgrade to Bonfire. What if I marry it to Mountebank? Cost $5, +2 Actions. Every other player may discard a Ruins. If they don't, they gain a Ruins and a Copper." The rest would stay the same.

Quote
Guilds:
Landlord
Reaction/Victory - $4+
2VP
When you overpay for a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, you may add $2 to the amount you overpaid.
You may overpay for this. If you do, gain another copy of this for each $2 you overpaid.
(setup: there are 6 copies per player in the supply, with a minimum of 12 copies).

A little niche, perhaps? It allows you to completely ruin your deck in the endgame with a few massive VP gains. Maybe that's interesting? I guess it combos in a neat way with other overpay cards, but that's a really specific interaction which only works with 4 other cards in the entire game. I'd prefer a Reaction that got you Coin tokens.
Wasn't even happy with this when I wrote it down. I really like the reaction bit though, but to make it viable, the card needs an overpay effect itself. Maybe it shouldn't be a victory card - I kind of decided it had to be, because Guilds lacked it, but I can't come up with something other than VP/coins, which I really don't like.

Quote
Promos:
Saint
Action - $4
Trash this. If you do, put an action card from your hand on your Saint mat. Whenever you play an action card, add +1 Card, +1 Action to its description if you have at least one copy of it on your Saint mat. Return the cards to your deck at the end of the game.

Neat idea. +1 Card/+1 Action may be a bit much. I'd try +1 Card first and go from there. Instead of adding the effect to the description, just say, "When you play an Action card, +1 Card if a you have a copy of that card on your Saint mat."
I'm thinking if I make this $2P (and replace Perpetuum Mobile with it), the +1 Action can stay. It fits Alchemy very well that way. I think I'd sooner drop the +1 Card or bump up the price. Good rewording!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 01:26:26 pm by Dubdubdubdub »
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 02:08:21 pm »
0

Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
$2
+1 Buy
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain 1 VP instead.

How about when you reduce your deck to Dowry and some cheap buy (like Market Square) and buy a lot of Coppers every turn?

Also the card would need to clarify that taking the Victory tokens keeps you from doing the actual gaining.
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 02:18:10 pm »
0

Forgot to write i like how you did Saint. I have been looking for something like it to solve a problem i have with one of my cards. Really nice cards overall. I expected a VP card for Intrigue, because choices are very common by now, but well.
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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 04:35:07 pm »
+2

Personally, I think a good treasure chest would mix components, like potion cost duration cards or something.
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 05:20:38 pm »
0

Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
$2
+1 Buy
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain 1 VP instead.

How about when you reduce your deck to Dowry and some cheap buy (like Market Square) and buy a lot of Coppers every turn?
You're both probably right, I discussed this with a friend of mine as well. In your case, you have a deck that steadily produces about 5 or 6 VP per turn. That's like the golden deck, except it doesn't clear the board. That's not super strong, but of course it's quite possible to supercharge it. Maybe it should have you trash the card you don't gain, so the game will end at some point.
The other option of course, is to let you discard dowry for the effect. It could well end up as such.

I would like it to be as crazy as Goons can be, though - it is a typical Prosperity card, after all. Because I really like superturns, I would like to playtest it first. (or someone should convince me ;))


Forgot to write i like how you did Saint. I have been looking for something like it to solve a problem i have with one of my cards. Really nice cards overall. I expected a VP card for Intrigue, because choices are very common by now, but well.
Thank you! I'm thinking about dropping the price to P; because what is the difference with 2P really, if it's real cost is in opportunity?


Personally, I think a good treasure chest would mix components, like potion cost duration cards or something.
I considered that - I would love some overpay Looters or on-buy cards that care about variety. But I wanted a simple, confined challenge. Maybe later :) (does inspire me for the Guilds card though: maybe an 'A' Action, and for every $2 you overpay, gain a 'B' Action, which isn't in the supply. That's not too much Dark Ages, is it?)


I will make a neat update with all the suggested changes - probably tomorrow.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 05:24:05 pm by Dubdubdubdub »
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 05:34:28 pm »
0

Hm, considering Dowry: I just reread common mistake #19 in Rinkwork's playbook. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=699.0

Really not doable? As-is, it only works if you don't play it, which is quite a sacrifice. Making it trash the card seems like a mandatory change.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 05:37:45 pm »
+1

For Windmill, I disagree that a card needs to be obviously good.  Moreover, Windmill looks pretty good at face value to me.  Even without discarding attacks etc., Windmill is essentially a $3 Lab whenever you have a victory card in hand, which is pretty nice.
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 06:42:07 pm »
0

Hm, considering Dowry: I just reread common mistake #19 in Rinkwork's playbook. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=699.0

Really not doable? As-is, it only works if you don't play it, which is quite a sacrifice. Making it trash the card seems like a mandatory change.

Yup, that's a pretty helpful guide. I think with the trashing Dowry works - or at least if it doesn't, it's not because of #19 as such ;)
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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 03:19:23 pm »
+2

I got inspired, so why not try my hand at a Treasure Chest expansion? One typical card for each expansion.
I must say, some may be a bit rushed. Pretty happy about most of the others, though. Fire at will!

Base:
Windmill
Action - $3
+1 Action
You may discard a card.
Draw up to 5 cards
Base set, to me, wants to be generic. But you still don't want boring. This is fine, I guess, but actually it strikes me as a bit complicated mind-wise for base. Okay, that's going to be pretty hard to get around, I guess. Ok, the card itself. It looks pretty strong early, but not broken. I would guess 4 cost - if you have any green, this is effectively as good as lab.

Quote
Intrigue:
Lady-in-Waiting
Action/Attack- $5
Choose one:
+3 Cards, +1 Buy
or
Gain two silvers, each other player gains a curse.
Intrigue isn't all choices to me, but the thing about the choice cards is that there is usually some connection between the choices. This seems like two cards slapped together. Beyond that, the second half is bonkers strong. Given that there's options (and the other option is a very strong $5 too), I have to think that this would be the strongest $5 out there. Maybe at $6?

Quote
Seaside:
Buoy
Action/Duration - $2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card. Cards that share its type cost one less next turn, but not less than $0.
Share a type with it is the better wording, yeah. But my real concern is that this doesn't actually work like you want it to. 'next turn' is inherently your left-hand-opponent's turn (barring outpost/possession shenanigans). Ok, let's assume you change it to 'your next turn'. I also don't know what happens to the card on this after next turn (it... gets discarded?), and I don't like that it doesn't do anything for you now and further dislike that it doesn't do anything for you at the beginning of your next turn, like... every other duration!

Quote
Alchemy:
Perpetuum Mobile
Action - $2P
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Discard down to 5 cards in hand.
Ok, so Alchemy, you went with potion-cost, and an action. Fine. Alchemy usually has something more than that, but okay whatever, you don't need it. The card. Maybe needs to cost 3p. Alright, it's just like warehouse, but you end up with one more card (usually). That makes it like a cross between warehouse and lab... actually not too different from your base set card. REALLY similar, actually, though draw first should be better. The problem is that village+terminal+this might be really good. Then again, you can't jsut grab tons of these super fast. So I actually like it.

Quote
Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
$2
+1 Buy
When you would gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, gain 1 VP instead.
This is like goons, really. Or the bottom is like the bottom of goons. Except, you can't multi-chain and you don't need to spend an action. And you don't get the money or buy or discard attack. But you also don't have to gain the card, holy cow, I am 'gaining' lots of copper with this. Oh, and it defends junkers, too. Further, it self-synergizes still - just always make sure you leave one back, the others aren't doing anything for you anyway.

Quote
Cornucopia:
Illusionist
Action - $4
+1 Action
You may discard any number of differently named cards. For each card you discarded: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1, or +1 Buy
Apart from feeling awkward, I actually think this could cost $2. Sure, it looks just better than cellar and secret chamber, but often you are getting rid of multiple copper/estate there. Plus they're not exactly world-beaters. But discarding is a steep price - I'd be pretty surprised if this warrants anything more than $3.

Quote
Hinterlands:
Land run
Action/Attack - $5
+$2
+3 Cards
Every player (including you) discards down to 3 cards.
When you buy this, reveal your hand. For every victory card you revealed, gain a silver.
Uh, wowgood? For BM, you get $2 plus the best 3 of 7 cards, which is going to quickly be good for province, plus a little discard attack. Well, maybe not SO good if your opponent does it, too, but ugh, this makes me feel like Ghost Ship would be exciting in comparison.

Quote
Dark Ages:
Arsonist
Action/Attack/Looter - $3
+2 Actions
Choose one:
Each other player gains a Ruins
or
Trash this and gain a Bonfire.

Bonfire - Action
Return this to the Bonfire pile and trash any number of cards from your hand. Gain two Spoils.
This is not in the supply.
Spammable ruins at 3 seems insanely good. But actually the thing I don't like about this is that it eventually gets you something which will eventually get you something which will be a one-shot gold. Too many hoops, too long for the payoff.

Quote
Guilds:
Landlord
Reaction/Victory - $4+
2VP
When you overpay for a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, you may add $2 to the amount you overpaid.
You may overpay for this. If you do, gain another copy of this for each $2 you overpaid.
(setup: there are 6 copies per player in the supply, with a minimum of 12 copies).
Sort of interesting, but it is too hard to self-synergize, and then it does wacky things on the other overpay. I don't actually like it referencing overpay like this, but maybe it's fine. I DO like the idea of chaining lots of reen card gains together for more points than curve, but also more clog.

Quote
Promos:
Saint
Action - $4
Trash this. If you do, put an action card from your hand on your Saint mat. Whenever you play an action card, add +1 Card, +1 Action to its description if you have at least one copy of it on your Saint mat. Return the cards to your deck at the end of the game.


I don't understand why promos need a treasure chest card, at all. Just make a new promo. Heck, the whole chest is basically a promo. Actually I haven't even read the card because of this, will go read it now. Ok, it let's you sac an action card to give all other actions that are the same the cantrip ability on top of what they have. So, the issue here is... well there are a couple. Do I cantrip before or after the main effect? And do I get cumulative bonuses from butting this on more than once? Power-wise, well it can make for some zany strong cards (monument, really any 5 cost or 6 cost is probably REALLY strong with this extra), but okay, it's a steep cost for expensive cards, and getting this with one of them to trash it and then massing enough of them MIGHT be hard enough to balance it. But cheap cards, that's your problem. Pearl Diver is better than the second-level city, which would be a 6. Pawn is insane. Duchess is an activated conspirator. Woodcutter is GM. Squire is better than bazaar OR better than worker's village, OR peddler which also gains silver. Hamlet is superman.

I think it would be MUCH better to give it the other two vanilla bonuses, as they can't go bananas nearly as easily, but it is still something nice. In any case, it's going to be best with cheap cards, so that you can connect them with this quickly enough and amass enough of them quickly enough.

Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 05:51:15 pm »
+1

Thanks for the feedback! I improved some of the cards and replaced some of the others. I’m a lot happier with Intrigue, Alchemy and Cornucopia now. Guilds is coming up nicely, too. Hinterlands and Dark Ages are still bugging me.

Quote
Base:
Windmill
Action - $3
+1 Action
You may discard a card.
Draw up to 5 cards.
I considered moving the original Perpetuum Mobile here, because it was so bland and it looked so much like this (as pointed out by WW). Decided against it, because I still love disappearing actions. And SirPeebles liked it! I kept the cost at $3 because they are very bad in multiples, so opening with doubles shouldn’t matter all that much (just gives you 1 early $5 hand, probably).

Quote
Intrigue:
Lady-in-Waiting
Action - $5
You may discard up to 3 cards. For each card discarded this way, choose one:
+2 Cards;
+2 Actions;
+1 Buy, +$1.
(Choices must be made at once, like with Pawn)

Mechanically, this has a bit of the original Illusionist, but it plays completely differently and I think it makes much more sense.
This can either be a sifting Village, a sifting Smithy or a sifting mini-Market (-1 Card, +1 Action). Is this too strong at $5?

Quote
Seaside:
Buoy
Action/Duration -$2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card. Cards that share a type with it cost one less on your next turn, but not less than $0.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

@WW: As far as I know, Duration cards get discarded in the cleanup phase of the final turn they have any effect in. I did add the +1 Buy for the next turn. That’s not just an aesthetic choice though; it makes the card a lot stronger.

Quote
Alchemy:
Perpetuum Mobile
Action - $5P
Trash this. If you do, put an action card from your hand on your Perpetuum Mobile mat.
When you play an action card you have a copy of on your Perpetuum Mobile mat: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

Instead of putting the price on $P, I decided to up it to a mid-game level. I made the opportunity cost immense, just to be able to keep the whole cantrip on. Is that worth it? Or should it cost $P and just be +1 Action?
Now it has a unique cost :) I added the $1 to make it viable in the endgame.

Quote
Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
+$2
+1 Buy
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand and set the gained card aside. If you do, gain 1VP. Discard the set aside cards at the end of your buy phase.
So yeah, this is just a wordy version of: ‘When you gain a card, you may reveal this and gain 1VP.’ Darn Secret Chamber for complicating reaction rules.
What do you think? Now you have to gain, making it a lot harder to exploit and running out piles. There’s always Watchtower, but Watchtower is insane with lots of cards :)

Quote
Cornucopia:
Performer: Illusionist
Action - $5
Play the effect outside the parentheses:
+2 Cards (+1 Card)
If the Performer pile is empty, play the effect in parentheses.
Play the top part of the card on the top of the Performer pile (outside the parentheses).
Above is one of 5 different Performers; there are 2 copies of each. These are the 5 different effects:
•   Illusionist: +2 Cards (+1 Card)
•   Trickster: +2 Actions (Inn on-buy effect)
•   Balladeer: +$2 (+$1)
•   Juggler:+1 Buy, +$1 (+1 Buy, +$1)
•   Conjurer: You may gain a card costing up to $4 (and another costing up to $6)
There are 5 different Performers, 2 copies of each. Each Performer gives you its own action first and the action of the Performer on the top of the pile.
When the pile runs out, every Performer gets a little better on his/her own.
Performer is part of the card name, I don’t think it needs to be a card type.

Quote
Hinterlands:
Land Run
Action/Attack - $6
Gain a silver, putting it into your hand. Every player (including you) discards down to 3 cards in hand.
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards. Otherwise: gain an Estate.
When you buy this, reveal your hand. For every victory card you revealed, gain a silver.

Wow, it’s really hard to come up with a good Hinterlands card. The last one was too boring and it felt like cheating to move the old Lady-in-Waiting to this spot.
What do you think? Compared to Margrave (which it might share too much space with), it is -1Buy and -2 Cards (but with sifting of 3 cards), and it’s +$2, +a silver gain, +on-buy effect and a harsher attack.
I think I need some input here. I still like the on-buy!

Quote
Dark Ages
Dark Ages needs something crazy that I haven’t come up with yet. A stronger, more expensive Arsonist/Bonfire won’t cut it (and as WW pointed out: the +2 Spoils were kind of tacked on).

Quote
Guilds:
Bank
Victory/Reaction - $3+
2 VP
When you overpay for a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +$2 to the amount you overpay.
You may overpay for this. Gain one Savings for every $1 you overpay.

Savings
Action, $0*
Return this to the Savings pile. If you do:   
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain 2 coin tokens.
This is not in the supply.
There’s 20 copies of Savings. Thematically, I would like it to be a treasure, but I don't want it to be too much like Spoils so I’d rather change the name.


So what do you think? Improvements, over all?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 05:53:23 pm by Dubdubdubdub »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 06:15:56 pm »
0

I think you're moving in the right direction! I'll read them all and comment later, but I wanted to talk about Performers briefly.

Quote
Cornucopia:
Performer: Illusionist
Action - $5
Play the effect outside the parentheses:
+2 Cards (+1 Card)
If the Performer pile is empty, play the effect in parentheses.
Play the top part of the card on the top of the Performer pile (outside the parentheses).
Above is one of 5 different Performers; there are 2 copies of each. These are the 5 different effects:
•   Illusionist: +2 Cards (+1 Card)
•   Trickster: +2 Actions (Inn on-buy effect)
•   Balladeer: +$2 (+$1)
•   Juggler:+1 Buy, +$1 (+1 Buy, +$1)
•   Conjurer: You may gain a card costing up to $4 (and another costing up to $6)
There are 5 different Performers, 2 copies of each. Each Performer gives you its own action first and the action of the Performer on the top of the pile.
When the pile runs out, every Performer gets a little better on his/her own.
Performer is part of the card name, I don’t think it needs to be a card type.

First of all, definitely make Performer a card type. It's way simpler. Second, the wording on these can be vastly simplified.

Illusionist
Action/Performer - $5
+2 Cards.
If the Performer pile is empty, +1 Card.
Play the top card of the Performer pile (without putting it into play).

Trickster
Action/Performer - $5
+2 Actions.
If the Performer pile is empty, look through your discard pile, reveal any number of Actions cards from it, and shuffle them into your deck.
Play the top card of the Performer pile (without putting it into play).

Balladeer
Action/Performer - $5
+$2.
If the Performer pile is empty, +$1.
Play the top card of the Performer pile (without putting it into play).

Juggler
Action/Performer - $5
+1 Buy. +$1.
If the Performer pile is empty, +1 Buy and +$1.
Play the top card of the Performer pile (without putting it into play).

Conjurer
Action/Performer - $5
You may gain a card costing up to $4.
If the Performer pile is empty, you may gain a card costing up to $6.
Play the top card of the Performer pile (without putting it into play).

I also think Balladeer and Juggler should be combined to make way for a more interesting fifth performer (perhaps trashing?). I also don't like how Trickster can straight-up cause you to shuffle in the middle of your Action phase.

Really, really cool card idea, though. A winner for sure.
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2013, 06:32:15 pm »
+1

Thanks! I'm positive that the cards need rewording, but 'playing' the top card seemed wrong: wouldn't you repeatedly play the top card?

I'll get back to this tomorrow (it's past midnight now), but I'm thinking this is looking more like a DA card than a Cornucopia card, really..
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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2013, 06:40:14 pm »
0

Thanks! I'm positive that the cards need rewording, but 'playing' the top card seemed wrong: wouldn't you repeatedly play the top card?

Ohhhhhh, yeah. Good point. Well, I'll try to think of a better wording.

I'll get back to this tomorrow (it's past midnight now), but I'm thinking this is looking more like a DA card than a Cornucopia card, really..

Nonsense. Just because it's a heterogeneous stack like Knights and pseudo-plays another card like Band of Misfits? Dark Ages already has that stuff. I think it's much better suited for Cornucopia.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 10:29:56 pm »
0

In the Polymath thread there was some discussion on how to best word the card, and it's not easy.  Since Performer is a little more complicated than Polymath, I think that's going to end up being a mess.  On the other hand, it is a very cool idea, so hopefully you can work something out.

As for the other cards:
Windmill - I like it a lot.  As noted by others, it's a lab whenever you have green in hand, but you don't have green in hand for very long when sifting like that, so it doesn't stack as well as lab.  Since the whole point of lab is how well it stacks, that makes this a good bit weaker, so I think $3 is fine.

Lady-in-Waiting - This seems way too strong.  Based on your comments, I would assume that you can choose the same bonus multiple times (unlike pawn).  If you make it like pawn, where the choices must be different, I think it would be pretty reasonable.

Buoy - I'm not really sure what to think about this one.  It's interesting, but it doesn't really seem like it would be that much fun to play, but I'm not really sure why it feels like that.  It seems like it's a whole lot of text and setting cards aside just for a $1 difference, maybe that's the problem?

Perpetuum Mobile - This card seems like it would be very swingy, frustrating, and luck-based.  But hey that's alchemy, I guess it follows in Possession's footsteps.  Making it cost $5P is a good way to make it hard to get.  But once I finally get it, I better hope I have the action I want to set aside with it in hand.  It's going to take a while to work your way up to $5P.  Once you get there, you have to wait until the next shuffle, then play it, and then you start getting the benefits of it.  The benefits aren't going to last long, because by that point you're probably nearing the end-game, so you're not going to be adapting your strategy based on what you managed to put onto your mat.  Instead, you just have to hope that what you draw this with the card you want to get the boost.  I think I like WW's suggestion of making the bonus just be +$1, +1 buy.  That has a lot less potential to go crazy, and then you can bump the price down so it's more accessible.

Dowry - I like this fix, I think it might be good now.  The set aside thing is ugly but you can't really do anything about that.  I like that this can trigger on any gain (not just on buys, like goons), but can only get 1 VP per gain and cannot stack.  So overall I think it's weaker than goons, and it costs only $5, so that's good.

Performer - Aside from the wording, the card might be pretty nice overall.  I think Conjurer should restrict based on type (like gain an action up to $4/$6), since otherwise, it can gain Duchies at the end, whereas the others can't do anything quite so good.  Juggler seems weak.  Maybe have Juggler cost only $4, like Sir Martin?  Trickster doing the inn effect at the end, in addition to +2 actions, might also be too strong.  Normally the end of the game is when Inn's on-gain effect is most useful, since it helps you to set up that turn that can definitely get you to $8.  But it's balanced by costing $5 and competing with Duchy.  Trickster doesn't start doing its thing until the end of the game, and if you have drawing in hand, it can set up this turn since it gives +2 actions.  I think Illusionist, Balladeer, and Juggler all get weaker when the pile runs out, whereas (as they are now) Trickster and Conjurer both get a lot stronger.

Land Run - I think I like this.  It does so many different things that it's really hard to judge whether the cost is appropriate.  I like the on-buy effect.  Making yourself discard down to three is not fun, so I wouldn't like that, except that I like how you have to make the decision between discarding two cards and leaving an estate in hand for +3 cards, or gaining an estate.  It has a weird sort of self-synergy that I like.

Dark Ages - I think the biggest problem with this one is that it doesn't exist.  It's hard to say much else about it.

Bank - Well, you will need to rename it since there is already a card called Bank.  (Maybe just call it Banker?)  I like the reaction (I think someone commented earlier saying they didn't like it, but I think it's fine).  It is a little weird that it only works with four other cards out of 205, but it synergizes with itself so it will always do something good.  The overpay effect is way too strong though.  Every $1 you overpay now gets you two coin tokens later.  I think you would just piledrive these in the mid-game, overpaying as much as possible (especially by revealing copies of these), and then who cares if your deck becomes a big pile of green, because you have a big pile of coin tokens.  I might be wrong though, I tend to be bad at judging the value of coin tokens.

Overall, I like these ideas.  Nicely done.
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 10:56:12 am »
0

I need a bit more time to chew this over. Great feedback; these cards are going to work out! Glad the Performers are so well liked - they need a lot of tuning, though.

I want Perpetuum Mobile to be an extreme engine enabler, so I really want to keep the +Action on (and possibly the +$1). If I drop the +Card, could this cost $P? Can someone think of a scenario where that is too crazy?

Bank - Well, you will need to rename it since there is already a card called Bank.  (Maybe just call it Banker?)
Don't know what I was thinking. It was Banker at first, but then I turned it into Bank because I thought it suited the victory type better. Oh well, this card needs work anyway!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 11:14:16 am by Dubdubdubdub »
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 05:22:42 pm »
0

+1 action, +$1 might work for Perpetuum Mobile.  There might still be problems with cheap cards though.  In particular, I think cheap terminals are a problem.  Pawn becomes an activated conspirator, any terminal silver becomes better than gold (generally), even moat becomes a lab-peddler.  Is it worth it for the opportunity cost?  You have to buy a potion, wait a shuffle, then spend a buy on Perpetuum Mobile, wait another shuffle, then trash it and effectively trash a copy of the card you want to give a bonus.  I'm really not sure how worthwhile it is but I would price it at at least $2P, maybe $3P.  You'll need to playtest it to know for sure.

The other concern would be that terminal cards are usually terminal for a reason.  In particular, attacks that shouldn't stack are terminal.  Making Sea Hag, Witch, Mountebank, Ambassador, Swindler, even Saboteur, Thief, Noble Brigand, and Pirate Ship non-terminal sounds dangerous.  But most of those are expensive so the opportunity cost will be pretty high, maybe on par with setting up an engine that can play multiple of them per turn with villages and drawing, in which case it's fine.

Also, this would be super crazy with Rats.  Rats become a Bazaar that turns cards in your deck into Bazaars that turn cards in your deck into Bazaars...But then you have a problem if your whole deck is Rats and you want to buy green cards.  You can't play them without risking trashing that province you just bought.  So it's probably a trap.  But man, that's crazy to think about.  There might be a good way to pull it off but you would have to be really careful, and I think that would be a combo that would take a lot of skill, so that's probably a good thing.

It certainly sounds like a very fun card, you'll just need to playtest it to see how it needs to be priced.  I would guess $3P would work with +1 action, +$1.
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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 05:36:08 pm »
0

This shouldn't stop you from using the idea, but for reference, here's a thread from about a year ago where I suggest a similar card.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2665.msg42686#msg42686

I think I like the Potion-cost better than the $6 cost I suggested. Hopefully the feedback in that thread (especially Rinkworks' playtesting of it) will be helpful.

EDIT: Actually, I'm going to test the card in the linked thread in my Enterprise expansion. It needs more one-shots and could use another $5 or $6 card. But good luck creating a Potion-cost version for this set! It seems like the cards are pretty different (mine gives +$1 and yours gives Cards and/or Actions.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 05:44:22 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 05:40:17 pm »
0

I think +1 Action, +$1 would be a good bonus. It doesn't sound problematic to me. I think $5+P is OK, it's super-exotic and game-warping.

Also, this would be super crazy with Rats.
The Midas Touch! You need Fortress to complete the combo.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 05:44:21 pm by Warfreak2 »
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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2013, 05:53:26 pm »
0

Just a note, Savings should say "take two coin tokens" instead of "gain".
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2013, 06:58:54 pm »
0

OK, haven't really followed other comments.  Apologies if I repeat anything.

Quote
Base:
Windmill
Action - $3
+1 Action
You may discard a card.
Draw up to 5 cards.
I considered moving the original Perpetuum Mobile here, because it was so bland and it looked so much like this (as pointed out by WW). Decided against it, because I still love disappearing actions. And SirPeebles liked it! I kept the cost at $3 because they are very bad in multiples, so opening with doubles shouldn’t matter all that much (just gives you 1 early $5 hand, probably).

This doesn't feel like Base to me.  Feels more... Alchemy, maybe?  Intrigue?  Not sure.

I think this may be stronger than you'd expect.  From a 5 card hand, this is Lab with a small drawback.  I think it would still be decent in multiples.  It only gets bad when you have decent draw from elsewhere.  I would start testing at $4 because it looks too good for $3.

Quote
Intrigue:
Lady-in-Waiting
Action - $5
You may discard up to 3 cards. For each card discarded this way, choose one:
+2 Cards;
+2 Actions;
+1 Buy, +$1.
(Choices must be made at once, like with Pawn)

Mechanically, this has a bit of the original Illusionist, but it plays completely differently and I think it makes much more sense.
This can either be a sifting Village, a sifting Smithy or a sifting mini-Market (-1 Card, +1 Action). Is this too strong at $5?

I think it is too strong at $5.  The sifting is very powerful -- discard 3 cards for any of 3 nice effects.

Consider a card that was just "+1 action, discard a card, +2 cards".  I think I would cost this at $4.  Note that if you put the discard after the draw, it ends up too strong for $4 (early version of Inn, as per the outtakes).  And Stables gives +3 cards but requires that you discard treasure, rather than just any card.

With so much flexibility, I think Lady-in-Waiting is worth $6.  If it proves too weak in testing, I would suggesting buffing it rather than lowering the price.  Maybe make the second option +3 actions, and/or the last option +2 Buys.

I like it for Intrigue.

Quote
Seaside:
Buoy
Action/Duration -$2
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card. Cards that share a type with it cost one less on your next turn, but not less than $0.
At the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

@WW: As far as I know, Duration cards get discarded in the cleanup phase of the final turn they have any effect in. I did add the +1 Buy for the next turn. That’s not just an aesthetic choice though; it makes the card a lot stronger.

Looks pretty interesting.  $2 feels like the right price for initial testing.

To match with Seaside, rewrite it like this:

+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card.  Cards that share a type with it cost $1 less on your next turn, but not less than $0.  When you discard this from play, also discard the revealed card.

Quote
Alchemy:
Perpetuum Mobile
Action - $5P
Trash this. If you do, put an action card from your hand on your Perpetuum Mobile mat.
When you play an action card you have a copy of on your Perpetuum Mobile mat: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

Instead of putting the price on $P, I decided to up it to a mid-game level. I made the opportunity cost immense, just to be able to keep the whole cantrip on. Is that worth it? Or should it cost $P and just be +1 Action?
Now it has a unique cost :) I added the $1 to make it viable in the endgame.

Not sure how I feel about this.  Not so fond of one-shots, especially something this expensive.  Adding "cantrip" to a card seems super crazy.  I noticed that LF linked his "Investment" idea, which I liked.  Adding +$1 is just so much less scary than adding cantrip.  But it's still probably too slow to work well.  Testing is definitely needed.  I would probably start testing at $4P (because $5P is almost as tough as Possession but this still requires matching it up with the card you want to use it on) but drop the extra +$1.

Quote
Prosperity:
Dowry
Treasure/Reaction - $5
+$2
+1 Buy
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand and set the gained card aside. If you do, gain 1VP. Discard the set aside cards at the end of your buy phase.
So yeah, this is just a wordy version of: ‘When you gain a card, you may reveal this and gain 1VP.’ Darn Secret Chamber for complicating reaction rules.
What do you think? Now you have to gain, making it a lot harder to exploit and running out piles. There’s always Watchtower, but Watchtower is insane with lots of cards :)

OK, I guess.  Not fond of it.  Feels clunky and kind of boring.  Sorry that this piece of feedback isn't that constructive.

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Cornucopia:
Performer: Illusionist
Action - $5
Play the effect outside the parentheses:
+2 Cards (+1 Card)
If the Performer pile is empty, play the effect in parentheses.
Play the top part of the card on the top of the Performer pile (outside the parentheses).
Above is one of 5 different Performers; there are 2 copies of each. These are the 5 different effects:
•   Illusionist: +2 Cards (+1 Card)
•   Trickster: +2 Actions (Inn on-buy effect)
•   Balladeer: +$2 (+$1)
•   Juggler:+1 Buy, +$1 (+1 Buy, +$1)
•   Conjurer: You may gain a card costing up to $4 (and another costing up to $6)
There are 5 different Performers, 2 copies of each. Each Performer gives you its own action first and the action of the Performer on the top of the pile.
When the pile runs out, every Performer gets a little better on his/her own.
Performer is part of the card name, I don’t think it needs to be a card type.

Very interesting idea, but execution could be better.  First, the wording is confusing.  I would recommend inventing some new wording to make the effect clearer.  Additionally, I think some of the combinations could get a little too crazy.  I suggest something like this:

Performer: Illusionist
Action - $5
+1 Card
You get the bonus effect of the top Performer in the supply.  If the Performer pile is empty, you get the bonus effect of this card.
----
Bonus effect: +2 Cards


So the invented wording is the "bonus effect".  By doing this, it makes it clear what effects get added without using awkward phrasing like "outside of the parentheses".  In order to keep it interestingly variable, I put the stronger effect as the bonus.

You're going to need to be very careful about the five versions and how they mix.  In particular, I don't like that you put the Inn effect on a card.  Do you mean for that to be on play?  I expect it would be way too powerful that way.  Conjurer's gain "up to $6" is also kind of scary good.

Edit: LF's suggestion for rewording Performers looks pretty good, better than mine.  I agree with him that Juggler is weak and that the Inn-effect is not so appealing.  I'll add that I still think Conjurer's gain up to $6 is too good... but I guess maybe it's OK because it doesn't kick in until the pile empties.  Hmm...

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Hinterlands:
Land Run
Action/Attack - $6
Gain a silver, putting it into your hand. Every player (including you) discards down to 3 cards in hand.
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards. Otherwise: gain an Estate.
When you buy this, reveal your hand. For every victory card you revealed, gain a silver.

Wow, it’s really hard to come up with a good Hinterlands card. The last one was too boring and it felt like cheating to move the old Lady-in-Waiting to this spot.
What do you think? Compared to Margrave (which it might share too much space with), it is -1Buy and -2 Cards (but with sifting of 3 cards), and it’s +$2, +a silver gain, +on-buy effect and a harsher attack.
I think I need some input here. I still like the on-buy!

Don't like it.  It feels very random and thrown together, like JoaT with much less sense (JoaT has a reason for most of its effects -- it's an after-the-fact Moat).

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Dark Ages
Dark Ages needs something crazy that I haven’t come up with yet. A stronger, more expensive Arsonist/Bonfire won’t cut it (and as WW pointed out: the +2 Spoils were kind of tacked on).

Oh, nothing here.

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Guilds:
Bank
Victory/Reaction - $3+
2 VP
When you overpay for a card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +$2 to the amount you overpay.
You may overpay for this. Gain one Savings for every $1 you overpay.

Savings
Action, $0*
Return this to the Savings pile. If you do:   
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain 2 coin tokens.
This is not in the supply.
There’s 20 copies of Savings. Thematically, I would like it to be a treasure, but I don't want it to be too much like Spoils so I’d rather change the name.

Bank is already the name of a real card.

The overpay is somewhat interesting but I'm not sure it's worth the complexity.  I mean, OK, in the end it's actually pretty simple, but for some reason I get an impression of complexity from it and I don't like that much.  Weird feelings!

A bigger complaint I have is this Savings card.  Why is a small expansion getting two cards, with one of them at 20 copies?  I'd rather see the space for Savings go to 2 extra cards for large expansions.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 07:04:39 pm by eHalcyon »
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 07:26:16 pm »
0

+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card.  Cards that share a type with it cost $1 less on your next turn, but not less than $0.  When you discard this from play, also discard the revealed card.

I just noticed this has Procession problems.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Expansion
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 07:28:59 pm »
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+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

Reveal the top card of your deck and put it face up on this card.  Cards that share a type with it cost $1 less on your next turn, but not less than $0.  When you discard this from play, also discard the revealed card.

I just noticed this has Procession problems.

Ahh, you are right.  Not sure what to do about it.  I guess you could not explicitly say you have to discard the revealed card.  Most people would get it right, and it could be clarified in a FAQ.  But I guess the "put it face up on this card" part still needs work.
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