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Dsell

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2013, 02:38:48 pm »
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Matt Smith is my favorite doctor but David Tenant is terrific too. I'd love to have seen David Tenant in some episodes with higher production quality so I'm very excited about the 50th anniversary special. The Ponds are my favorite companions but honestly I really like all of them. I LOVE Riversong. Her episodes tend to be my favorites, she might just be my favorite character in the whole Who universe. I'm not emotionally prepared for when her arc will inevitably end.

It "ended" when we first met her. Sort of. She did die!

I know I know I know. But surely there will be some sort of hoopla whenshe actually leaves.

Consider that we've also seen the other end of her timeline with the Doctor already (In "Let's Kill Hitler").

Yes but...surely with a character as important as River they will find some way to indicate that she's leaving the show. If she just disappears without ceremony I won't be able to handle it...

You know who's disappearance without a ceremony I really didn't like? Rory's.
Amy gets this whole drama as she leaves, but Rory just gets touched by an angel and is gone. I really liked Rory, was sad to see him go (but didn't mind Amy leaving) and was even more disappointed that he just disappeared without ceremony.


That didn't bother me so much actually. I thought the Winter Quay stuff was a pretty good exit for him/them. I was expecting for them both to go at that point which would have been alright. When they came back, it was like they got a few bonus minutes, and Rory disappearing was a surprising way of letting you know that everything is NOT OK.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2013, 06:37:31 pm »
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Holy smokes, I just realized that the ninth doctor is Christopher Eccleston.  I mean, I knew that Eccleston had played a Doctor.  I'd also seen images of the ninth Doc with Rose.  But I never realized that was Eccleston... didn't recognize him without the beard he had in Heroes!
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2013, 12:48:16 am »
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My first experience with Eccleston was his role in Shallow Grave. This Doctor's personality is vastly different from his role as David.

I did see him in Heroes too. Really, he has such wildly different looks in all three roles. I haven't seen anything he's been in (I don't think). Okay, IMDb makes a liar out of me. Time to rewatch 28 Days Later, the Others, and Elizabeth.

Oh, and looks like he's in the new Thor movie. That'll be exciting.
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Davio

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2013, 05:36:25 am »
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I feel a bit sorry for Rory.

If I were turned into a plastic Roman, I wouldn't wait for a box to open for 2000 years I don't think. I'd go see the world and try not to end up in a microwave or stay out in the sun too long.
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shMerker

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2013, 04:07:37 pm »
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Matt Smith is my favorite doctor but David Tenant is terrific too. I'd love to have seen David Tenant in some episodes with higher production quality so I'm very excited about the 50th anniversary special. The Ponds are my favorite companions but honestly I really like all of them. I LOVE Riversong. Her episodes tend to be my favorites, she might just be my favorite character in the whole Who universe. I'm not emotionally prepared for when her arc will inevitably end.

It "ended" when we first met her. Sort of. She did die!

I know I know I know. But surely there will be some sort of hoopla whenshe actually leaves.

Consider that we've also seen the other end of her timeline with the Doctor already (In "Let's Kill Hitler").

Yes but...surely with a character as important as River they will find some way to indicate that she's leaving the show. If she just disappears without ceremony I won't be able to handle it...

I suspect they'll do an episode where the Doctor sees her right before she's about to head for the library. He'll know what's going to happen, but won't be able to stop her. Maybe he tries but she won't let him. That seems like something River would do.
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Voltaire

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2013, 04:51:33 pm »
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Matt Smith is my favorite doctor but David Tenant is terrific too. I'd love to have seen David Tenant in some episodes with higher production quality so I'm very excited about the 50th anniversary special. The Ponds are my favorite companions but honestly I really like all of them. I LOVE Riversong. Her episodes tend to be my favorites, she might just be my favorite character in the whole Who universe. I'm not emotionally prepared for when her arc will inevitably end.

It "ended" when we first met her. Sort of. She did die!

I know I know I know. But surely there will be some sort of hoopla whenshe actually leaves.

Consider that we've also seen the other end of her timeline with the Doctor already (In "Let's Kill Hitler").

Yes but...surely with a character as important as River they will find some way to indicate that she's leaving the show. If she just disappears without ceremony I won't be able to handle it...

I suspect they'll do an episode where the Doctor sees her right before she's about to head for the library. He'll know what's going to happen, but won't be able to stop her. Maybe he tries but she won't let him. That seems like something River would do.
Have you all seen "The Name of the Doctor"? I thought that episode made it clear we were seeing River after the Library ie she survives it/comes back somehow. Doesn't she tell Clara how the Doctor knows he leaves her in the Library and never says anything about it to her? ie she knows he knows?

And if that didn't give you a clue, huge fan. Initially got into the show starting with "Rose" while Tennant's specials were airing. I caught up with the show just in time to have The End of Time be the first episodes I ever watched "live". I've since watched a smattering of classic Doctor Who. Several serials of Baker (love "The Pirate Planet"!) and lots of 1st Doctor because of completist tendancies. I quite like Hartnell, actually - if you can get over the fact that the Doctor kidnaps his first-ever human companions, it's easy to see him as a younger version of the current guys.

I loved the Doctor's kiss of River in the last episode, simply because it was (I think) the first-ever honest-to-Rassilon romantic kiss with no sci-fi weirdness going on moment in the Doctor's life, and it completely justified to me the romantic side of his relationship with River (which up until that point felt as fake and tacked-on as Rose). And this is coming from someone who hates hates hates it when companions fall for the Doctor.

Rory/Amy (in that order) > Donna > Martha > Rose. No idea where to put Clara yet.

I thought the most recent season started out massively awful - so bad I didn't bother watching each episode the week it aired - and ended with Moffat's best finale yet.

I also agree with those who say that Moffat is great at individual episodes and not so hot at arcs. Overall, though, I think he's done far more good than bad for the series and therefore don't mind him staying in charge for as long as he wants to.
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ConMan

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2013, 09:29:23 pm »
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Have you all seen "The Name of the Doctor"? I thought that episode made it clear we were seeing River after the Library ie she survives it/comes back somehow. Doesn't she tell Clara how the Doctor knows he leaves her in the Library and never says anything about it to her? ie she knows he knows?
"The Name of the Doctor" spoiler:
I thought it was pretty clear that the River we see in this episode is not the real River Song - she's just a psychic projection of the Doctor's memory of her, which he never acknowledges because guilt/some kind of belief that acknowledging her will be equivalent to saying goodbye - and as such, the whole "I've always been able to see you" and kiss really *is* a second goodbye to her, and quite a dramatic one at that. So much so, that I don't know whether Moffatt's going to bring her back for a while if at all.
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Davio

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2013, 02:24:50 am »
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My favorite companion (of the new series) was Martha Jones.
Donna was probably my least favorite although I didn't mind her that much in the end. Glad that she was gone though.
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Galzria

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2013, 03:48:05 am »
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My favorite companion (of the new series) was Martha Jones.
Donna was probably my least favorite although I didn't mind her that much in the end. Glad that she was gone though.

See, I have to admit I was the opposite. I was so thankful with Donna to finally -not- have a companion that was constantly lusting after the Doctor. Martha drove me up the wall with her constant 'woe is me' attitude, and the way she screamed at every shadow that jumped out at her (Human Nature // The Family of Blood, while good episodes, really drove home my dislike of Martha. She -never- put herself on equal footing with the Doctor. Playing his servant was, for all intents, her role in the stories). Even in the finale, when she was supposed to play this great, big part in saving the world, ultimately she was just a servant to the Doctor's plans.

I dunno. To me more than anybody else, Martha was the shining example of what Davros accused the Doctor of turning his companions into. Nothing but weapons to be used.
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Davio

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2013, 03:57:32 am »
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Well, David Tennant was also my favourite Doctor, he just made the show about him and not so much about the companions and I didn't mind that at all.

Heck, I could watch the show if it didn't even have any companions, but maybe that's just me. Most of the time they just get in the way. They're like poor little sheep who have to get rescued over and over and over, because they touched some buttons they weren't allowed to touch or something. Often it's their stupidity that gets them into trouble.

This is why I've always loved River Song, she was strong and the only one equal to the Doctor, the only one able to really amaze him.

To me, the companions have a little bit of that old horror stupidity, you know where you're shouting at the screen "Don't answer the door!" And they answer the door and get killed. I suppose this is needed to offset the Doctor's brilliance, but I could do without.
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Kirian

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2013, 10:11:49 am »
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To me, the companions have a little bit of that old horror stupidity, you know where you're shouting at the screen "Don't answer the door!" And they answer the door and get killed. I suppose this is needed to offset the Doctor's brilliance, but I could do without.

As I understand it, originally the companions were there to create a connection to the viewer.  They have to have a bit of naivete to create that connection.

It's another reminder that Doctor Who, despite its setting, is not truly science fiction in the technical sense; like Star Wars, and to a certain extent Star Trek, it is grand fantasy that happens to include space travel, time travel, and aliens.  The Doctor takes Clarke's Third Law to extremes.  He is a demigod by any reasonable standard; the Doctor (and other Time Lords) are not merely brilliant but exceedingly powerful.  The Doctor and the Master compare quite well to Gandalf and Sauron in terms of raw power (and the ways in which each uses their power).

(Digreesion: One could reasonably say that Davros's statement about the Doctor turning innocents into weapons applies pretty well to Gandalf.  Frodo and the other hobbits are manipulated by him into taking on the quest of the Ring, and the other members of the Fellowship were on some level pawns moved into place by Gandalf--Aragorn and Gimli to a greater extent, Boromir and Legolas to a lesser extent.)

Anyway... against the backdrop of such (literally) fantastic power, the viewer needs a person who is no less heroic but much less powerful and, well, naive, human, hopeful.

I do think the romantic subplots with Rose and Martha got a bit out of hand; I was worried about that with Amy, but the inclusion of Rory made that unlikely.  (I have yet to see the Clara episodes, as I'm catching up with all of this on Netflix.

TLDR: The Doctor is a demigod, and the companions necessarily seem weak in power, though not weak in spirit, by comparison.
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Voltaire

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2013, 11:08:32 am »
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It's another reminder that Doctor Who, despite its setting, is not truly science fiction in the technical sense; like Star Wars, and to a certain extent Star Trek, it is grand fantasy that happens to include space travel, time travel, and aliens.
The best way for me to cause a fight with my friends is to call Dr. Who a fantasy show (which I think it is).  8)
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2013, 11:15:24 am »
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I like Clara quite a bit.  Despite the feeling that she's trying to be a slightly-less-gorgeous Amy, I like that they play around with the companion tropes a bit.  Like when the Doctor tells her to stay put and she actually stays put much to his amazement.

P.S. Yes, Doctor Who is totally time-travel fantasy.  Nothing wrong with that.
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Voltaire

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2013, 11:21:05 am »
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I like Clara quite a bit.  Despite the feeling that she's trying to be a slightly-less-gorgeous Amy, I like that they play around with the companion tropes a bit.  Like when the Doctor tells her to stay put and she actually stays put much to his amazement.
That was the first moment Clara moved from "generic attractive spunky companion" to "character" for me.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2013, 11:41:03 am »
+1

The best way for me to cause a fight with my friends is to call Dr. Who a fantasy show (which I think it is).  8)

I can't imagine not accepting it as a fantasy show. It has so many instances of hand-waving that I don't even ponder the logic. It has a lot of fluff but sometimes some deep moments. Want to masquerade aliens as humans or a spaceship as the top floor of a house? Some weird gizmo that just makes it happen. No science needed. How does the perception filter work? Who cares? It lets people see a spaceship as a flat. How do those enormous grotesque things fit into a human suit? Who cares? They simply do, and the explanation of the displaced gas is less of a suitable explanation and more of an excuse to have flatulence humor.

Call it fantasy, my good man. You'll get no argument from me.
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Kirian

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2013, 11:43:11 am »
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P.S. Yes, Doctor Who is totally time-travel fantasy.  Nothing wrong with that.

Indeed!  There's nothing at all wrong with fantasy; I don't intend any imprecations by saying that.  Certainly not as a reader of both fantasy and science fiction literature, and as a fan of Star Wars, Star Trek, and Doctor Who.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2013, 11:51:07 am »
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This is why I've always loved River Song, she was strong and the only one equal to the Doctor, the only one able to really amaze him.

To me, the companions have a little bit of that old horror stupidity, you know where you're shouting at the screen "Don't answer the door!" And they answer the door and get killed. I suppose this is needed to offset the Doctor's brilliance, but I could do without.

I like the companions when they're not being snotty. I can see trepidation and accidental pressing of buttons. Sometimes the Doctor tells a companion to do something with a control, and it doesn't make sense for the companion, so he/she screws it up. I can respect that.

I didn't like Amy at first, because she was just so annoying. That's changed. And sometimes even Donna got on my tits when she gets all bull-headed about something in which she's unfamiliar.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2013, 11:59:49 am »
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As long as we're talking our potentially controversial companion choices, why don't we rank them?

River > Amy > Clara > Martha > (Rory's Dad > Donna's Dad >) Rory > Jack > Donna > Rose > Mickey
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2013, 01:04:42 pm »
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As long as we're talking our potentially controversial companion choices, why don't we rank them?

River > Amy > Clara > Martha > (Rory's Dad > Donna's Dad >) Rory > Jack > Donna > Rose > Mickey
Donna's Dad is never seen - he died before her first appearance in the series. Presumably you're talking about Wilf, her grandfather. /pedantic
On a less technical note, what about all the other pre-revival companions, or... Adam, Sarah Jane, Astrid (okay, yeah I wouldn't include her either), Craig, or for Pete's sake, at least Jackie?

Anyway, yeah Dr. Who is fantasy (perhaps Science Fantasy or Space Fantasy or I have no problem with Time Travel Fantasy). But Star Trek, no, that's genuinely Sci-Fi. Or at least it was until the last couple movies...

Davio

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2013, 01:07:20 pm »
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Dr Who is Sci-Fi Opera, it's so surreal and over-the-top sometimes, it at least feels that way. :)
Hey, they even did Dr Who at the Proms, and moreover, I even watched it!
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Voltaire

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2013, 01:08:26 pm »
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On a less technical note, what about all the other pre-revival companions, or... Adam, Sarah Jane, Astrid (okay, yeah I wouldn't include her either), Craig, or for Pete's sake, at least Jackie?
Haven't seen nearly enough of anyone but the original three...so Ian > Barbara > Susan.
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2013, 01:38:33 pm »
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Ian seemed like a pretty solid character from what little I've seen.

Hey, did they ever resolve the fact that the Doctor has a granddaughter? I think I recall (possibly incorrectly) in the Dr. Who specials that they talk about his granddaughter but then just never made mention of it after the first series.

I mean, he had a daughter (kind of), so they could have tied that into Jenny.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2013, 01:47:42 pm »
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Hey, did they ever resolve the fact that the Doctor has a granddaughter? I think I recall (possibly incorrectly) in the Dr. Who specials that they talk about his granddaughter but then just never made mention of it after the first series.

That would be Susan!
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2013, 01:57:21 pm »
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Ian seemed like a pretty solid character from what little I've seen.

Hey, did they ever resolve the fact that the Doctor has a granddaughter? I think I recall (possibly incorrectly) in the Dr. Who specials that they talk about his granddaughter but then just never made mention of it after the first series.

I mean, he had a daughter (kind of), so they could have tied that into Jenny.

Susan was his first companion in the classic series.  She is living on Earth at some point in the future now.
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2013, 01:58:46 pm »
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Donna's Dad is never seen - he died before her first appearance in the series. Presumably you're talking about Wilf, her grandfather. /pedantic
On a less technical note, what about all the other pre-revival companions, or... Adam, Sarah Jane, Astrid (okay, yeah I wouldn't include her either), Craig, or for Pete's sake, at least Jackie?

Anyway, yeah Dr. Who is fantasy (perhaps Science Fantasy or Space Fantasy or I have no problem with Time Travel Fantasy). But Star Trek, no, that's genuinely Sci-Fi. Or at least it was until the last couple movies...

Gah!  Yes, I was talking about her Grandfather.  And that isn't the first time I've been corrected on that, I just can't get it into my head that he isn't her father for some reason, maybe because I don't like the Donna episodes enough to watch them much (aside from a few instant classics like Silence in the Library).

Original series companions:

Ace >> everyone else >> Adric

Hmmm more seriously

Ace > The Brigadier > Sarah Jane > Jamie > Romana > Turlugh > Ian > Barbara > Susan > Nyssa > Tegan > Adric

Those are the ones that immediately come to mind in attempting to rank, not sure how I'd fit others in.  I've been watching Davison episodes recently.
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