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Author Topic: Dr. Who  (Read 40955 times)

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Archetype

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Dr. Who
« on: June 20, 2013, 11:27:27 pm »
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My friend showed me this show last year, and well, she's got me a bit hooked. I've seen all the episodes on Netflix and have only heard talk about the newer season apparently they get rid of the Ponds somehow. I know I'm not the only one who's seen this since people talked about it in the Star Trek thread, and this show needs its own thread too.

So, favorite Alien? Episodes?  My favorite episode is Gridlocked for how mindblowing-ly interesting it is (at least to me) and The Silence are my favorite alien. They're one of the few things from Doctor Who that may actually exist.
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jsh357

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 11:40:16 pm »
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I am a pretty big fan.  I've watched all the new series and a fair amount of the classic series.  I like pretty much every Doctor except Hartnell (which isn't his fault, as the Doctor didn't really become the character he is until Troughton anyway).

Favorite aliens are the Daleks and the Ood (mainly the design for the Ood; they really need more episodes to flesh them out as a race).  Man, I love a lot of episodes of the show.  Tomb of the Cybermen, The War Games, The Ark in Space, Genesis of the Daleks, The Christmas Invasion, Midnight, Vincent and the Doctor, and The Doctor's Wife all come to mind.  There's still just so much I haven't watched, though. 

I have loathed what Steven Moffat's done to the show since Season 6, but I'm pretty hopeful for where he goes after Season 7 since things will be forced to change up a bit.  Don't get me wrong; I like Moffat fine, but I think he's better at writing one-off episodes that are tight and focused than he is at running the show. 
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Galzria

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 11:57:31 pm »
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I've got every episode that's not been destroyed, and even the audio for a handful of episodes that have (been destroyed). Massive, massive fan.

Don't really have a favorite monster, but Troughton is hands down my favorite incarnation. As far as series of episodes go, Trial of a Time Lord (Season 23, episodes: The mysterious planet, Mindwarp, Terror of the Vervoids, The Ultimate Foe) is definitely up there. I wasn't a massive Colin Baker fan, but those were good.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2013, 11:58:51 pm »
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Love the show, seen all the rebooted series and unfortunately only a smattering of the classics. Episode must be Blink. I've been reasonably disappointed with what they've done to the Weeping Angels every time they've brought them back - they are just more and more like standard monsters, and this is just very disappointing (actually I feel somewhat similarly about the Borg in Star Trek after Season 5 or so of TNG).

The classics I've found a bit hit and miss. The Three Doctors is awful, and I couldn't get through The Aztecs, but several other serials are perfectly fine, and some - I am mainly thinking of The Caves of Androzzani and City of Death - are quite good.

Actually, season 3 of the revival is just pretty clearly my favorite, and especially the second half. Human Nature - Family of Blood - Blink - Utopia - Sound of Drums - Last of the Time Lords... it's really hard to find another such stretch of great episodes all in a row in any series.

Aliens? Time Lords.

eHalcyon

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2013, 11:59:10 pm »
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I prefer Inspector Space-Time.
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 12:05:08 am »
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I prefer Inspector Space-Time.
I'm not a big fan of Community.
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gman314

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 12:24:03 am »
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I've watched all of the rebooted series except for most of season 5, just haven't got around to it. I really like Blink as well, and I like the weeping angels there, but I agree with WW that after that they become a typical villain, quite disappointing. My favorite season has to be season 4; I really like Donna and there's a great string of episodes from Planet of the Ood all the way to Journey's end interrupted only by The Unicorn and the Wasp. Actually, I really like the whole season except for that one and Fires of Pompeii, although I didn't find Midnight that great. Maybe I should try it again.

I've only seen one serial from the old series; a Tom Baker episode entitled The Seeds of Doom. That was a fun episode to watch.

I have loathed what Steven Moffat's done to the show since Season 6, but I'm pretty hopeful for where he goes after Season 7 since things will be forced to change up a bit.  Don't get me wrong; I like Moffat fine, but I think he's better at writing one-off episodes that are tight and focused than he is at running the show. 

Agree with you completely there, I really don't like what he's done with the show.
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Polk5440

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 12:39:41 am »
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I wasn't hooked on Doctor Who until Season 5 of the revival, so I have to say, Moffat taking over won me over as a fan. Only then did I go back and watch the previous 4 seasons in order. It just seems like they made things work better in the later seasons -- more interesting aliens; River Song is a better "love interest" than Rose; Amy running away on her wedding night with the Doctor is done better than Rose's running away from Mickey; Doctor's speeches are better; stories seem to be cleaner, less reliant on back story; cinematography and over all production values are better. It gets better every season!

Blink has to be the episode. This is the episode I show to someone who had not seen Doctor Who before.

While I tend to like the stand alone stories best (I don't like it as much when too much back story is required -- or when old finished story lines are dredged up for ratings: Rose, I am looking at you), the River Song story line has been really good. When she shows up, you know it's going to be a great episode. Silence in the Library is my favorite two parter. Season 5 finale is my favorite finale.

Weeping Angles are the best aliens (I have a lamp in my living room that flickers occasionally like the light bulbs in the basement -- it's creepy) and I am glad they are not overused. I think they have been really well utilized. I am sick of the Daleks and the Cybermen.

Ponds>Donna/Grandpa (only because I hate the way they wrote Donna out)>Clara>Rose>Martha.

Haven't seen much of the old Doctor Who. I tried to watch one of the old episodes on Netflix -- it just moved too slowly and wasn't worth my time.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 12:49:44 am »
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I prefer Inspector Space-Time.
I'm not a big fan of Community.

More seriously though -- I haven't gotten into Dr. Who for a couple reasons -- the big one is that I'm kind of a completionist and very loyal to shows (I tend to stick with shows I once liked even after they fall into mediocrity or worse), so if I started on DW I would feel compelled to start at the beginning.  That leads to the second issue -- there is a LOT to get into, and it looks overwhelming.  I follow enough shows as it is.
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 01:02:53 am »
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I prefer Inspector Space-Time.
I'm not a big fan of Community.

More seriously though -- I haven't gotten into Dr. Who for a couple reasons -- the big one is that I'm kind of a completionist and very loyal to shows (I tend to stick with shows I once liked even after they fall into mediocrity or worse), so if I started on DW I would feel compelled to start at the beginning.  That leads to the second issue -- there is a LOT to get into, and it looks overwhelming.  I follow enough shows as it is.

Seconding this. I'm really curious about trying it out, but it's very daunting to get started on Doctor Who. Even ignoring all pre-reboot episodes, there's still a lot to get through.
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 01:08:04 am »
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My favorite quote is "Demons run when a good man goes to war." I like it when the Doctor shows his dark side.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 01:11:47 am »
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My favorite quote is "Demons run when a good man goes to war." I like it when the Doctor shows his dark side.

Isn't that a light side?  Or is he the demon in the quote? :P

Ahh, one other reason I'm hesitant to jump on the bandwagon is that I have heard some terrible things about Moffat's writing.  Like, rampant sexism?  So there's that.  I should ask my friend what she thinks of more recent episodes/seasons.  She was a fan before.  Not sure if she still is.  I'm pretty sure some of the Moffat criticism I've seen was passed through her blog, but I'm not sure it got bad enough that she stopped following.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 01:12:55 am by eHalcyon »
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gman314

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2013, 01:16:23 am »
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My favorite quote is "Demons run when a good man goes to war." I like it when the Doctor shows his dark side.

Isn't that a light side?  Or is he the demon in the quote? :P

IIRC, he's the good man. But generally he's the one running. From basically everything.
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Dsell

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2013, 01:16:34 am »
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I love the show! I'd even call myself a fan, though not quite on the level of some of the others above. :P I really have to agree with a lot of what Polk said, seasons 5 and later of the revival really hooked me, and they interested me more than enough to go back and watch 1-4 (well, most of season 1). The only classic Who I've seen is The Three Doctors, which was horrible. I didn't finish it. I'm curious to go back and see some others, if only to laugh at them (and maybe find a few good ones too).

Matt Smith is my favorite doctor but David Tenant is terrific too. I'd love to have seen David Tenant in some episodes with higher production quality so I'm very excited about the 50th anniversary special. The Ponds are my favorite companions but honestly I really like all of them. I LOVE Riversong. Her episodes tend to be my favorites, she might just be my favorite character in the whole Who universe. I'm not emotionally prepared for when her arc will inevitably end.

I'm not sure if I have a favorite alien or episode, though a few do come to mind. The angels are of course terrific and Blink is a superb episode. Each angels episode brings consistency new issues to the table, but eh, consistency has never been Who's strong point. The Master's arc was exciting, loved those episodes. The Silence are delightfully creepy and that season's arc (can you tell I like well-developed story arcs??) was compelling. I loved Nightmare in Silver from season 7 a lot as well, just a really nice one-off episode.
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Dsell

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2013, 01:17:51 am »
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My favorite quote is "Demons run when a good man goes to war." I like it when the Doctor shows his dark side.

Oh I LOVE this episode too. Again, Riversong...it was all very exciting.
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gman314

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2013, 01:20:21 am »
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Matt Smith is my favorite doctor but David Tenant is terrific too. I'd love to have seen David Tenant in some episodes with higher production quality so I'm very excited about the 50th anniversary special. The Ponds are my favorite companions but honestly I really like all of them. I LOVE Riversong. Her episodes tend to be my favorites, she might just be my favorite character in the whole Who universe. I'm not emotionally prepared for when her arc will inevitably end.

It "ended" when we first met her. Sort of. She did die!
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2013, 01:27:11 am »
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Matt Smith is my favorite doctor but David Tenant is terrific too. I'd love to have seen David Tenant in some episodes with higher production quality so I'm very excited about the 50th anniversary special. The Ponds are my favorite companions but honestly I really like all of them. I LOVE Riversong. Her episodes tend to be my favorites, she might just be my favorite character in the whole Who universe. I'm not emotionally prepared for when her arc will inevitably end.

It "ended" when we first met her. Sort of. She did die!

I know I know I know. But surely there will be some sort of hoopla whenshe actually leaves.
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Galzria

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2013, 01:29:20 am »
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My favorite quote is "Demons run when a good man goes to war." I like it when the Doctor shows his dark side.

Isn't that a light side?  Or is he the demon in the quote? :P

Ahh, one other reason I'm hesitant to jump on the bandwagon is that I have heard some terrible things about Moffat's writing.  Like, rampant sexism?  So there's that.  I should ask my friend what she thinks of more recent episodes/seasons.  She was a fan before.  Not sure if she still is.  I'm pretty sure some of the Moffat criticism I've seen was passed through her blog, but I'm not sure it got bad enough that she stopped following.

Well.... To be fair, for much of the show's history it's been "The Doctor and his Female Companion(s)", with the occasional male companion thrown in (granted, some of the best characters where men traveling with him). Still, it's always fired on all cylinders best when it's been "Alien Male lead that the viewer doesn't associate with, accompanied by Human Female that could be Jane anygirl from down the street". And that's not to say that "sexism" is the driving motive, it's just how it's been.

Now, before the reboot, while there were at times SOME gender tension, it was never really the focus. RTD really brought about the fawning female in Rose, and followed that right up with Martha. Donna then, was a breath of fresh air as her attraction to the Doctor was VERY non-physical.

That's when Moffat took over, and yes, in Amy's character there was a lot of... "I'm a woman, and you will recognize this!", from her clothes, to her attitude. I think that's why a lot of people appreciated both the inclusion of River and Rory, because they softened the tension between Amy/Doctor that was, at times, a little uncomfortable (not just for the characters, but for the viewers).

Clara, the newest companion, also brings an aura of sexuality with her, but it's vastly different to Amy's. Whereas Amy was, in many ways, a "boy toy", Clara seems to flirt right along with whatever gender/species/whatever she happens to be talking to. However, it's a much more subdued flirting, and isn't as obtrusive on the storyline of the episodes.

In many ways for Moffat, I think he approaches Doctor Who a little bit TOO much like Coupling (Wonderful show, btw. Although you need to enjoy sexual tension for the sake of sexual tension. Still, well written and fun all the way around). He's trying too hard to make a Sci-Fi show into a drama/romp. That said, if a season is 13 episodes long, the head writer is usually responsible for MAYBE 5 of them (Opening/Ending, possible 2-parter, maybe 1 more). The rest are by other writers (Neil Gaiman, Neil Cross, Chris Chibnall, Mark Gatiss, etc are all current - and phenomenal - writers).

Anyway, long story short, "Sexism" isn't rampant, per se, but is a little bit of an underlying thread since the show began 50 years ago. Certainly I think Rose & Amy have been the "worst" cases of it since the show was created (well, if we're not judging JUST on outfits anyway. Some of the outfits back in the 70's... whew boy.), but overall it's not a huge detraction from what the show is really all about.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

Archetype

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2013, 02:03:08 am »
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I prefer Inspector Space-Time.
I'm not a big fan of Community.

More seriously though -- I haven't gotten into Dr. Who for a couple reasons -- the big one is that I'm kind of a completionist and very loyal to shows (I tend to stick with shows I once liked even after they fall into mediocrity or worse), so if I started on DW I would feel compelled to start at the beginning.  That leads to the second issue -- there is a LOT to get into, and it looks overwhelming.  I follow enough shows as it is.

Seconding this. I'm really curious about trying it out, but it's very daunting to get started on Doctor Who. Even ignoring all pre-reboot episodes, there's still a lot to get through.
Well if you guys do start watching, I'd highly suggest starting with 'Blink'. It's a standalone episode with almost entirely new charachters that aren't in any other episodes. From there, I'd pick the first episode of a Season of your choice. I went with 'Eleventh Hour', but that's mainly because of the buzz the season after it was getting, and you don't want to start with the first episode of that season.

Or you can just jump around from what seems coolest. Granted, that's a lot easier to do with the seasons with the 9th/10th Doctor since there's  almost no season-long storyline during those episodes. If you were to do that, I'd suggest Gridlock.

 
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2013, 02:11:31 am »
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Based on what I've seen on Tumblr, the episode I'd want to watch is the one about Van Gogh.  I know the basic premise of Blink as well, and that would be interesting.

On the topic of sexism, I think this article is a decent summary of the concerns I'm talking about.  It's a bit milder than other criticisms I've seen.
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Galzria

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2013, 02:15:48 am »
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Honestly, as others have said, Blink is a great first episode to get your feet wet. It has no major impact on any other episode or major story point, and is just really, really good (Moffat at his best, although The Empty Child // The Doctor Dances, as well as Silence in the Library // Forest of the Dead - all great episodes. Heck, so is Girl in the Fireplace for that matter...).

After that though, I really do think Russel T. Davis did a great job reintroducing the show. While you can certainly start at the beginning of any season (I don't recommend jumping into the middle), "Season 1" of the reboot really established a firm sense of "This is what the show is", and allowed what followed to build off of that.

If you absolutely don't want to start with "Rose", I would jump all the way to "The Eleventh Hour". While I hate to say skipping over anything Tennant is a good idea, the way the seasons were written and characters reintroduced up that point, if you miss out on "Season 1", you'll constantly feel like you've missed back story. With the introduction of Matt Smith, and more importantly, Steven Moffat, **almost** all ties to the past few seasons were severed, and you get a new, fresh start without feeling like you're missing out.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

Dsell

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2013, 02:21:16 am »
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I would echo all of this for anyone wanting to get into the show. The only thing I would add is not to let the cheesiness of the first couple episodes of season 1 dissuade you from watching. It gets better, and then later on it gets a LOT better.

For people starting with season 5, I actually think Blink and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead are good and (eventually) important pre-requisites.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2013, 02:21:59 am »
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If/when I start, I suppose I would start from the very beginning of the reboot(?) which is... Rose and the ninth doctor?  Is that right?

Tumblr has already spoiled some things for me, but not in a way I fully understand.  Like, I know that something tragic happens with Rose and the doctor, something about people being trapped in different dimensions or something but I'm not sure how it plays out in the slightest.  I even tried reading a DW wiki about it at some point and it didn't really make sense to me -- probably something you need to actually watch.



Cheesiness wouldn't deter me.  I got through Buffy last summer.
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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2013, 02:41:39 am »
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Based on what I've seen on Tumblr, the episode I'd want to watch is the one about Van Gogh.  I know the basic premise of Blink as well, and that would be interesting.

On the topic of sexism, I think this article is a decent summary of the concerns I'm talking about.  It's a bit milder than other criticisms I've seen.

The article is somewhat right, and somewhat biased towards what it wants to see. Regarding the kiss with "Jenny", they're spot on. That was so forced and really OUT of character for the Doctor that it was incredibly awkward. In the past, under Moffat, the Doctor has been forcibly kissed by (off the top of my head) two women and both times was... very uncomfortable/fidgity/squeemish - it was obviously something he wasn't accustomed to and was uncomfortable with himself. In one case, like the kiss with Jenny, it felt forced, although at least it matched the character's personality. The second kiss actually fit the story, and I can't really knock its inclusion.

Where the article goes off, I think, is in its criticism of River - because it doesn't take into consideration her entire storyline. The article is actually objectifying her more by complaining that she isn't what the author feels a real woman should be - whereas in the context of Doctor Who she was exactly what she needed to be.

When it comes to Clara and her first season of Doctor Who, I think Moffat was trying to move away from characters like Amy or River, who were... Well, as I mentioned before, and the Article you link mentions, Doctor Who used to give a feeling like the companion could be "Jane anybody". She was interesting -because- she could be *you* (or rather, just some random girl that he meets on the street). Neither Amy nor River had this quality, and thus they became too far from being "real" in the sense that people couldn't connect with them (Rory on the other hand, was written wonderfully, as he really was your "unspectacular in every way yet completely wonderful person"). I think Moffat got caught in wanting to introduce a "normal" character again with Clara, but didn't want her to be bland. So he tried to make her both "The most normal, average girl possible", while also generating a huge mystery around her. Did it fall a little flat at times? Yes. Unfortunately, I think the writing floundered a little in this latest season. It was full of great stories to tell, but I could've put any companion I chose into each story and it wouldn't really have changed anything. There was nothing directly personable about Clara, and nothing that made her, as a character, truly unique.

And maybe that's what Moffat was aiming for. Certainly there is SOME sense that he did indeed set that goal. I just think the execution could've been done a little better. Still, the stories were very strong throughout, and Clara's sometimes generic participation aside (no knock on Jenna Luise Coleman, who was very, very good opposite Smith's Doctor), the season was very enjoyable and set up some very interesting plot points to move forward with.

It's important to note that when the Article says "Clara was born to save the Doctor", those are her words, and aren't entirely taken within context. If anything, it's a season of a story about Cause and Effect. I have high hopes for next year with Clara, as she's now been established, I do believe some of the "generic companion" feeling that she was written early on will start to subside, as the "mystery" is solved, and the writers don't have to "hide" anything anymore.
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Dsell

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Re: Dr. Who
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2013, 02:47:58 am »
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I really felt like there was a fairly stark difference between the first half of season 7 part 2 (the Christmas special and beyond - everything with clara) and the second half. I liked the stories and episodes in the first half just fine but the stories and character really developed much better in the final episodes of the season. Of course, the first half of season 7 proper (with the Ponds) was a pretty fun romp that had some real high points.
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