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Author Topic: I do not understand how to use Governor.  (Read 1584 times)

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SirPeebles

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I do not understand how to use Governor.
« on: June 19, 2013, 09:58:30 pm »
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http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130619/log.505c56d8a2e6c78ad2ed5a68.1371693159075.txt

This seemed like a great board for Governor.  There was Border Village to get a free $6 cost card with Governor, and there was Moneylender to trash out Copper.  In the end though, as always, the megaturn is a complete flop.  It's so hard to ever have more than one Governor in hand!  The +3 Cards option simply does not seem to work.
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DG

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 10:24:11 pm »
+2

and Lord Bottington does not understand how to use Journeyman.

---------- Lord Bottington: turn 3 ----------
Lord Bottington - plays Journeyman
Lord Bottington - names Copper
Lord Bottington - reveals Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - discards: Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - plays 1 Copper
Lord Bottington - shuffles deck
Lord Bottington - draws Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 10:25:19 pm by DG »
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SirPeebles

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2013, 10:38:36 pm »
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And in turn 12 he named Silver!  He had no spare actions.  Man, now I feel even worse for losing.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 11:18:52 pm »
+2

I don't really know how to play Governor either. Nor do I really know of anyone who does, but there are a few things I can say about your game:

1. Pure Governor is generally not that good vs terminal draw big money. All the benefits are really good for them. Vs engines or in mirrors, the Silvers hurt, but here they help.

2. You need more drawing or sifting support to really pull off a mega-turn. If you're getting the draw from Governors, you won't have enough left to do the trashing 6->Prov. Here with the Border Villages, you could get some Journeymen. You might even think of adding an Armory to gain Spies/Fortresses. Incidentally, trashing Fortresses is good.

3. You don't want to have multiple "mega-turns". You can start remodeling into Provinces sooner on small turns, and then just go for one 3 Prov turn on your last turn. You don't want to play 3+ Governors for draw if you're not ending the game that turn. For example, on turn 11, you could just draw once, then remodel Gold->Prov and buy another Governor.

4. You should maybe think about using the trash instead of the gain Gold sometimes, especially since the Silver doesn't really hurt your opponent, and especially when you can do 2 in one turn, since they are less likely to want to trash 2 cards out of their hand in the mid-game. For example, on turn 7, you could have gone Moneylender->BV+Gov, Estate->Moneylender instead of gaining 2 Golds and trashing a Copper.
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DrFlux

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 11:29:55 pm »
+1

Similar to hive mind, I think you gained gold too many times.

I think we have this idea of governor that is like this:
1. only gain gold till you start buying provinces
2. THEN use the other two options for a mega turn

But I think you win games by being more nuanced.

There were a couple of turns where you bought nothing, why not buy at least a haven? Also, on mid-game turns with a govenor or two and $1-4, you might want to consider using draw. Even if it helps your opponent, buying more governors/journeymen is important to your strategy. It just seems a waste to not use $3, so I'd draw more cards till I get $5 and then use the rest to give gold.
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Robz888

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 12:53:52 am »
+1

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130619/log.505c56d8a2e6c78ad2ed5a68.1371693159075.txt

This seemed like a great board for Governor.  There was Border Village to get a free $6 cost card with Governor, and there was Moneylender to trash out Copper.  In the end though, as always, the megaturn is a complete flop.  It's so hard to ever have more than one Governor in hand!  The +3 Cards option simply does not seem to work.

This is a great board for Governor, and I am positive the Governor stack is the way to go. You have really good Governor trashing in the form of Moneylender (Governor deck just want to get rid of Copper really badly), and you have great Governor remodel fodder in the form of Border Village. And all the non-terminal $4s are pretty good in the mirror (although LB doesn't play it here), since you can defensively trash them.

On Turn 5, I would draw, instead of gain a Gold. You want more Governors fast, and more players of Moneylender. You don't need cash yet.
On Turn 7, again I would play at least 1 Governor for draw.
On Turn 8, okay, you are just gaining way, way, way too much Gold. You don't even need Gold, man. You can remodel BV into Province! All the money is just getting in the way.

Umm... yeah. That did it, I think. Gold is for later once you have lots of Governors and a thin deck hopefully from trashing. Didn't even need any Gold, with all those BVs. The main thing is, you never want to gain Gold if you could have bought another Governor, for at least the first 7 turns or so.

I should note that usually your opponent goes for Governor, too, and you end up with Silvers. You should use Governor to remodel them into Governors. They just get in the way.

Here's my best "Win Simply With Governor" example game: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6625.0
And here's my article on Governor, which is a tad outdated, but still: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2878.0
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loppo

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 02:27:43 am »
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and Lord Bottington does not understand how to use Journeyman.

---------- Lord Bottington: turn 3 ----------
Lord Bottington - plays Journeyman
Lord Bottington - names Copper
Lord Bottington - reveals Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - discards: Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - plays 1 Copper
Lord Bottington - shuffles deck
Lord Bottington - draws Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper


he has learned fast:
---------- Lord Bottington: turn 3 ----------
Lord Bottington - plays Journeyman
Lord Bottington - names Estate
Lord Bottington - reveals Estate, Copper, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - discards Estate
Lord Bottington - places cards in hand:  Copper, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - plays 6 Copper
Lord Bottington - buys Gold
Lord Bottington - gains Gold
Lord Bottington - draws Estate, Copper
Lord Bottington - shuffles deck
Lord Bottington - draws Copper, Journeyman, Copper
 
---------- Lord Bottington: turn 4 ----------
Lord Bottington - plays Journeyman
Lord Bottington - names Estate
Lord Bottington - reveals Gold, Estate, Estate, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - discards: Estate, Estate
Lord Bottington - places cards in hand:  Gold, Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - plays 5 Copper, 1 Gold
Lord Bottington - buys Province
Lord Bottington - gains Province
Lord Bottington - draws Copper, Copper
Lord Bottington - shuffles deck
Lord Bottington - draws Copper, Copper, Copper

this game told me Journeyman must be quite good in BM
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 02:31:34 am by loppo »
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SirPeebles

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 11:23:52 am »
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Thanks for the replies.  The understanding I'd gotten from previous discussions is that you nearly always want to gain Gold before the megaturn, and that giving your opponent the +1 card or a chance to remodel before then is a sucker move.  I guess that was wrong.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: I do not understand how to use Governor.
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 12:16:57 pm »
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Thanks for the replies.  The understanding I'd gotten from previous discussions is that you nearly always want to gain Gold before the megaturn, and that giving your opponent the +1 card or a chance to remodel before then is a sucker move.  I guess that was wrong.

The thing about Governor is that it's a very complex card. If you're programming a bot to play it, then sure gain Gold until late or just +cards every time are the 2 simple ways to play it (those are the two things programmed into Geronimoo's simulator). But in a real game, you have to do a little bit of thinking about how much your choice does for you and how much it does for your opponent, as well as what's going to happen if you play multiple Governors. Draw then trash is really good for your opponent, but trash then trash again is not, generally. Gain Gold is not useful if you have Border Villages to remodel anyway.

In this game, I think you may need to gain some Golds to have economy, though maybe you can just get away with building a full draw with BV/Journeyman and repeatedly "trash" a Fortress to gain BV+Gov.
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