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[Matt_Arnold]

"The Tunnel reaction seems excessively situational." Thus sayeth some of my compatriots at game night. Oh, not so, my friend.

Cards that can discard from your hand:
Cellar
Secret Chamber
Warehouse
Tactician
Hamlet
Horse Traders
Young Witch
Embassy
Inn
Oasis

Cards that can discard from your opponents' hand:
Militia
Minion
Torturer
Goons
Followers
Margrave

Cards that can discard from your deck:
Spy
Library
Adventurer
Lookout
Navigator
Envoy
Scrying Pool
Golem
Loan
Venture
Farming Village
Harvest
Hunting Party
Cartographer
Duchess
Jack of All Trades
Oracle

Cards that can discard from your opponents' deck:
Pirate Ship
Spy
Thief
Tribute
Sea Hag
Scrying Pool
Jester
Duchess
Noble Brigand
Oracle

I guess Saboteur, if Bridge has been played?

<Edited: Thanks for reminding me of Pirate Ship!>

[Jimmmmm]

An excellent retort to your compatriots would be "Tunnel is a good card even without the reaction." Tunnel can change the game in that especially if you start buying them they can make discard attacks less of a no-brainer. Like, do you really want to get a Militia if it's just going to feed Golds to your opponent?

[guided]

I think Tunnel's best common use case (other than as a workaday endgame VP card - $3 for 2 VPs is quite good if you don't make it to $5 for a Duchy) is probably defending against discard attacks. Now I've never thought it looked "extremely situational" at all, since there are so many ways to discard cards, but having played around with it a bit... I must say that it is so slow at actually getting Gold into your hand (while clogging your deck in the meantime) that it's quite difficult to find Tunnel strategies that are strong while relying on discarding it during your own turn to produce Gold. I posted on BGG that I felt after some experience that $3 is just the right price for it, given how much time and effort is required to finally convert a Tunnel into one or more Golds in hand.

I believe there can be strong strategies that involve discarding Tunnels on your turn using other action cards (maybe especially if Crossroads is involved?), but they are much less common than I expected they might be when I first saw the card.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I'd say that the majority of proactive Tunnel strategies are rather slow.  If you have played enough Hoard games you realize, though it is a strong card and often useful, that Hoard can actually slow down VP acquisition by the tune of -$1, at least initially.  The Gold you gain goes into the discard, which is about the worst place it can be.  Tunnel is a dead card in hand, even with a way to discard it; is not worth even the $2 that Hoard provides.

So, it requires more than one activation of each Tunnel to gain a measurable improvement of deck economy.  The first Gold gained average out to $1.5 value added to the deck, less than a Silver.  The second Gold improves the average to $2: two Golds + Tunnel = $6/3, a Silver.  You can also add the 2VP as a measurement to the value, for what it is worth, and that 2 Gold + Tunnel may be better than 3 Silver at getting to $8 hands. 

As far as specific proactive strategies, my opinion is that Embassy is about the best one.  It cycles like mad and Tunnel is a perfect discard.  Virtually every activation of Embassy improves the buying power of the deck and the buying power of the hand that it is played in.

[Elyv]

I really, really like tunnel/warehouse, since the warehouse is cheap and cycles fairly quickly. The first time I ever played with Tunnel, it was a game with both warehouse and lookout, and there were only 6 gold left in the gold pile at the end of the game.

On an unrelated note, vault can also allow you to discard tunnel from your hand and library can't make you discard it from your deck.

[philosophyguy]

How late in the game should you be still willing to use Tunnel's reaction ability? I'm guessing it's similar to the Gold-versus-Duchy decision in terms of timing (more than one shuffle = Gold; less than one shuffle = Duchy; exactly 1 shuffle depends on your and luck), but I'm not certain. Any thoughts?

[ehunt]

@philosophyguy - Wouldn't you always use the ability? (Unless you're in some pretty special circumstances, like a minion deck, in which case, why did you buy tunnel?) It doesn't trade off with anything.

[philosophyguy]

My bad; I thought Tunnel's reaction required you to trash Tunnel for some reason. No wonder I've been doing so badly in Tunnel games.

[ehunt]

Actually, immediately after writing this, I got devastated by someone going minion/tunnel.

[guided]

I've still never seen Embassy on a board. I've seen most of the other Hinterlands cards several times though. That does strike me as a pretty good combo with Tunnel.

[Biderman]

Actually, immediately after writing this, I got devastated by someone going minion/tunnel.

This sounds like the best stratagy to me, as Minion allows for a very fast reshuffle rate to take advantage of the Golds, as well as a high likelyhood of being able to discard tunnels. Golem would be completely evil in a deck with only Tunnel, money, and VPs...

[Thisisnotasmile]

Minion's fine with Tunnel as long as you don't expect to end up with a conventional Minion deck. Use your (and you opponents') Minions to get through your Tunnels, then use Gold for your buying power. You probably don't even mind letting your opponent(s) get the majority of the Minions if you're going Tunnels.

[ehunt]

Rules clarification - is there an official ruling that "put[ting] your deck in your discard pile" with chancellor is not the same thing as discarding it?

[Thisisnotasmile]

Rules clarification - is there an official ruling that "put[ting] your deck in your discard pile" with chancellor is not the same thing as discarding it?

Yes, there is.

[Matt_Arnold]

having played around with it a bit... I must say that it is so slow at actually getting Gold into your hand (while clogging your deck in the meantime) that it's quite difficult to find Tunnel strategies that are strong while relying on discarding it during your own turn to produce Gold.

I don't understand. I've never heard anyone complain when they end their turn with $6 in hand and buy a Gold. It's considered the second-best turn you can have (on most boards). But it goes into their discard pile just the same. If you discard one Tunnel, gain a Gold, and have a hand that can't buy anything, how is that worse? Or more clogged? Or slower?

[biopower]

I don't understand. I've never heard anyone complain when they end their turn with $6 in hand and buy a Gold. It's considered the second-best turn you can have (on most boards). But it goes into their discard pile just the same. If you discard one Tunnel, gain a Gold, and have a hand that can't buy anything, how is that worse? Or more clogged? Or slower?

You have to match the discarding action to Tunnel in the hand to get the Gold. Unless there are a lot of discarding actions or a single really good one (militia/warehouse), matching them up is almost like Treasure Maps. In the meanwhile, the deck is more clogged (there's more green in your deck until you hit), and you get less benefit than from Maps.

[Nitsuj]

I've combo'd Minion and Tunnels like 2 time so far, and once with Oasis/Inn.  I really liked it early, and was cruising with what felt like a gazillion gold pretty quick, but can see how it clogs up a bit. However, clogged up with 8 to 10 VP is a nice spot to be in, because now you realistically have to get 3 provinces to have a good chance to win - or your opponent clogs their deck up and its a non-issue.

I don't think its awful, but the one game my opponent used MINT and was getting just as many golds but was able to use the one in his hand, unlike me who had to play a 4 card hand (essentially) to get a gold for the future.  With that epiphany I decided that tunnel isn't really great.

[Thisisnotasmile]

I don't think its awful, but the one game my opponent used MINT and was getting just as many golds but was able to use the one in his hand, unlike me who had to play a 4 card hand (essentially) to get a gold for the future.  With that epiphany I decided that tunnel isn't really great.

Every turn you Tunneled a Gold, you played a 4 card hand. Every time he Minted a Gold, he played a 4 card hand.

[biopower]

Every turn you Tunneled a Gold, you played a 4 card hand. Every time he Minted a Gold, he played a 4 card hand.

He played a 4 card hand with Gold in it, as opposed to a hand without.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Every turn you Tunneled a Gold, you played a 4 card hand. Every time he Minted a Gold, he played a 4 card hand.

He played a 4 card hand with Gold in it, as opposed to a hand without.

There's nothing saying the Tunnel hands didn't have a Gold in them. In fact I'd suggest that they did just as often as the Mint hands, since they were both producing Gold at a similar rate (or at least have the potential to). Everytime the Mint deck drew Mint without Gold, they played a 4 card hand and didn't produce a new Gold.

[Epoch]

My conclusion about buying Tunnels with the intent to discard them yourself: it's better than pure Big Money, but it's by no means a stellar, unbeatable strategy.  It's shocking how much the Tunnels hurt your buying power until quite late in the game.

Mint versus Tunnel: Of course, the deal with Mint is that hopefully you trashed at least 4 Copper with it, and the power of Mint is drastically increased in a thin deck, where it is likely to coincide with Gold (and your hand is not as badly hurt by the Mint card, because it's a thin, powerful deck).

[Matt_Arnold]

I just played a game with a Mint/Cellar/Tunnel strategy. I got 5 on the first turn and bought Mint to trash it; bought a Cellar on turn 2. Third and fourth turns, Mint a Copper. Then I spent 3 Coppers on a Tunnel, which I started Cellaring a lot because I hardly had anything in my deck.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/25/game-20111025-190530-a84d4630.html

Still didn't win though. It was slower than I expected.

[ImperialStout]

At this point, it seems that most viable Tunnel->Gold strategies will be those that rely on discarding cards later in the deck rather than in the hand.  The opportunity cost to having Tunnels in a deck with Navigator/Cartographer is relatively low (you are using a discard slot on a card that otherwise would not be in the deck, and occasionally pulling the card in your hand) whereas the opportunity cost to having Tunnels in a discard from hand deck is far higher because of the aforementioned fact that you are effectively limiting yourself to a 4 (or potentially 3 if you would not otherwise have purchased a cellar or secret chamber) hand. 

Note that this does not hold for decks where your purchase of the discard from hand card is not contingent on you executing a Tunnel->Gold strategy.  Obvious examples are Minion where you were not trashing down to a pure Minion deck, and Vault. 

[Anon79]

I just played a game with a Mint/Cellar/Tunnel strategy. I got 5 on the first turn and bought Mint to trash it; bought a Cellar on turn 2. Third and fourth turns, Mint a Copper. Then I spent 3 Coppers on a Tunnel, which I started Cellaring a lot because I hardly had anything in my deck.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/25/game-20111025-190530-a84d4630.html

Still didn't win though. It was slower than I expected.

What about opening Tunnel/Cellar?

[Kuildeous]

What about opening Tunnel/Cellar?

I'd have to say this sounds more appealing. If Tunnel only cost $2, I'd say that a Mint/Cellar opening could be awesome.

But, in general, I do not buy a Mint in the first two hands unless there is a card that can actually help me get up to $3 or $4. Embargo and Secret Chamber are the only ones I'd consider pairing with Mint. And even Embargo has its risks.

Using Mint to trash 5 Coppers only to buy back one or two is probably the greater handicap.

Although, if Tunnel was out there, I'd gladly open Mint/Secret Chamber.