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[Schneau]

It seems very reasonable to do identical starting split without the ordering of the Coppers and Estates being the same.

[Stealth Tomato]

What if you started with identical hands, but your other five cards begin in the discard rather than the draw pile?  In particular, it would usually be possible to draw your t1 purchase right away.

*twitch*

[ftl]

Talk about having a huge difference between 5/2 and 2/5!

[cluckyb]

Actually colliding or not colliding Chapel with your opening terminal is probably more important than opening Chapel/$5 or Chapel/$4. And they collide quite a lot of time, while Chapel/$5 isn't very frequent. Therefore, I don't think Chapel being $2 instead of $3 or $4 makes things too luck-based.

Isn't the issue that if Chapel costs $3 and you get a $2/$5 split, you are stuck with $2/Chapel? The difference between Chapel/$4 and $2/Chapel is bigger than the difference between Chapel/$4 and Chapel/$5, especially if there aren't any other $2s on the board. So because Chapel is not the kind of card you want lots of, the $2 price is actually perfectly reasonable despite its power, just like  "If this is the first time you've played this card this game, each other player gains 5 curses" would also be properly priced at $2

[Awaclus]

Actually colliding or not colliding Chapel with your opening terminal is probably more important than opening Chapel/$5 or Chapel/$4. And they collide quite a lot of time, while Chapel/$5 isn't very frequent. Therefore, I don't think Chapel being $2 instead of $3 or $4 makes things too luck-based.

Isn't the issue that if Chapel costs $3 and you get a $2/$5 split, you are stuck with $2/Chapel? The difference between Chapel/$4 and $2/Chapel is bigger than the difference between Chapel/$4 and Chapel/$5, especially if there aren't any other $2s on the board. So because Chapel is not the kind of card you want lots of, the $2 price is actually perfectly reasonable despite its power, just like  "If this is the first time you've played this card this game, each other player gains 5 curses" would also be properly priced at $2

Yes, that's the main issue. I was just saying that the opening is not even the most important way in which the current Chapel causes lucky draws being especially powerful or unlucky draws being especially weak.

[Warfreak2]

I was just saying that the opening is not even the most important way in which the current Chapel causes lucky draws being especially powerful or unlucky draws being especially weak.

Super Duper Chapel: Chapel/Copper/Estate/Estate/Estate, and next turn buy a Witch. Oh Snapel: Chapel/Copper/Copper/Copper/Copper, next turn decline to buy a second Chapel.

[popsofctown]

Actually colliding or not colliding Chapel with your opening terminal is probably more important than opening Chapel/$5 or Chapel/$4. And they collide quite a lot of time, while Chapel/$5 isn't very frequent. Therefore, I don't think Chapel being $2 instead of $3 or $4 makes things too luck-based.

Isn't the issue that if Chapel costs $3 and you get a $2/$5 split, you are stuck with $2/Chapel? The difference between Chapel/$4 and $2/Chapel is bigger than the difference between Chapel/$4 and Chapel/$5, especially if there aren't any other $2s on the board. So because Chapel is not the kind of card you want lots of, the $2 price is actually perfectly reasonable despite its power, just like  "If this is the first time you've played this card this game, each other player gains 5 curses" would also be properly priced at $2

MM, Trading Post - Cluckattack opening against a 3/4 player.  Deliciousness.

[Warfreak2]

"If this is the first time you've played this card this game, each other player gains 5 curses"

MM, Trading Post - Cluckattack opening against a 3/4 player.  Deliciousness.

Or being player three...

[Axxle]

Chapel
Action - $4*
Trash up to 4 cards from your hand.
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This costs $2 less if it is past your 2nd turn of the game.

[Stealth Tomato]

Church
Action - $2

Trash up to 4 cards from your hand.
----------------------
When you buy this, gain a Silver. Skip the Action and Buy phases of your next turn.

[Davio]

Chapel - $2
Trash up to 4 cards from your hand, and stop complaining.

[SirPeebles]

Talk about having a huge difference between 5/2 and 2/5!

But you have an identical starting hand.  So yeah, in some games we both start with $5.  In some we both start with $2.  And there is no randomness triggered before we make a decision, aside from player 1 buying a Noble Brigand.

[Stealth Tomato]

Chapel - $2
Trash up to 4 cards from your hand, and stop complaining.

Confessional - $2
Trash up to 4 cards from your hand, then complain about the luck factor of strong early trashing.