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[jonts26]

THIS is the obvious predictions thread. I'll start.

Not all the predictions in the Bold Predictions thread will be accurate.
At some point, someone will misjudge the strength of one or more cards from Guilds.
Playing Guilds will be an enjoyable experience for people who are fans of Dominion.

[Schneau]

Masterpiece will almost never be bought without overpaying.

[Mic Qsenoch]

Your father will love the Butcher/Baker/Candlestick Maker joke.

[Watno]

Scout will be a bad card

[SirPeebles]

Spending the coin tokens earned from Merchant Guild during the same buy phase will be a common question/mistake.

Swindling $3 cards into Masterpiece will be common.  But Donald will still tease us about how giving a Swindler is often better.

[brokoli]

Highway, Bridge and Quarry will all combo well with Stonemason

[greatexpectations]

__________ will go great with King's Court!

[liopoil]

___________ will combo with watchtower!

[WheresMyElephant]

Highway, Bridge and Quarry will all combo well with Stonemason

Can you overpay $0? I assume if so you can also choose to NOT overpay $0 (otherwise you'll have to pay $3 to keep from gaining Ruins).

[Witherweaver]

There will be more "BUT HOW DOES IT COMBO WITH SCOUT?" discussion.

[jonts26]

Highway, Bridge and Quarry will all combo well with Stonemason

Can you overpay $0? I assume if so you can also choose to NOT overpay $0 (otherwise you'll have to pay $3 to keep from gaining Ruins).

You can't overpay by $0 i'm pretty sure. But if you play 4 bridges, you can pay $1 for stone mason and get 2 normally $5 actions. And with all those extra buys, you can really amass a ton of high cost actions.

[Watno]

That's an interesting question. I think from the way it's worded "You may overpay...", you can overpay $0, but you can also choose not to.

[shMerker]

It's a question of how overpay is actually defined. I'm sure the rulebook explicitly says whether overpaying $0 is a thing you can do.

More interesting to me is, the way Stonemason is worded (no reference to "cost in coins") I'm pretty sure you can overpay with potion to get multiple potion-cost cards, which actually seems like it could be pretty awesome.

[jonts26]

It's a question of how overpay is actually defined. I'm sure the rulebook explicitly says whether overpaying $0 is a thing you can do.

More interesting to me is, the way Stonemason is worded (no reference to "cost in coins") I'm pretty sure you can overpay with potion to get multiple potion-cost cards, which actually seems like it could be pretty awesome.

$4P to gain a stonemason and 2 scrying pools? Then you can stonemason a pool for 2 vineyards? Yes, plesase!

[Beyond Awesome]

Makes Stonemason even better. And, if you can overpay by $0, then it really does seem like it will be a power card.

[liopoil]

you'll only want to overpay for 0 if you want ruins or there are peddlers though... also overpaying by a potion for a vineyard/transmute, but that's not overpaying by 0, that's overpaying by a potion. So overpaying by 0 isn't a huge buff to the card.

[Beyond Awesome]

you'll only want to overpay for 0 if you want ruins or there are peddlers though... also overpaying by a potion for a vineyard/transmute, but that's not overpaying by 0, that's overpaying by a potion. So overpaying by 0 isn't a huge buff to the card.

Overpaying for $0 also helps with cost-reducers like Highway.

[jonts26]

you'll only want to overpay for 0 if you want ruins or there are peddlers though... also overpaying by a potion for a vineyard/transmute, but that's not overpaying by 0, that's overpaying by a potion. So overpaying by 0 isn't a huge buff to the card.

Vineyards isnt an action card. Otherwise, yeah, overpaying by $0 isn't all that useful, unless there are peddlers or you play a ton of bridges or highways to make everything cost $0. Still, by any reasonable definition of overpay, I'm not sure how overpaying by $0 should be a thing.

[SirPeebles]

We'll have to wait and see the rule book for precisely how overpayment works.  I suspect that, if you choose to overpay, it will have to be in coins and will need to be by at least one.  Overpayment by zero is certainly conceivable, but I would be surprised to see Potions allowed.  That said, it would be really cool if Potions were allowed, as it would be allow Donald to buff potions without explicitly referring to them.

[Watno]

Ît would be awesome if you could overpay potions, so I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed.

[SirPeebles]

you'll only want to overpay for 0 if you want ruins or there are peddlers though... also overpaying by a potion for a vineyard/transmute, but that's not overpaying by 0, that's overpaying by a potion. So overpaying by 0 isn't a huge buff to the card.

Vineyards isnt an action card. Otherwise, yeah, overpaying by $0 isn't all that useful, unless there are peddlers or you play a ton of bridges or highways to make everything cost $0. Still, by any reasonable definition of overpay, I'm not sure how overpaying by $0 should be a thing.

Well, overpayment already appears to be rather far from the everyday notion, since it happens as an event distinct from the payment itself.  Certainly it would be simpler from a rules perspective to permit overpayment by $0, otherwise I'll have to keep telling my friends that it is not allowed.

[jonts26]

I probably should have made this prediction earlier:

This thread will get derailed at some point.

[Beyond Awesome]

MG will be a bad card most of the time and go unbought.

[Watno]

You can overpay Potions, but not $0:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/991269/can-you-overpay-by-s0-or-potion

[Asper]

MG will be a bad card most of the time and go unbought.

I'm curious whether that will actually be the case. Maybe it's more than meets the eye.

Also i assume you can spend coin tokens on the same buy phase you get them and may(?) use a token to overpay for the card you got it for.

[jonts26]

You can overpay Potions, but not $0:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/991269/can-you-overpay-by-s0-or-potion

Common sense wins.

[LastFootnote]

MG will be a bad card most of the time and go unbought.

I think this might belong in the bold predictions thread. 

Although it's certainly possible that Merchant Guild will be underpowered in the absence of other Guilds cards. Every set should have a card like that, right? Scout, Outpost, Transmute, Contraband, Harvest, Cache, Rats. It's a tradition!

[Watno]

Rats work good with many non guilds cards, like upgrade, develop and remake.

[ftl]

Merchant Guild could work pretty well as your first $5 if you're aiming to build an engine out of cheap components. Like, if you're building a Village/Smithy engine (with Vanilla Village and Smithy, costing $3 and $4 respectively) this might be a reasonable thing to pick up in the early game for $5, if you're expecting to have a bunch of midgame turns when you're, say, spending $6 to buy 2xVillage or $8 to buy 2xSmithy.

Yes, on second thought, that seems like a very valid use case. Could speed up engine building by a good bit.

[LastFootnote]

Rats work good with many non guilds cards, like upgrade, develop and remake.

Do you think Procession is a better example?

Also i assume you can spend coin tokens on the same buy phase you get them and may(?) use a token to overpay for the card you got it for.

No, you can't. You can only cash in Coin tokens when you could play Treasure cards, a.k.a. before you buy any cards.

[jbrecken]

It will be nigh impossible to play Taxman without singing.

[Warfreak2]

♫ The millions I make, they're stressing me out, 'cause it's so damn hard to keep them away from the Taxman... ♪

[ConMan]

♫ It's one for you, nineteen for me ... ♪

[Schneau]

Taxman, like Bureaucrat, will usually be played to put Silvers on top of your deck.

[ConMan]

I agree with usually, but I suspect that it will be most useful on many boards for top-decking Gold.

[sudgy]

Merchant Guild will get confused with Market Square, like Mint and Mine (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8449.msg256098#msg256098)

[Julle]

Merchant Guild will get confused with Market Square, like Mint and Mine (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8449.msg256098#msg256098)

And merchant ship!

[brokoli]

MG will be a bad card most of the time and go unbought.

I think this might belong in the bold predictions thread. 

Although it's certainly possible that Merchant Guild will be underpowered in the absence of other Guilds cards. Every set should have a card like that, right? Scout, Outpost, Transmute, Contraband, Harvest, Cache, Rats. It's a tradition!

You are lucky we are not in the dominion card list thread, because comparing scoute and transmute to outpost and harvest is absolutely criminal.

[brokoli]

And I'm pretty sure the closer card to Merchant guild is... outpost exactly. Outpost is sometimes really awesome, I think Merchant guild will be more or less the same kind of card (with coppersmith too).

[shMerker]

MG will be a bad card most of the time and go unbought.

I think this might belong in the bold predictions thread. 

Although it's certainly possible that Merchant Guild will be underpowered in the absence of other Guilds cards. Every set should have a card like that, right? Scout, Outpost, Transmute, Contraband, Harvest, Cache, Rats. It's a tradition!

I don't see how that could really be the case. Merchant Guild might have some synergies with Guilds cards, but all it really wants you to do is play a lot of them, and every set has cards that help with that.

[StrongRhino]

Merchant Guild will get confused with Market Square, like Mint and Mine (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8449.msg256098#msg256098)

And merchant ship!

Maybe if Merchant Ship wasn't orange...

[LastFootnote]

Merchant Guild will get confused with Market Square, like Mint and Mine (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8449.msg256098#msg256098)

And merchant ship!

Maybe if Merchant Ship wasn't orange...

...and Market Square wasn't blue.

[Lhurgoyf]

Merchant Guild will get confused with Market Square, like Mint and Mine (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8449.msg256098#msg256098)

And merchant ship!

Maybe if Merchant Ship wasn't orange...

...and Market Square wasn't blue.

And wouldn't cost $3 unlike the other two which cost $5


Candlestick Maker can make those 20 Copper hands from Counting House so much more useful (non-terminal +buy).

[NoMoreFun]

The predictable uses of Stonemason's play effect:
Copper, Curse, Ruins->Nothing
Gold->Duchy/Duchy, Silver->Estate/Estate, (Platinum->Province/Province)
Estate, Shelter->Copper/Copper if there's something like Spice Merchant on the board, or if simulators here prove it's a good idea.

[Stealth Tomato]

Estate, Shelter->Copper/Copper if there's something like Spice Merchant on the board, or if simulators here prove it's a good idea.

It's not. There's a reason you almost always Ambassador 2 Copper over 1 Estate, even when you're giving up a Silver buy to do it.

[WanderingWinder]

Estate, Shelter->Copper/Copper if there's something like Spice Merchant on the board, or if simulators here prove it's a good idea.

It's not. There's a reason you almost always Ambassador 2 Copper over 1 Estate, even when you're giving up a Silver buy to do it.

A lot of that is because you are in an ambassador war, and flinging more now means tighter control to not get flooded later. Of course, this turning estate into two coppers as proposed above is terribly for (almost all) engines (more stop cards, little benefit), probably mildly good for a decent number of slogs, and bad but not the worst thing ever for big money.

[Awaclus]

Stonemasoning an Estate is a decent boost in the early game economy, but will hurt in the late game. It might be worth it if there's a $5 that you want to spam and that doesn't have a particularly strong anti-synergy with Coppers (perhaps Hunting Party? You're probably getting Stonemason anyway for double HPs) and it's totally worth it in an Apothecary deck.

[ycz6]

Rats work good with many non guilds cards, like upgrade, develop and remake.

That's not a prediction.

[PitzerMike]

Masterpiece will combo well with Feodum.