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Author Topic: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition  (Read 36595 times)

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jonts26

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Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« on: June 13, 2013, 11:28:38 am »
+2

Just as we did with Dark Ages, this is a place to make BOLD predictions. Keep your standard, run of the mill predictions out of here, man.

I'll start:

Stonemason: The overpay mechanic will make this one of the best (top 3-4) $2 cards in the game. 

Adviser: A top 10 $4 card.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 11:30:03 am »
+3

The best price to pay for Masterpiece will be $7.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 11:42:07 am »
+1

Masterpiece will make BM strategies more viable.

Stonemason will for sure be a top $2 card just for the overpay mechanic alone.

Soothsayer will be stronger than Sea Hag and IGG but weaker than Witch, Mountebank, and Cultist.

Taxman will be a decent attack near the power level of Cutpusre and Militia.

Plaza will be a strong $4 village, better than Mining Village, but not as good as Wandering Minstrel or Worker's Village

Merchant Guild will fit in perfectly in the right engine, but won't be to exciting on most boards. It will be an average $5 most of the tiem

Candlestick Maker will be an average $2 card, but the fact you can keep your coins for later helps a lot.

Advisor will be an average $4 card. But, on some boards will really shine.

Journeyman is up there with Catacombs, maybe better for terminal draw.

Butcher will be a slightly above average card in most games, but in some engines will really kill. Actually, I think it can end up being pretty strong.

Herald will be a strong $4 card.

Baker will on the same power level as Market most of the time, but the fact it changes the game from the start in my opinion makes it pretty strong even if you don't end up buying a single one the entire game

Doctor will be a solid trasher, but not as good as Forager, Chapel, or Steward. Well, I am not entirely sure about that statement. The ability to trash your cards on turn 1 does seem pretty powerful.
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Kirian

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 11:42:23 am »
+15

Soothsayer will be considered a trap card because of the Council Room aspect.
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jonts26

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 11:48:57 am »
+11

Soothsayer will be considered a trap card because of the Council Room aspect.

Thanks for keeping it bold.
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Kirian

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2013, 11:54:02 am »
+4

Soothsayer will be considered a trap card because of the Council Room aspect.

Thanks for keeping it bold.

Sure thing!
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SirPeebles

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2013, 11:55:09 am »
0

Herald will be a trap on most boards, due to 1) often missing, 2) forcing actions to be played in a suboptimal order, 3) the opportunity cost of not spending $4 on a card which does something in its own right.  Buying a Herald early will be considered a rookie mistake.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2013, 11:56:32 am »
+1

Adviser: A top 10 $4 card.

I think you're in for a rude awakening here. Until your engine is really humming, Advisor is like handing your opponents an invitation to bypass all your best cards each shuffle. In fact, I predict that using a Stonemason to suddenly acquire a bunch of Advisors in the midgame will be a common play.
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Schneau

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2013, 11:58:11 am »
+1

Adviser: A top 10 $4 card.

I'll be bold and say that Advisor will be a bottom half $4 card. I think it will be weak on too many boards, and will only shine in engines with heavy trashing.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2013, 12:04:05 pm »
0

Stonemason will for sure be a top $2 card just for the overpay mechanic alone.

If you're paying more than $2 for it, surely it can't be considered a $2 card. For the overpay to be any good you'll usually want to pay at least $5 for it, at which point it competes with Mountebank, Hunting Party and Wharf, or for it to be very good you'll want to pay $7 at which point it competes with King's Court. The only part of this card you can compare to Pearl Diver and Duchess is strictly the Action part.
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Schneau

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 12:06:38 pm »
0

Candlestick Maker is going to be a power $2, at least in the top 10 and maybe top 5.

Candlestick Maker + Journeyman is going to be a powerful BM combo. Candlestick Maker gives you +Buy so you can get a bunch of them, which you can then skip when you play Journeyman. The coin tokens will smooth out buys, and the +Buy of Candlestick Maker will be helpful as well. I'm not sure how many Candlestick Makers you will want, but how many you have will determine whether you want to name Copper or CM late.
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massenburger

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 12:09:19 pm »
0

Advisor is like handing your opponents an invitation to bypass all your best cards each shuffle.

How does that make it any worse than Envoy, which is a pretty good card most of the time? In addition to it's Envoy-"esque" properties, you get +1 action, and the on-buy bonus.

EDIT: no on-buy bonus. was reading the summary wrong.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 12:14:45 pm by massenburger »
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brokoli

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 12:10:08 pm »
0

I agree that Stonemason will be a top 3 $2 card, and its on-play effect will be underrated : at the end of the game, it will be excellent for greening and 3 pile ending

Plaza will be a strong $4 village, better than Mining Village, but not as good as Wandering Minstrel or Worker's Village
I can't agree because now I think mining village is the best $4 village, and wandering + worker are overrated.
But otherwise, I think plaza will be very good too. Maybe the best.
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AJD

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2013, 12:11:35 pm »
0

Advisor is like handing your opponents an invitation to bypass all your best cards each shuffle.

How does that make it any worse than Envoy, which is a pretty good card most of the time? In addition to it's Envoy-"esque" properties, you get +1 action, and the on-buy bonus.

Advisor doesn't have an on-buy bonus.
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Schneau

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2013, 12:11:41 pm »
0

Advisor is like handing your opponents an invitation to bypass all your best cards each shuffle.

How does that make it any worse than Envoy, which is a pretty good card most of the time? In addition to it's Envoy-"esque" properties, you get +1 action, and the on-buy bonus.

It sees 2 fewer cards, which means that unless your cards are all about the same "goodness", you will be more likely to discard a good card to keep 2 mediocre or bad cards.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2013, 12:11:52 pm »
+2

I'm with jonts on Advisor, it looks strong to me. Early cycling makes a huge difference in deck speed. You can stockpile Advisors quickly using gainers or just buying them. Loves Warehouse/Cellar/Storehouse etc. Will be insane in any deck with the junk removed. It plays nicely with the other Lab variants as well. The weakness of the $5 Lab variants is usually the opportunity cost of better $5s, Advisor does not have that issue as much.
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liopoil

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2013, 12:12:03 pm »
+1

A coin token mega-turn will be the best strategy on many boards, particularly ones with candlestick maker.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2013, 12:14:43 pm »
0

Advisor is like handing your opponents an invitation to bypass all your best cards each shuffle.

How does that make it any worse than Envoy, which is a pretty good card most of the time? In addition to it's Envoy-"esque" properties, you get +1 action, and the on-buy bonus.

What on-buy bonus?

You lose more cards per card revealed with Advisor.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2013, 12:15:12 pm »
0

It would be fun to see some massive Plaza, Counting House combo turn where you draw and discard your Coppers multiple times.  It would be one of those things that is probably not practical to set up, but still kind of neat. 

Edit: Nevermind, you can only discard one per Plaza play.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 12:36:08 pm by Witherweaver »
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massenburger

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2013, 12:17:36 pm »
0

What on-buy bonus?

My bad. Was reading the summary wrong.

You lose more cards per card revealed with Advisor.

So, really Advisor trades +2 cards for +1 action, when you compare it with Envoy. However, when you look deeper, I guess it would get worse, because in order to get up to that +4 card total that Envoy gives you, your opponent discards 2 of your cards, instead of just one. However, you're left with an extra action at the end of it, so you have 1 less card you see in your deck, but one extra action. I don't know what to think!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2013, 12:17:51 pm »
0

I predict Plaza will be a great combo with Library/Watchtower. Maybe not as great as Fishing Village, but still very good.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2013, 12:22:32 pm »
0

I predict Plaza will be a great combo with Library/Watchtower. Maybe not as great as Fishing Village, but still very good.

Couldn't it be better in some situations?  Like if you're chaining them?  Discard 3 coin, get 3 tokens, draw to 7 cards, discard, draw, etc.  With a couple other supporters you could draw your entire deck and still end up with all the coins in your hand in the end.  For a huge amount of money.

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Just a Rube

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 12:23:03 pm »
+1

Advisor is like handing your opponents an invitation to bypass all your best cards each shuffle.

How does that make it any worse than Envoy, which is a pretty good card most of the time? In addition to it's Envoy-"esque" properties, you get +1 action, and the on-buy bonus.
I expect it will play very differently from envoy. The +action makes you want to play a bunch of advisors per turn, but each time you play an advisor, you're skipping the best of the 3 cards he reveals. Envoy is less frequently played multiple times a turn, and even when it is, you're only skipping the best card out of 5. So those are two reasons why advisor is more likely to skip key cards.

Envoy lends itself to homogeneous decks (if I reveal 5 silver, I guarantee myself $8 that turn). But if I reveal 3 silver with advisor, not only do I limit myself to $4 (not bad, but obviously worse), I can't make use of my +action unless I have others in my hand. On the other hand, if I reveal a bunch of actions with Envoy, my opponent's decision will depend on whether I have actions left or not, and his guess of whether or not the actions in my hand are better than the ones I would draw. If advisor is played more often, then he has better information about what's in my hand, for him to make that decision.

One advantage advisor does have over envoy? I have a much better chance of causing my opponent to go insane from trying to out-think me.
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shMerker

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2013, 12:25:52 pm »
+1

What on-buy bonus?

My bad. Was reading the summary wrong.

You lose more cards per card revealed with Advisor.

So, really Advisor trades +2 cards for +1 action, when you compare it with Envoy. However, when you look deeper, I guess it would get worse, because in order to get up to that +4 card total that Envoy gives you, your opponent discards 2 of your cards, instead of just one. However, you're left with an extra action at the end of it, so you have 1 less card you see in your deck, but one extra action. I don't know what to think!

Advisor is actually a Scout that also sucks up your Shelters, Ruins, and Curses.

Edit: Reformatted it to be a bold prediction.
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Schneau

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Re: Bold Predictions: Guilds Edition
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2013, 12:26:44 pm »
0

I predict Plaza will be a great combo with Library/Watchtower. Maybe not as great as Fishing Village, but still very good.

Couldn't it be better in some situations?  Like if you're chaining them?  Discard 3 coin, get 3 tokens, draw to 7 cards, discard, draw, etc.  With a couple other supporters you could draw your entire deck and still end up with all the coins in your hand in the end.  For a huge amount of money.

You can only discard 1 Treasure card per play of Plaza.
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