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Author Topic: Card Photos  (Read 73637 times)

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Axxle

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2013, 12:55:00 pm »
0

but the most important question is: do these cards help to empty the supply in 3 turns? stonemason is the only one that might I think.

Baker could help, starting out with a coin token.
Merchant guild promotes a lot of buying too.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2013, 12:56:56 pm »
0

but the most important question is: do these cards help to empty the supply in 3 turns? stonemason is the only one that might I think.

Baker could help, starting out with a coin token.
Merchant guild promotes a lot of buying too.

But you can't spend the coin tokens earned from Merchant Guild until the following turn, and you'd be hard pressed to play a Merchant Guild turn 2 while amassing a meaningful number of tokens.

Well, I guess you could earn tokens from Black Market purchases and still spend them in your buy phase.  Still, won't help here though.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 12:58:17 pm by SirPeebles »
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shMerker

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2013, 12:57:36 pm »
+1

I just noticed Merchant's Guild costs $5. For a terminal copper that seems bonkers to me. The below-the-line text must be crazy powerful to warrant that but it's not something I would have guessed.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2013, 12:58:33 pm »
+2

I just noticed Merchant's Guild costs $5. For a terminal copper that seems bonkers to me. The below-the-line text must be crazy powerful to warrant that but it's not something I would have guessed.

More than any other card, Merchant's Guild has me thinking that Coin tokens must be incredibly useful.
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shMerker

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2013, 01:03:44 pm »
+2

I can imagine once you get an engine going it will be able to pile up a fair number. If you get two into play you now have 3 buys that, if all used, will mean you start your next turn with $6. I'm thinking comparisons to Bridge make sense, since Bridge has a similar effect to giving you +$1 for each buy you use. When I think about it that way it makes more sense for this to cost more than Bridge. Although it's not strictly better since the coin tokens can't be used until the next turn (barring stupid pet tricks with Black Market) but getting the bonus as coin tokens instead of cost reductions has it's own advantages.

Edit: Actually I'm thinking about this more and getting the bonus coins from MG will be tricky. If you did a traditional Native Village/Bridge combo but replaced the Bridges with Merchant's Guilds, now you have a turn with a bunch of buys that will get you a bonus comparable to the same number of bridges, but without another source of coin you'll have to use them on cheaper targets, because you can't apply the bonus to this turn.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 01:05:59 pm by shMerker »
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flowuhpowuh

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2013, 01:14:05 pm »
+7

Anyone a bit disappointed the advisor guy is actually on the right?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2013, 01:46:51 pm »
0

No VP card and no reaction, that makes me pretty sad actually.

This seems like a missed opportunity to me. Emphasis on "seems", since I wasn't involved in designing and playtesting the cards.

I wonder if Candlestick Maker would have been really overpowered with a Reaction that read, "When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this. If you do, take 2 Coin tokens."
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Axxle

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2013, 01:49:51 pm »
0

but the most important question is: do these cards help to empty the supply in 3 turns? stonemason is the only one that might I think.

Baker could help, starting out with a coin token.
Merchant guild promotes a lot of buying too.

But you can't spend the coin tokens earned from Merchant Guild until the following turn, and you'd be hard pressed to play a Merchant Guild turn 2 while amassing a meaningful number of tokens.

Well, I guess you could earn tokens from Black Market purchases and still spend them in your buy phase.  Still, won't help here though.
I misread this as three piling. Carry on.
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tlloyd

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2013, 01:58:52 pm »
0

Plaza -- simple village variant for the theme.  The Treasure discard is necessary so as not to make it superior to Bazaar.  This may be a tricky card to use optimally.  Villages want to be in engines.  Many engines will want to trash away all the Coppers; discarding the few high quality treasures in the deck would not be worth just one coin token.  But the drawback is ameliorated if you can draw the treasure back again.

Ah, this is a good point.  In a strong enough engine, you'll be able to draw back that Silver or Gold you discarded, while keeping the coin token.

Similar to Stables in that respect. Although I'm not sure Plaza and Stables would mesh well.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #84 on: June 13, 2013, 02:03:09 pm »
0

I will say this, I can already tell from looking at the cards, this will be a very good set and one of the best expansions ever. It might be the best of the 13-card expansions.

I am a bit surprised by the lack of alternate VP card, reaction, and also a curser that isn't on theme. Maybe with this being the last expansion, Donald couldn't fit everything in. He did say that a couple of cards from Guilds were put into DA. Maybe Beggar was the reaction and just couldn't fit in and so was moved to DA.

Of the card, I am looking forward to the most, it has to be Stonemason. Maybe it isn't as powerful as it looks, but on paper, it sounds pretty impressive. I am also looking forward to Baker, not so much to buy the card, but just because of how much it changes the opening of the game. I mean, that is literally a game-changing card right there.
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Grujah

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2013, 02:03:24 pm »
0

Reposting!
Masterpiece is so cool!

Merchant Guild - I think this will be awesome in giant Goons engines

Candlesticker is boring.

Advisor is Worse-than-Lab, I don't think it is good as it is engine card and opponent can easily disrupt your engine when you use it.

Soothsayer - do you draw a card too?

Plaza should really be 3, but it is finish this way. I guess it works in village+draw engines as you can discard extra coppers to have more money for worse turns.

Taxmen - better than Mine, I guess. That doesn't say much.

Stonemason - you want cheap engine parts? He's your guy!
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Witherweaver

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2013, 02:06:08 pm »
0

Plaza -- simple village variant for the theme.  The Treasure discard is necessary so as not to make it superior to Bazaar.  This may be a tricky card to use optimally.  Villages want to be in engines.  Many engines will want to trash away all the Coppers; discarding the few high quality treasures in the deck would not be worth just one coin token.  But the drawback is ameliorated if you can draw the treasure back again.

Ah, this is a good point.  In a strong enough engine, you'll be able to draw back that Silver or Gold you discarded, while keeping the coin token.

Similar to Stables in that respect. Although I'm not sure Plaza and Stables would mesh well.

Stables nets you an extra card, though, while Plaza decreases your hand size by one.  So Plaza requires a full drawing engine to support it, while Stables is itself part of that drawing engine.
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Grujah

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2013, 02:08:54 pm »
0

Masterpiece -

It would be so much better if it were 2+.

If you pay 3, you just bought a copper. Terrible.
If you pay 4, you've just bought a Silver and Copper for additional 1$. Still Terrible.
If you pay 5, you've just got 5$ over 3 cards, which is, pretty much, a Cache. And Cache sucks?
If you pay 6, you get 3 silvers and a copper. This might be worth it, but is it better than gold? I guess if you're deck is full of curses this is awesomest?


It will be awesome with Gardens and Feodum, though.
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jonts26

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2013, 02:10:31 pm »
+6

If you pay 5, you've just got 5$ over 3 cards, which is, pretty much, a Cache. And Cache sucks?

You take that back!
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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2013, 02:14:28 pm »
0

so, are you allowed to overpay by 0 for stonemason or not?
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tlloyd

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #90 on: June 13, 2013, 02:26:16 pm »
0

Plaza -- simple village variant for the theme.  The Treasure discard is necessary so as not to make it superior to Bazaar.  This may be a tricky card to use optimally.  Villages want to be in engines.  Many engines will want to trash away all the Coppers; discarding the few high quality treasures in the deck would not be worth just one coin token.  But the drawback is ameliorated if you can draw the treasure back again.

Ah, this is a good point.  In a strong enough engine, you'll be able to draw back that Silver or Gold you discarded, while keeping the coin token.

Similar to Stables in that respect. Although I'm not sure Plaza and Stables would mesh well.

Stables nets you an extra card, though, while Plaza decreases your hand size by one.  So Plaza requires a full drawing engine to support it, while Stables is itself part of that drawing engine.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting the cards do work well together? Certainly they have complimentary effects, but as they both rely on discarding the same resource (treasure cards), they have a fair amount of anti-synergy. Or was your comment in response to my suggestion that the cards are similar? Obviously they do different things (as you said, they have nearly opposite effects), but they are similar in the respect that they become much much better once you can reliably draw your deck. Your point is well taken that Stables actually contributes to that goal much more directly, whereas Plaza provides other benefits (actions, coin smoothing). I guess the point then is that Stables is a better single-card engine while Plaza is a better component for a wide variety of multi-card engines.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #91 on: June 13, 2013, 02:37:25 pm »
0

Plaza -- simple village variant for the theme.  The Treasure discard is necessary so as not to make it superior to Bazaar.  This may be a tricky card to use optimally.  Villages want to be in engines.  Many engines will want to trash away all the Coppers; discarding the few high quality treasures in the deck would not be worth just one coin token.  But the drawback is ameliorated if you can draw the treasure back again.

Ah, this is a good point.  In a strong enough engine, you'll be able to draw back that Silver or Gold you discarded, while keeping the coin token.

Similar to Stables in that respect. Although I'm not sure Plaza and Stables would mesh well.

Stables nets you an extra card, though, while Plaza decreases your hand size by one.  So Plaza requires a full drawing engine to support it, while Stables is itself part of that drawing engine.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting the cards do work well together? Certainly they have complimentary effects, but as they both rely on discarding the same resource (treasure cards), they have a fair amount of anti-synergy. Or was your comment in response to my suggestion that the cards are similar? Obviously they do different things (as you said, they have nearly opposite effects), but they are similar in the respect that they become much much better once you can reliably draw your deck. Your point is well taken that Stables actually contributes to that goal much more directly, whereas Plaza provides other benefits (actions, coin smoothing). I guess the point then is that Stables is a better single-card engine while Plaza is a better component for a wide variety of multi-card engines.

The part about Stables contributing to the deck drawing.  So yes they are similar that when you can draw your deck the "downside" is eliminated, but I think Stables is going to do this much more often since it's a component of the engine itself.  So I think they'll have different functional feels when you play them
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werothegreat

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #92 on: June 13, 2013, 02:39:01 pm »
+1

I realize this might be asking too much, but could someone scan the cards so that we have a better, flat image of them for use in the wiki?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #93 on: June 13, 2013, 02:43:34 pm »
+5

<-Starts writing post guessing there will be... 9 new replies by the time he is finished.
Ok, cards!
Quote
Candlestick Maker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +1 Buy. Take a Coin token.
I suspect this will be pretty strong, mostly because I think tokens will be strong. Let's see, how about just rushing these? I am probably emptying them, mmm, some time around turn 8. Then every 4 turns, I am gaining 10 tokens. Uh, this seems to be roughly on par with purely basic Big Money - key is to just hold off on buying provinces until you blitz them at the end. By the way, while this strategy sucks, the point on token spendage is probably pretty good - definitely don't spend them to get the better green until very late - your last shuffle really. So but ok, that strategy is terrible, I grant, but I think it shows that probably just about any deck can use this, well, not terminal draw BM, but it should be really good in both slogs and engines; this is somewhat strange, as those seem like opposite strategies. In engines, it's mostly a non-terminal copper-with-a-buy, plus a bonus, which isn't great but not terrible by any means. Actually, I bet this is best in slogs. Also good with e.g. minion.

Oh, and I'm taking longer to write this than I thought - now guessing 15 new replies before I post it.
Quote
Stonemason
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
Trash a card from your hand. Gain 2 cards each costing less than it.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, gain 2 Action cards each costing the amount you overpaid.
I assume you can overpay $0, based on what Donald said about how the overpay effects stack. If you have something like Haggler in play, and you buy an overpay card, you first choose whether to trigger overpay, then you choose what order to resolve the on-buy effects, and you only choose how much to overpay when you go to resolve the overpay effect. I dunno, seems to imply 0 as a possibility. Anyway, develop is what comes to mind for the play effect. This is cheaper, but doesn't top deck (well, this is a plus if you use it to gain green), and both cards have to be cheaper. Although they don't have to be exactly $1 off. Trashes copper just as well, but sucks at trashing estates, unless for some reason you really want 0-cost cards. Actually, that might make it non-terrible in slogs, turn your estates into 2 coppers? Mmmm, seems pretty marginal even then. So I would guess pretty weak. The on-buy, well it might be pretty good. If I get $7, do I want 2 fives? Probably yeah, even if I have to take this. I suspect the on-buy will be by far the biggest use, very dependent on the other actions on the board, and then this at least trashes coppers for your engine and has *some* utility later, or can be trashed.
Also, all these on-buy combo with trader and watchtower, just throwing that out there.

Quote
Doctor
Types: Action
Cost: $3+
Name a card. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Trash the matches. Put the rest back on top in any order.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, look at the top card of your deck; trash it, discard it, or put it back.
As I said in the previews, I think this will be a VERY strong early trasher, on-buy pretty marginal.

Quote
Masterpiece
Types: Treasure
Cost: $3+
Worth $1.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, gain a Silver per $1 you overpaid.
Ah, very interesting. For 3, it's copper and terrible. Slogs will buy it even on $4. At 5 it's similar to cache but less spread... which makes it... uh, a tiny bit worse, since you generally do less with silver than gold, and there's less possibility of getting big benefit out of it than cache via dealing with the coppers? At 6+ that is a lot of silver, pretty good for money decks. So... good for slogs always, really good in non-mirror, decent-ish for BM, particularly BM-draw... Good-ish card overall, but not spectacular.

Quote
Advisor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. The player to your left chooses one of them. Discard that card. Put the other cards into your hand.
So... quite good? Early on, it is likely to be a peddler which cycles you rather a lot. Good. And later on, only gets better? Well, but it can make your best cards miss your reshuffle, essentially, which is potentially a very steep price, worse than I think a lot of people realize. Which means you want to have relatively even distribution of cards. Also bad if you have heavy green. So terrible in slogs, quite good for engines, not great for money, though not *terrible* there. Probably good with e.g. silver flooder-BM. So not just a blow-me-away or a build-around so much, but very good in the right spots.

Quote
Herald
Types: Action
Cost: $4+
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an Action, play it.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.
We saw this already, too. I think I've cooled a little since then, but I still think it's a bit above-average for a 4.

Quote
Plaza
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +2 Actions. You may discard a Treasure card. If you do, take a Coin token.
The village. This will be strong - I guess it's the 2nd-best 4-cost village after Wandering Minstrel. Actually might take this over Bazaar sometimes, too. Really strong, but not at all in danger of being broken. Nice.

Quote
Taxman
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
You may trash a Treasure from your hand. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a copy of it (or reveals a hand without it). Gain a Treasure card costing up to $3 more than the trashed card, putting it on top of your deck.
So, it's a cross between mine and cutpurse. Interesting. Delayed compared to mine, which it has to be for comparison, and you also miss (probably) at least $2 in buying power compared to mine this hand. Wonder how well it works with fool's gold. Well, I'm very unlikely to want it except for early, so the question is, how good is it early? Drawing it with 3 copper would be the worst, unless there's a good 2-cost. With 4, you can still buy a 3, and with 2 or fewer, your other hand is quite good and you weren't likely to buy much this turn anyway. So, solid but not great as an opener, progressively worse the longer you go. Well, and probably good for BM no draw mirrors. The attack has to be reasonably effective.

Quote
Baker
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Take a Coin token.

Setup: Each player takes a Coin token.
Saw this as well, I am guessing middling, setup rule relatively important.

Quote
Butcher
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Take 2 Coin tokens. You may trash a card from your hand and then pay any number of Coin tokens. If you did trash a card, gain a card with a cost of up to the cost of the trashed card plus the number of Coin tokens you paid.
And we saw this, it should be strong but not strong-as-related-to-other-5s. Average-ish as a 5.

Quote
Journeyman
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Name a card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal 3 cards that are not the named card. Put those cards into your hand and discard the rest.
Okay, this is the last of them we've seen, yeah? Like I said, a little better than catacombs. Actually probably a little better than I thought even - it's really good early.

Quote
Merchant Guild
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, take a Coin token.
Okay, so very interesting. This card just seems pretty weak, and I wonder if it couldn't have costed 4. Well, I am sure Donald and his playtesters know what they're doing, so I guess not. But I pointed out at some point that woodcutter that generates a coin (not coin token, like just an extra coin for your pool) is almost just the same as bridge, a little better because you get benefit out of buying free stuff and there isn't anything equivalent to the cost-0-floor, a little worse if there's cost-restricted gaining to chain with. This is similar to that, but gives a token instead of the coin-to-spend now, and it gives you a whole $1 less. Well, the token has pros, you can spend that whenever, and you do get it on the first buy, but you also can't spend it NOW. So this just looks weak. But okay, can you get lots of these and do something crazy? Well, maybe, but it will be hard to manage that, as they're terminal and don't help that much in keeping your money high. They also promote you buying cards, which doesn't help to keep being able to play multiples of these. I bet this is weak, as I just am going to want to do things better on 5 (oh, and note that bridge isn't a power 4), but might be good with really strong trashing, where you can just buy some copper and retrash them later.

Quote
Soothsayer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Curse. Each player who did draws a card.

Seems really strong at first blush. Well, what other cards draw things for your opponent? Council Room, and I would guess that this effect is... usually worse, but relatively often much better? Governor, and that gives you a double lab, which is... probably also better generally. So, but I guess this usually depends on the trashing. If the trashing is decent, this will be pretty bad, but with no trashing, this can be dominant. I think I like this.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand, the correct number was 10, 10 new replies.

CG19

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #94 on: June 13, 2013, 02:44:23 pm »
+2

I think Stonemason is a very neat card. It has a great interaction with Border Village too. Buy BV -> gain Duchy. Trash BV with Stonemason -> gain 2 Duchies. So good.

AND, pay $8 for Stonemason -> gain 2 Border Villages -> gain 2 Duchies. THEN trash those 2 BVs for 4 Duchies.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 02:45:47 pm by CG19 »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #95 on: June 13, 2013, 02:47:58 pm »
+1

Masterpiece -

It would be so much better if it were 2+.

If you pay 3, you just bought a copper. Terrible.
If you pay 4, you've just bought a Silver and Copper for additional 1$. Still Terrible.
If you pay 5, you've just got 5$ over 3 cards, which is, pretty much, a Cache. And Cache sucks?
If you pay 6, you get 3 silvers and a copper. This might be worth it, but is it better than gold? I guess if you're deck is full of curses this is awesomest?


It will be awesome with Gardens and Feodum, though.
What card wouldn't be a lot better if you made it cheaper? Well, there are some, but not many.

If it cost 2, then for...
2 it's a copper, sucks.
3 it's a silver and copper, usually sucks.
4 it's 2 silvers and a copper. VERY good.
5 it's 3 silvers and a copper. Also quite good.
6 it's 4 silvers and a copper. Really good.
...

It's just too much.

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #96 on: June 13, 2013, 03:02:03 pm »
+1

Masterpiece -

It would be so much better if it were 2+.
What card wouldn't be a lot better if you made it cheaper? Well, there are some, but not many.

Border Village. Maybe Remodel?
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Just a Rube

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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #97 on: June 13, 2013, 03:04:41 pm »
+1

Masterpiece -

It would be so much better if it were 2+.
What card wouldn't be a lot better if you made it cheaper? Well, there are some, but not many.

Border Village. Maybe Remodel?
Rats.
And not just remodel, but many cards of that type (e.g. graverobber)
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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #98 on: June 13, 2013, 03:07:29 pm »
+15

I'm thoroughly disappointed that Masterpiece is a Treasure card--No chance for a KC Masterpiece.
 
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Re: Card Photos
« Reply #99 on: June 13, 2013, 03:14:54 pm »
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