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Author Topic: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator  (Read 5030 times)

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Geronimoo

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Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« on: October 20, 2011, 04:51:44 pm »
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All Hinterland cards have been implemented in my simulator. You should upgrade automatically.

http://dominionsimulator.wordpress.com/

I added new bots to show of some of the cooler Hinterland interactions. Check these out:

  • Scheme/Sea Hag which is slightly better than Sea Hag alone
  • Fool's Gold/Council Room which is very very dirty
  • Tunnel/Embassy is a bit silly, but also a bit broken
  • Duchess/Duke for the perfect couple
  • Develop/Ill-Gotten Gains to Develop into Caravan+Gold
  • Torturer/Border Villag was a little too obvious
  • Ill-Gotten Gains/Gardens to frustrate and crush unsuspecting opponents
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Karrow

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 11:23:49 am »
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First, thanks for the simulator.  It's very helpful.

I saw the the question on your site for suggestions on how to optimize play rules.  I say don't optimize them, let us choose them.

I don't see much choice if you want to keep going further with the simulator.  I'm guessing you've already thought of it.  Break it into the three game phases; Action Rules, Buy Rules, and Cleanup Rules.  But obviously that's where it gets tough.  There are so many choices that could come up.

Action rules could be just like the buy rules.
Play XXXXX
  Play condition if XXXXXX
  Play choices XXXXXX

Buy phase could also use play rules for things like Loan, HoP, Ill-Gotten.

Cleanup play rules would be pretty limited, mostly for cards with top-decking options.

Then the simulator would be a full strategy simulator where we can tweak with the best way to play cards.  I don't know if that's where you want to go with it, or if you have the time to do it.  I know I certainly don't have the spare time to create something like that.  So I thank you the work you have done.  Even as is, the simulator is an amazing tool.
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DG

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 02:18:00 pm »
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If you'd like a play rule suggestion: increase the priority of the spice trader when there is a copper in hand so that it gets played before terminal actions.
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rspeer

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 03:31:46 pm »
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You sure plowed through implementing those cards!

I think the next Simulation Challenge should be to come up with something -- anything -- that beats double Jack of All Trades in a Province game. (And double-Jack should be one of the prepackaged strategies, too, seeing as how it's nearly unstoppable.)
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Karrow

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 05:09:01 pm »
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You sure plowed through implementing those cards!

I think the next Simulation Challenge should be to come up with something -- anything -- that beats double Jack of All Trades in a Province game. (And double-Jack should be one of the prepackaged strategies, too, seeing as how it's nearly unstoppable.)

You'd need a bit of restrictions, non-province buys can win like Duchess/Duke, Workshop/Gardens, or Ill-got/Gardens.  Fool's gold/Council Room crushes it.  For single cards Witch, Young Witch, Wharf, & Masquerade still win.
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rspeer

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2011, 05:42:50 pm »
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Good points there.

I'm surprised by IGG/Gardens being on the list. I know it's good, but it seems like it couldn't run out three piles fast enough against a Province machine like JoaT, especially when JoaT can trash the curses. I'll have to try it out.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 07:12:01 pm »
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I'm surprised by IGG/Gardens being on the list. I know it's good, but it seems like it couldn't run out three piles fast enough against a Province machine like JoaT, especially when JoaT can trash the curses. I'll have to try it out.
IGG, curse, and gardens are 3 piles. It's very easy to generate $5 with IGGs since you use them to gain in-hand coppers. And even though Jack can trash the curses, it is still slowed by them.
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DG

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2011, 10:43:00 pm »
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Scheme isn't working with the wharf, as in not putting any action on top of the deck. Scheme works with the caravan, putting the scheme on top of the deck. In both cases it should presumably ignore the duration card on the turn it is played and act on the duration card on the following turn (when it cleaned up).
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DG

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2011, 08:44:26 pm »
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Scheme in fact puts itself on top of the deck too often. If it always does that then it is mostly worthless. Perhaps you could check the deck for the best two action cards and if either of those are present then use the scheme on them, but otherwise use it on itself.
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DG

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2011, 11:39:09 am »
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I think there may be a rare counting error in the simulator involving islands. All the cards on the island mat are listed as islands at the end of game and I can't get the scores to tally.
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Epoch

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2011, 05:35:03 pm »
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IGG, curse, and gardens are 3 piles. It's very easy to generate $5 with IGGs since you use them to gain in-hand coppers. And even though Jack can trash the curses, it is still slowed by them.

However, this bot, which basically says, "Buy 3 Jack of All Trades, buy Gardens, and buy Coppers," utterly crushes IGG/Gardens.

Code: [Select]
<player name="Jack of all Trades/Gardens" author="Computer" description="This bot has been generated by the computer without any optimization. XXXXIt just buys a single Action card and money">
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Generated"/>
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
   <buy name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Jack_of_all_Trades">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Jack_of_all_Trades"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="3.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gardens"/>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
   <buy name="Copper"/>
</player>
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DG

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 06:39:46 pm »
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It seems difficult to force hagglers to gain the desired cards. I've been able to get some success with clauses such as "buy hunting party if available $ < 5" but these are by no means foolproof. I tried using the number of buys but I'm guessing the buys are not decremented until after the card is gained. I've also been unable to persuade the haggler to gain vp cards.

I suspect the solution is to put in a new condition "is gaining a card" that will catch a lot of other conditions too. Would it be better to have a separate gain list that would default to the buy list when empty?
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Geronimoo

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2011, 02:37:56 am »
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I've released a new version that should fix all the above comments (except for the Haggler, which btw will never be able to gain VP cards because it says so on the card).

You should upgrade automatically
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DG

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2011, 06:41:53 am »
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Thanks for the changes.
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mnavratil

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2011, 10:17:19 am »
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Is there anyway to get an Ill-Gotten Gains rush startegy working optimally with the current buy rules?

A modified version of the IGG/Gardens rush MOSTLY works, but it will ALWAYS use the IGG for copper. Is there any condition to set so the IGG will only be used for enough coppers to get up to, say $5 or $8? I don't think the the $ available or counting IGGs in play is quite right.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2011, 10:23:42 am »
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Is there anyway to get an Ill-Gotten Gains rush startegy working optimally with the current buy rules?

A modified version of the IGG/Gardens rush MOSTLY works, but it will ALWAYS use the IGG for copper. Is there any condition to set so the IGG will only be used for enough coppers to get up to, say $5 or $8? I don't think the the $ available or counting IGGs in play is quite right.
That IS the optimal strategy for the rush.

mnavratil

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2011, 10:30:06 am »
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Well, that's kind of what I was trying to test (the always copper versus conditional copper). I mean, an IGG in the hand can still be still worth $2, so I assumed not clogging early has a higher probability of picking up a province or 2 before all those coppers REALLY slow things down. However, perhaps this is already cut and dry?

EDIT: Just so we're clear I am talking about trying to setup an IGG/Duchy rush, NOT IGG/Gardens
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 10:32:39 am by mnavratil »
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Geronimoo

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2011, 10:54:41 am »
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Here are Ill-Gotten Gains's play rules:
http://dominionsimulator.wordpress.com/play-rules/hinterlands/ill-gotten-gains/

I've tested the IGG-Duchy rush and those play rules are too conservative. When I remove the "wait until greening stage to gain Coppers" its performance goes way up.

I will release as soon as possible
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Copernicus

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Re: Hinterlands now available in Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2011, 02:15:29 pm »
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Scheme is currently never returning itself, even if it was the only card played.

What Scheme really needs is return rules, but that might be too complicated (i.e. return 1 village and 1 torturer).  It also doesn't have a high priority on Golem.

And as a side note, the simulator didn't play King's Court as a blank, preventing it from being returned with Scheme.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 05:17:49 pm by Copernicus »
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