Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: How Guilds affects existing... Things  (Read 3174 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

StrongRhino

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 468
  • Shuffle iT Username: StrongRhino
  • Respect: +247
    • View Profile
How Guilds affects existing... Things
« on: June 07, 2013, 05:34:16 pm »
0

Mostly cards. For example, steward gets a lot better, chapel gets a lot better (every trasher seemingly gets a lot better), saboteur has a bunch more interesting interactions, scout is now the best card in the game....

But also other stuff - the simulators are going to have  lot of trouble, I think. Play rules are really complicated on a lot of stuff now. When do I trash stuff for the for-trash benefits? When do I cash my hermit in for a madman? When do I not play something? Which squire option do I take? When do I play poor house? What the heck am I doing with my graverobber? On and on, it seems. Which, hey, is sort of cool, because it means that the set is shaping up to be a lot more tactical than the ones that came before.
Pretty much this, but guilds.
Coin tokens I expect will be complicated for sims.
What cards get better? Worse?
Personally I think TfB that cares about cost is a double edged sword with overpay cards, you don't get as much out of it as you payed for it, but if you bought it for the buy ability at least you get something for getting rid of it.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9630
    • View Profile
Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 06:04:49 pm »
0

I think it's a little too early to say right now.  There hasn't been anything too game-changey in terms of card interactions.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 06:21:37 pm »
+1

I suspect that coin tokens will make the more cost effective cards better. Whilst you might always buy a catacombs ahead of a smithy with a 5 coin hand you not might want to spend a token with a 4 coin hand. Tokens might also bring expensive power cards into the game sooner since they can be devastatingly effective despite their high cost.
Logged

Wingnut

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 175
  • Respect: +75
    • View Profile
Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 06:32:57 pm »
0

I agree that power cards will likely be in the game sooner in a lot of circumstances. Any good engine board with Baker and Border Village involved looks absolutely frightening. It would certainly seem we are delving further and further into engine building and further and further away from BM deck competing well.
Logged

jomini

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1060
  • Respect: +768
    • View Profile
Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 11:54:17 am »
0

A few things I predict:
1. Coin tokens will significantly decrease the lag for heavy deck thinning. Normally if you open Chapel/X or Steward/X you have maybe one shot to hit 5/6 early and then you wait and recover with silver. With something that gives coins, even if it is just one coin like Baker, you can build up to a 6 or 7 really quick. Any non-terminal coin gain will be quite strong for heavy trash openings. Even with terminals, any village will let you skip the "rebuild your economy" and go straight for expensive cards and have optimal use of cash.

2. Overpay will enable a lot of quick deck transitions. Right now you hit your big engine tick and you can, at best, buy the components you can support. Mint and Forge sometimes let you go from a bulky unreliable engine to a fine tuned slim engine, normally though there aren't huge transitions. Doctor and Herald both can have major impacts on an engine deck that buys them for a lot (e.g. 7-8) - Doc can thrash through any coppers/estates in the draw deck (particularly strong if you use a discarder like Hamlet or Cellar) and Herald can allow you to do something like like buy a Village, Smithy, and Herald for 6 and reliably set up big deck. Both are also great and rapidly setting up a megaturn with a single big buy (e.g.  Kc/Bridge means Doc can hit at least 3 cards and just jack the odds of setting up Kc x2/Bridge x3, Herald can fish out all your villages and draw to draw everything with your 5 HoP).

3. Deck counting becomes that much more important. Big plays like cashing in coin or overbuying huge or particularly both are going to be very different depending on what you are about to draw. Knowing what is in the draw deck vs discard is going to decide a lot of games.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 11:55:24 am by jomini »
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3413
    • View Profile
Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 01:12:47 pm »
0

Coins will change things the most I think.

Overpaying is fun, but it doesn't seem more than a cute tactic you can only pull off every once and a while. With Doctor, by the time you can spend a decent amount on it, you'll have good cards mixed in with your bad. With Butcher, overpaying automatically means you have at least $5 and those are often best spent on a $5+ card anyway.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Just a Rube

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 197
  • Respect: +385
    • View Profile
Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 03:25:32 pm »
0

Coins will change things the most I think.

Overpaying is fun, but it doesn't seem more than a cute tactic you can only pull off every once and a while. With Doctor, by the time you can spend a decent amount on it, you'll have good cards mixed in with your bad. With Butcher, overpaying automatically means you have at least $5 and those are often best spent on a $5+ card anyway.
I'm assuming you mean Herald instead of Butcher there.

Just spouting off:
Coins will probably be better for either decks that want virtual coin (e.g. scrying pool, minion) or decks that tend to stall towards the end (because you can store up coin tokens early while you're still cycling and producing $8+ normally, then use the coin tokens to help bump up those later $6-7 hands near the end, so as to finish off the pile). I'm really not sold on using them as a megaturn enabler, at least judging by the cards we already saw; you'd have to play baker 8 times per province, and that just seems too slow.

Overspending is harder to evaluate, because it depends so much on what the overspending does; while we can guess that there may be some card that you can overspend to get coin tokens, we don't really know what the other options look like. Since it's on-buy rather than on-gain, that limits the options. That said, I can't help but wonder if early game coin boosters like Baron will get better; Doctor seems like it wants to be overpaid for early if at all. At the same time, earlier is harder to afford the big spending (both in absolute cost and opportunity cost). Herald obviously likes things like KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge, but is worse than most villages in traditional engines. And while you can buy it to set-up Treasure Map turns more easily (both to cash them in and to match up the 4 gold with a +buy), you probably don't want to play it while you have treasure maps in your deck, unless you want to risk it trashing them for you.

Journeyman seems like a solid big money card, but it can also make engines work with much less trashing. At the same time, it's much more vulnerable to ruins than it is to curses, whether you want to trash them or skip them.
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3349
    • View Profile
Re: How Guilds affects existing... Things
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2013, 05:02:08 pm »
+1

In a somewhat imprecise way, I think you could think of overpaying as being like a one shot card. When you overpay $5 for a Herald, roughly what you get is a Herald (no overpay), and a card which says: +1 action, put any card from your discard pile into your hand, trash this, when you gain it put it on your deck. That's not too bad a one shot actually. Not great, but it combos with itself, and that's exactly what overpaying for Herald does. Somehow I find it easier to think of this effect as a card like that.

(Have I thrown enough uses of words like "roughly" and "vaguely" into this post that people won't edge case it?...)
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.091 seconds with 21 queries.