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Author Topic: Preview #5: Herald  (Read 11694 times)

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brokoli

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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2013, 10:39:18 am »
+2

Also, Where is Casimir III ?
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2013, 10:39:38 am »
0

So since overpay happens on buy, not on gain, you can't overpay to topdeck itself.  On the other hand, you could overpay to topdeck a Talisman'd copy, or to topdeck anything gained off of Haggler.

Also, Throne Room and Golem just gained some company in forcing us to play Actions.  This time with less choice than ever.  Herald could be a dangerous card in some decks.

So, re: talisman: overpay and talisman's effect both occur at "when you buy", so you choose which to do first.  If you choose overpay first, you are now not buying a card costing $4 or less, so talisman's effect does not come into play.  So make sure you choose to talisman first.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2013, 10:39:54 am »
0

I thought the first couple of preview cards were good. Restrained but interesting.

But now having seen all five of the preview cards I find it hard not to be disappointed. Not sure if anyone else is feeling this way (?) but based on what I've seen in the previews Guilds seems to be variations on themes that have already been well explored.

Previously when DXV was talking about not doing any more expansions he seemed to imply there wasn't much left that could be added.... and I have to admit I found it hard to accept that, especially in the context of the amazing complexity and variety of Dark Ages.... but looking at these previews it does feel like the well may have been tapped out....

Also what is going on with the art in this set? Feels like Guilds may be a low water mark both in terms of card interest and in terms of visual appeal.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2013, 10:40:34 am »
0

Finally, something that ACTUALLY combos with Scout.

EDIT, well, Wandering Minstrel is probably better.  Maybe.

Wandering Minstrel is alright, I would much rather have Cartographer.  The WM only sees 3 cards and since Herald draws first, you want 2/3 of your deck to be action.  Cartographer only needs to find 1 action card in 5 as you can order/discard as you please.  Much more reliable and easy to set up imo.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2013, 10:41:44 am »
0

Look like it'll be good with Apothecary. Pick up junking coppers and Potion, play all the actions before you play the Apothecary.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2013, 10:42:34 am »
+5

So, re: talisman: overpay and talisman's effect both occur at "when you buy", so you choose which to do first.  If you choose overpay first, you are now not buying a card costing $4 or less, so talisman's effect does not come into play.  So make sure you choose to talisman first.

Disagree. Herald still costs $4, even if you overpay.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2013, 10:43:10 am »
0

So since overpay happens on buy, not on gain, you can't overpay to topdeck itself.  On the other hand, you could overpay to topdeck a Talisman'd copy, or to topdeck anything gained off of Haggler.

Also, Throne Room and Golem just gained some company in forcing us to play Actions.  This time with less choice than ever.  Herald could be a dangerous card in some decks.

So, re: talisman: overpay and talisman's effect both occur at "when you buy", so you choose which to do first.  If you choose overpay first, you are now not buying a card costing $4 or less, so talisman's effect does not come into play.  So make sure you choose to talisman first.

I don't believe this is the case.  From how I believe I've heard it described, this card costs 4.  Overpaying does not change its cost.  You're just allowed to spend money for something else to happen.  I think the + is not actually changing the cost of the card, just reminding you that you can spend more money.  Unlike Peddler, which explicitly states its cost is different.

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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2013, 10:44:23 am »
0

It's interesting that Herald doesn't give any other on-play benefit aside from maybe playing a free action, if two cards down happens to be an action.  Even Scheme will at least topdeck itself over and over until it's finally useful.  Herald just peeks at a single card, and if it's not an action, well, see you next shuffle.  At least Throne Room has your full hand as a search space.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2013, 10:44:43 am »
0

smells like a trap/overrated card to me.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2013, 10:45:48 am »
+2

It's interesting that Herald doesn't give any other on-play benefit aside from maybe playing a free action, if two cards down happens to be an action.  Even Scheme will at least topdeck itself over and over until it's finally useful.  Herald just peeks at a single card, and if it's not an action, well, see you next shuffle.  At least Throne Room has your full hand as a search space.

Well, it's a free card and a free action. Menagerie doesn't do anything for you unless you can trigger it either.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2013, 10:46:19 am »
0

This is to Golem as Wishing Well is to Journeyman... kinda.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2013, 10:46:49 am »
+1

It also lets you look at your top card.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2013, 10:47:40 am »
0

At first when I read it, it sounded beyond awesome to me. But, upon analysis, I realize it is a $4 Village with an overpay effect. Well people, here's our village in a disguise to make it not look like a village. However, in engines, holy freakin cow! The overpay effect if used correctly can create some crazy interactions.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2013, 10:47:51 am »
0

smells like a trap/overrated card to me.

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I donít know how often I have duplicate cards.  Probably situational?

Remeber what was said about Menagerie way back in the day....

I think card will be applicable more often than not.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2013, 10:48:01 am »
+3

I thought the first couple of preview cards were good. Restrained but interesting.

But now having seen all five of the preview cards I find it hard not to be disappointed. Not sure if anyone else is feeling this way (?) but based on what I've seen in the previews Guilds seems to be variations on themes that have already been well explored.

Previously when DXV was talking about not doing any more expansions he seemed to imply there wasn't much left that could be added.... and I have to admit I found it hard to accept that, especially in the context of the amazing complexity and variety of Dark Ages.... but looking at these previews it does feel like the well may have been tapped out....

Also what is going on with the art in this set? Feels like Guilds may be a low water mark both in terms of card interest and in terms of visual appeal.

So, a couple of things here. First, I know exactly what you mean. However, there are quite a few reasons I'm still looking forward to playing Guilds.

1. I expect a lot of these cards to play in a very unique way, even if they don't seem that unique when you first look at them. Butcher especially. It's a set with a lot of subtle interactions and strategy, I believe.
2. I expect the set to have a Victory card and at least one Attack card, which will help jazz it up. If we're lucky, we'll get a Treasure or a Reaction as well.
3. Dark Ages really raised the bar for what is considered an interesting Dominion card. If we'd seen these before Dark Ages, they might look more exciting.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2013, 10:48:42 am »
0

I thought the first couple of preview cards were good. Restrained but interesting.

But now having seen all five of the preview cards I find it hard not to be disappointed. Not sure if anyone else is feeling this way (?) but based on what I've seen in the previews Guilds seems to be variations on themes that have already been well explored.

Previously when DXV was talking about not doing any more expansions he seemed to imply there wasn't much left that could be added.... and I have to admit I found it hard to accept that, especially in the context of the amazing complexity and variety of Dark Ages.... but looking at these previews it does feel like the well may have been tapped out....

Also what is going on with the art in this set? Feels like Guilds may be a low water mark both in terms of card interest and in terms of visual appeal.

Guilds is fine. Not every expansion can be the best  :)

Seriously, I can understand your opinion. Most cards are just variations (but crazy and funny variations) of other cards, but at some point, you can't always create more exotic cards.

To the card: Yes, it might be a trap, but it's great in an action deck without much card draw (and actions, too)
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2013, 10:49:52 am »
+1

Wow, I love this card and this time I approve the art and the name. So, this might be my favourite card from the set so far.

The main effect is sort of a Throne Room, but without playing the Action twice, it adds a cantrip effect to it. So, it's effect is probably not so strong, but at least it's never a dead card (unless you draw it dead of course). So, the power level might be similar. It combos nice with Apothecary, Cartographer and yeah even Scout. Chaining Heralds will be pretty crazy and King's Court + Herald even more because the order in resolving could get really confusing like kinging a Herald to reveal a Golem ... !?  :o  So what are action cards that really want to be played as Cantrips. I guess most attacks, probably not cursers as the games are rarely engine boards, but playing trashing attacks like Knights as cantrips could be devastating. Other than that, Bridge comes to my mind. I wonder how good a Herald+Bridge game with trashing would be. Seems really strong. Also trashers are nice as most of them are terminal, although this gets probably dangerous with mandatory trashing. It has the same problem as Golem has, you really have to be careful with a Trading Post in your deck, for example.

The overpaying is basically on-buy Scavenger and seems also very strong. With top-decking like Royal Seal you could pair cards that you buy and from your discard. In every end game (especially Colony games) it might be really good to pay $5 or more to prepare your next turn just like Inn or Mandarin can do it.

Edit: Oh yeah, Wandering Minstrel comboes probably even better with it, but you draw first and then the next card has to be an Action card, that's a bummer.

Edit: 17 new replies have been posted. Sigh.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2013, 10:50:31 am »
0

I like how this stacks.  Consider a Herald in hand and four more on the top of your deck (maybe not realistic, but just for analysis).

Play Herald for +1 action, +1 card (draw Herald), reveal Herald, play it for +1 action, +1 card (draw Herald), reveal Herald, play if for +1 action, +1 card, reveal non-action.  The end result is, what, +3 cards, +3 actions? 

Ironmonger is a pretty good card (ranked #13 of $4 cards in the most recent rankings), but doesn't really stack in the same way.  Ironmonger is more like a village in an action-heavy deck, this becomes more like a Lab plus Village. 
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2013, 10:51:59 am »
0

Well, it's a free card and a free action. Menagerie doesn't do anything for you unless you can trigger it either.

Menagerie is a fair comparison in this regard.  Maybe I'm just more used to Menagerie, so I can easily judge whether or not Menagerie will work well (e.g. defense versus discard attacks, or in conjunction with sifting and discard for benefit)

Herald will certainly have a place in dense action decks.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2013, 10:52:19 am »
+11

What is also cool about this is that you can fill your deck with Heralds and Villages and now your Village Idiot has his own Herald to let everyone know he's coming.

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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2013, 10:52:32 am »
0

combo or nombo with scrying pool?
Seems really hard to make a cantrip that wouldn't combo with SP, especially one cheaper than $5. A classic SP deck would almost certainly benefit from the speed boost of being able to buy some Heralds on early non-Potion turns. In multiplayer it can happen that you run out of SPs before anyone has enough to get their engine functioning properly, and then it will be nice to have Heralds too.

I think the only question is, rather, if SP combos with Herald! Which is to say that maybe Herald alone turns out to be so strong that SP is an unnecessary diversion.

I'm curious how these overpay cards will play with Workshop-types. Is it fantastic to gain tons of Heralds with Workshop, or does your opponent beat you with the overpay bonus despite losing the Herald split? I guess this is just another way of formulating our constant question of "Which is more 'important,' the overpay power or the Action ability?" But it's a good way, at least, I think.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 10:56:39 am by RD »
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2013, 10:52:44 am »
0

Without a little bit of deck thinning, though, Herald would be one of those cards that you have to gain a lot of with little opportunity cost, because in that case, you're just fishing for Actions to play.

An interesting Village variant. It's also like a better Wishing Well in many cases.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2013, 10:54:20 am »
0

I don't see the problems with cards being variations on other cards. It's a huge difference wether the card in the kingdom is Throne Room or King's Court, and probably will make a huge difference wether it's Butcher or Remodel. I think all the new cards (except maybe Journeyman) allow you to do things you aren't able to do now.


This might also be worth getting just for the overpay effect. Got $7 in the lategame. Buy this and topdeck money for a province.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2013, 10:55:08 am »
0

In a few kingdoms, this card will really shine.
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Re: Preview #5: Herald
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2013, 10:56:33 am »
+2

So if Herald plays a Duration card, will it stay out?  I'm thinking that there answer is no, just like Golem doesn't stay out.  Throne Room is there as a reminder that the Duration was played twice.
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